How To Bring This System Down For Good!

[Rajiv]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

JT

There isn't enough gold and silver to go around -- so I would just settle for getting all my assets out of the bank in cash.

If enough people did it -- that would bring the system down! But banks have already thought of that -- they have limits on how much cash you can get out of the bank in a day -- you can make transactions in larger amounts, but not get cash in the same amount!

Also on the corporate personhood thing -- see Poclad (Program on Corporatins Law and Democracy)

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

JT

There isn't enough gold and silver to go around

Yes there is, It just takes a higher price for all those dollars to fit, that's all.

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

JT

There isn't enough gold and silver to go around

Yes there is, It just takes a higher price for all those dollars to fit, that's all.

Talk about a Nash Freaking equilibrium!!

[Rajiv]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

If people took the money out of the banks, it would be highly deflationary. Going back on the gold standard -- also deflationary -- will have to turn to barter exchanges!

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

If people took the money out of the banks, it would be highly deflationary. Going back on the gold standard -- also deflationary -- will have to turn to barter exchanges!

No no and NO!

What do you think the governments response would be (seriously now)?

Do you doubt for a second that they wouldn't print enough money to re-liquify (JUST LIKE THEY DID LAST TIME)?

Come on, seriously after ALL we have witnessed, how can you make a claim like that!

Face it guys, the bankers ALREADY got their "debt jubilee" courtesy of the American Government and the American Tax payer. I Darn well think it's time we free OURSELVES and unilaterally impose our "J6P debt jubilee" on the elites. Fair is Fair, they did it first. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Do as I say not as I do. ... ...

Well you get the idea.

Point is they UNILATERALLY impose conditions on us while EXEMPTING themselves from these self-same rules. Had these bailouts not occurred it would not have been the end of the world, far from it. Has these bailouts not occurred the debt would HAVE been written down to market value (between 10-50 cents on the dollar) AND the lack of backstop would have ENCOURAGED banks to alter the debts to more closely match the real market value of the underlying collateral.

(Debt reduction AND Asset markdowns, both are required to balance the assets/liabilities sheets)

INSTEAD, they are attempting to preserve only the assets and destroying the production/consumption economy in the process.

If you doubt that of which I speak, look at the prior NZ real estate bubble. The bankers wanted the same policies enacted as our government has done. The government REFUSED, know what the result was???

The BANKS WERE FORCED TO RENEGOTIATE or face insolvency! The banks renegotiated, assets AND liabilities were marked down, the market dropped and prices slowly recovered back to their starting point after several years ALL ON THEIR OWN!

I'm not a market fundamentalist and don't believe that you can just "regulate yourself", but the cushion should have been placed under the REAL economy NOT FIRE while this process takes place.

The real economy is now DEAD, but FIRE is still on it's cozy Gov. and Tax Payer Subsidized cushion (with a ventilator, of course).

It's time to pull the plug and start over.

You can't PRESERVE what is DEAD. You can' work withing a political system that is NONFUNCTIONAL and NONRESPONSIVE to those NOT GETTING bailed out by it.

This is a bloodless, non-violent counter-coup, a form civil disobedience that would make Gandhi proud. (Do you think his protests were upheld in the courts, do you think his right to free assembly and right to free speech were never trampled on? Do you think that his actions were not considered "ILLEGAL". Was HE WRONG?

Not in my book. Justice is Justice, and breaking the law (as we are unable to get the laws re-written to protect our pillaging of the public purse, unlike the FIRE players) in the pursuit of justice and as an affirmation our rights as HUMAN BEINGS through NON-VIOLENT means, is not just the duty, but the moral obligation of every one who claims to be a citizen!

[newnewthing]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

JT

There isn't enough gold and silver to go around -- so I would just settle for getting all my assets out of the bank in cash.

If enough people did it -- that would bring the system down! But banks have already thought of that -- they have limits on how much cash you can get out of the bank in a day -- you can make transactions in larger amounts, but not get cash in the same amount!

Also on the corporate personhood thing -- see Poclad (Program on Corporatins Law and Democracy)

You can withdraw as much cash as you want with a few days notice. They borrow as much cash as they need from the central banks at essentially 0 interest rate. It wouldn't impact things much at all other than provide a field day from home robberies.

[cindykimlisa]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

Read this on ZH, this WOULD work. So I say go for it!

From this article

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gov...anks-permanent

"
JUST WITHDRAW ALL FAKE PAPER MONEY FROM YOUR BANK, BUY PHYSICAL GOLD, AND STOP PAYING ALL DEBTS.
And they all go away, as the fake Paper Ponzi System we live in evaporates!
Its so easy! No protests, no battles, no blood shed. Just stop playing their stupid game with their stupid fake paper/electronic money!"



Full Disclosure, yes I am, Yes I Am, YES.. I AM!

There is no better system in the world

Your comment is stupid imo

Study the system and beat it like I did and stop whining

It can be done- read the tax regs for starters

Cindy

[Rajiv]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

Don't disagree with you there.

Home robberies are also an issue if you hold physical gold or silver

See Gold Burglars Reemerge

Until her Fair Lakes-area home was burglarized last Wednesday, Oct. 7, Abdulahi Roda had not been aware of the string of burglaries that have targeted the homes of Indian-Americans across the county since the beginning of the year. But even if she had known about the incidents, she may not have been concerned for her own home.

Roda is Somalian, not Indian. But somehow, the burglars seemed to have known that her house, too, would contain large amounts of gold.

"There is some deep research that is taking place," she said.

As of Friday evening, the police public information office could not confirm that the seven burglaries that took place in the Fair Oaks area last week were connected to 20 or so burglaries that targeted families of Indian descent between January and July of this year, but Centreville resident Raman Kumar said they all fit the profile. He has been following the string of thefts since his own home was burglarized in February, and he had spoken with most of the victims of last week’s burglaries. In six of the seven incidents, two neighboring homes were broken into.

[reallife]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

Don't disagree with you there.

Home robberies are also an issue if you hold physical gold or silver

See Gold Burglars Reemerge

All the bad guys need is your Xmas card list to identify targets.....:eek:

[jtabeb]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

There is no better system in the world

Your comment is stupid imo

Study the system and beat it like I did and stop whining

It can be done- read the tax regs for starters

Cindy

Well, I personally find your response to be the paragon of intelligent discourse.


And your concern for the future of this country and the rest of the world for that matter, moves me to tears (unfortunately, not for the reasons that would leave me with a positive future outlook).

I'm happy for you that you have gotten yours but I fear that you, like many people, will find that all that they have toiled so hard for, will be worth less than they had imagined. How much less, is up to the imagination of our esteemed elites. I hope you may take comfort in your imagination of their lack of imagination. Your capacity for make-believe is quite without par in my travels here on Itulip.

My reality, however leads me to believe that a different course of events may transpire.

[oddlots]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

There is no better system in the world

Your comment is stupid imo

Study the system and beat it like I did and stop whining

It can be done- read the tax regs for starters

Cindy

The first two sentences above are contentless IMHO.

The first is pure jimgoism: if you're willing to look under the hood, there is a huge spectrum of "systems" available depending on the particular circumstances one is faced with. There's Singapore (small population, no taxes to speak of, pure free-trade model), there's Hong Kong (similar but betting on integration into a massive, highly contolled, "communist" society it wishes to bridge to... Cuba (repressive, "egalitarian," inefficient but somehow apparently better at providing basic dignity than say... Columbia ("democratic," free press, but "unofficially" very repressive) ... (The above is a sketch to make a point, so please don't get hung up on it.) There's also Italy (basket case), Sweden (would be laughing at your bank travails if there wasn't that problem in Eastern Europe) etc....

While I appreciate a concentration on root issues that might provide a practical guide to negotiating the smorgasbord above, the USA / Capitalism uber alles ain't it.

"Capitalism" as currently practiced in the OECD has serious problems of internal consistency (you know, which lies did I tell to who?) much less external consistency (can I make payroll in the absence of the loosest credit markets the world has ever seen?)

Simply saying it is the best we can do ain't aiming high enough, despite how well it might have treated you of late. How are you going to earn any return on your "savings" so that they'll do you any good? You just can't escape your society's trajectory and so can't, ultimately, and in a beyond-necessities way, escape community.

Re: tax. Thanks for the tip on taxes. Yet another reason to try and hold the current, wildly senseless and unjust system to account.

[Master Shake]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

Do you want to bring the damn system down or what?

Are you familiar with the expression, "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't?"

[sunskyfan]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

People don't lose rights simply because they come together to act as one legally recognized unit. That goes for Microsoft and Goldman Sachs as much as it does for the AFL-CIO or the AARP. Even the Democratic Party is a corporation.

Now you may argue that business corporations are different because they are for-profit and that speech or other rights used to further profitability shouldn't be protected. But are corporations like the AFL-CIO and AARP not also exercising their rights in an effort to maximize the financial benefits to their members?

I think most of the arguments against corporate personhood are nothing more than a complaint that because some corporations (businesses) have rights, those corporations can't be completely steam-rolled by other corporations (organized labor, organized environmentalists, etc), and that all our 'problems' could be solved if the government (the largest corporation of all) would just make the other side shut-up.

You have hit the nail on the head. The problem in our system is that you can't have collective bargaining without equal protection. If a union collectively bargains the wages and benefits must apply to all employees. The same is true for insurance and premiums or even corporations and prices. Yes, this creates a mess but resolving that mess puts you on the road to resolving moral hazard. A keep term for our times. I predict the "Moral Hazard" will be the pivotal term in our economics and politics for the next thirty years.

[raja]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

"
JUST WITHDRAW ALL FAKE PAPER MONEY FROM YOUR BANK, BUY PHYSICAL GOLD, AND STOP PAYING ALL DEBTS.
And they all go away, as the fake Paper Ponzi System we live in evaporates!
Its so easy! No protests, no battles, no blood shed. Just stop playing their stupid game with their stupid fake paper/electronic money!"

Do we really want to bring down the system . . . or would we rather change the existing system to a better one?

ggirod, your idea of reform may be a good one, but you don't show how we can bring it about. How will you get the Politicians to do it?

IMO, what is needed is a simple program that will work with the least amount of effort and trauma, such as:

*** Boycott Big Banks ***

*** Vote Out ALL Incumbents ***

It's the Big Banks that are gambling with our money and ruining the economy -- Wells Fargo, JPMorgan, Chase, etc., and the Vampire Squid itself, Goldman Sachs :eek:. The little neighborhood bankers may not be angels, but they are not the Financial Elite Criminals perpetrating the Greatest Theft in History. Pull your money out of the Big Banks and put your money in small, local banks . . . or invest it elsewhere (gold is good . . . I'm personally long chickens .)

The Politicians make the Rules, and the Rules can restrain the Financial Elite. The People have the power over the Politicians IF they take it.

I don't recommend using shotguns and pitchforks to persuade the Politicians to do the right thing -- it's darn hard to get out bloodstains . Rather, let's use that tried and tested tool of persuasion -- FEAR.

The Politicians ran for office because they like the job -- the money, the status, the young and willing staff .
Let's take their jobs away from them . . . ALL of them.
Let's only vote in those politicians who promise to enact Congressional Reform (see here).

For this to happen, we need to spread the word. (see post #6 in this thread)

Of course, we're screwed anyway whatever happens . . . but we'll be a lot more screwed if WE don't do this (You want Debt Serfdom?). And if WE don't do this, nobody will.

(Note: When I say Vote out ALL incumbents, of course this does not include the few Congressional heroes who are standing up against the Financial Elite -- Paul, Grayson, etc.)

[Ghent12]

Re: How To Bring This System Down For Good!

(Note: When I say Vote out ALL incumbents, of course this does not include the few Congressional heroes who are standing up against the Financial Elite -- Paul, Grayson, etc.)

I agree with the sentiment, but in principle, given the choice, I would absolutely be willing to sacrifice Rep. Paul if it meant every other member of Congress was not re-elected.