Hudson: Twilight of the Gods

[doom&gloom]

Re: Entitlements are doomed!

i'm no surgeon but i'll sew your cuts up for you on the cheap, drain swollen joints, hand out drugs, take BP, etc. None of this is rocket science.

I've been thru lots of knee "scope & clean" procedures, and it is now to the point that if I do something to make one of my knees swell up, I just drain the damn thing myself. It's quite easy. Pull my own stitches when I get them too. Who wants to hassle with waiting to see a doc and paying co-pays and all for this simple stuff, let alone the time and travel involved. You could teach most HS kids to do this stuff.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Entitlements are doomed!

You could teach most HS kids to do this stuff.

I've long thought that a third of the high school curriculum should be basic nursing mixed with the science and math requirements. With the absurd cost of healthcare, the increase of self diagnoses and medication must be soaring. Why not end up with your average 18-year old knowing basic nursing instead of trig?

[doom&gloom]

Re: Entitlements are doomed!

I've long thought that a third of the high school curriculum should be basic nursing mixed with the science and math requirements. With the absurd cost of healthcare, the increase of self diagnoses and medication must be soaring. Why not end up with your average 18-year old knowing basic nursing instead of trig?

In our FDA regulated world here, with the gov't overlords of safety and security looking over everyone's shoulder, I doubt it ever happens. The US security state is just an extension of the whole medical state, where drugs that can be bought OTC in Mexico an many other places need a doctor visit and prescription here. Certainly don't want to risk any 'merikan hurting themself when a high priced doc can do the job instead. And heaven forbid that 'merikans get access to OTC painkillers.

[shiny!]

Re: Entitlements are doomed!

I've long thought that a third of the high school curriculum should be basic nursing mixed with the science and math requirements. With the absurd cost of healthcare, the increase of self diagnoses and medication must be soaring. Why not end up with your average 18-year old knowing basic nursing instead of trig?

Basic nursing and first aid, plus other life skills such as how to read a lease agreement, how to calculate compound interest, how to read and understand loan agreements and do the math involved, how to balance a budget and a checkbook, how to save money when shopping, how to live within your means without depending on credit, how to write a good resume...

Of course, this all requires decent reading comprehension and math skills, which too many students don't have.

[llanlad2]

Re: Entitlements are doomed!

Basic nursing and first aid, plus other life skills such as how to read a lease agreement, how to calculate compound interest, how to read and understand loan agreements and do the math involved, how to balance a budget and a checkbook, how to save money when shopping, how to live within your means without depending on credit, how to write a good resume...

Of course, this all requires decent reading comprehension and math skills, which too many students don't have.

Education makes no difference. Humans are much more emotional than you think. All the above only depends on people acting logically. They mostly don't. And they act in the here and now. Debts to be paid are in the future and therefore to be worried about later.

[c1ue]

Re: Entitlements are doomed!

More fun with Proposition 13. And note that this place was bought 30 years before Proposition 13 'froze' property tax levels.

$7944 divided by $85 million = 0.0093%, or more than 100 times lower than the official 1% property tax rate.

http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/20...odside-estate/

Land is a premium anywhere in the Bay Area and a prized estate in Woodside has lots of it. With nearly 100 acres (91.94 to be exact), the Flood estate has come to the market for the first time ever. James and Elizabeth Flood spent about $100,000 in 1941 for the land and the building of the main house, which is 9,000 square feet, with nine bedrooms and 8˝ bathrooms. It’s been in the same family since then and is now on the market due to Mrs. Flood’s passing in April of last year (her husband James Flood had passed away earlier). The landmark estate is comprised of 3 parcels, with trails that traverse the property and crossing a lake, reservoir, vineyard and Hudson Creek. There is also a 2 bedroom gate house and a 3 bedroom caretaker’s house on the estate. A pool, tennis court and a 3 stall barn are in place for recreational activities.

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Aerial view of the Flood estate in Woodside, on the market for the first time ever.


Besides the vast amount of land, the property has a lot of history. Being a prominent Bay Area family, the Floods hosted well known politicians and VIPs. Prior to being president, JFK had visited and the Kingston Trio played at a debutante ball for one of the daughters, according to the Wall Street Journal.

With lots of money floating around Silicon Valley, it will come as no surprise if this property is snatched up quickly, especially given the enormous amount of land. San Mateo County will be thrilled when it does change hands, since the tax bill will go up significantly. In 2011, the property tax was a mere $7,943.62.

[vt]

Re: Entitlements are doomed!

So it's a bit more than 10% compounded for 71 years.

[c1ue]

Re: Entitlements are doomed!

So it's a bit more than 10% compounded for 71 years.

I get slightly under, but not a big difference.

The point, however, is that property appreciation is far, far greater than Proposition 13 permits for tax increases.

$100,000 in 1941 was also a hell of a lot of money. It would buy more than 100 new cars or 14 houses.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Hudson: Twilight of the Gods

this doesn't make sense to me. the money used to acquire the real estate asset doesn't disappear. in fact, since much of it is borrowed, it is added to the money supply and conveyed to the seller, who doesn't burn it.

And the more money they spend, the more goods and services need to be created while essentially producing nothing.

http://www.henrygeorge.org/pcontents.htm



Explains it all. That includes who inspired the monopoly man you have there too.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Hudson: Twilight of the Gods

your mention of the cost of cobra health insurance is for me the most interesting variable. in any other developed country in the world, it wouldn't be an issue or an extra cost, because you and your family would have health care paid for in some fashion on a national basis. remove that 15k and the issues become more manageable.

what the politicians want is secondarily to be elected again, primarily to preserve their role in the politico-financial system, i.e. to go through the revolving door into a lucrative post-electoral-office position. the money that finances their campaigns comes from financial interests which want to extract as much of your income stream as possible.

i plugged your numbers into a "how much house can you afford?" calculator . with current interest rates, say 3.625% on a 30 year fixed, and a down payment of $50k [which i chose as about 20% of what you say current home values are], and annual taxes of $6500, [and, i guessed, $2000 for homeowner's insurance], it says the house value "affordable" will be between $280k and $350k.

your current home values are of course $30-100k below this. so to reach equilibrium [if mortgage rates, incomes and total taxes in absolute dollars don't change], home prices will tend to rise to that range. this will increase the amount of income going to INTEREST PAYMENTS, i.e. the rentiers, by about $. alternatively you could reach equilibrium by raising taxes to $9k, which drops the "affordable home value" to $237-307k range. i.e. home values wouldn't rise in this model, but taxes will rise by about $2500, to $9k. if you look at the change in mortgage payments without the tax rise, the interest charges will rise by about the same amount.

this is hudson's point. you can pay that money in taxes, to fund municipal services. if you choose to keep the tax rate lower, however, the home values will rise so that you end up paying the same amount, but in interest, and you thus will underfund your municipal services. the financial industry extracts rents which would otherwise be taxes paying for actual services.

Follow that up by lowering sales and income taxes. Becomes more affordable now.

[charliebrown]

Re: Hudson: Twilight of the Gods

Back in the day when parents were wise and did not live in the bubble years, like my parents, they would tell me

boy don't borrow more than 2x your salary for your house.

With my county median numbers, putting 20% down would lead to borrowing about 2.6x of your income. Seems like the how much house can you afford calculator may have a bit of housing bubble bias.

Perhaps the ultra low interest rates may encourage you to borrow more than 2x if you do the calcuation on a cash flow basis. The 2x your salaray number also has the built in assumptions of low home appreciation, stable taxes and utilities, and rising wages.

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Hudson: Twilight of the Gods

dictatorial crews have a penchant for proclaiming their citizenry unworthy . . .


This no longer is the American way. Education in particular has been demonized. California’s formerly great school system is the most visible casualty of the state’s Proposition 13, the property tax freeze enacted in 1978.

California had great universities. The elementary and high schools were never that great. My mother taught in California schools 1957-1961 and she said they were the worst in terms of student behavior , text books, everything. (Compared to Illinois, Iowa, and Colorado)

Property tax RATES are low in california, but real estate values are high.
I challenge hudson to give numbers showing that California taxes are too low over all. The state has significant sales and income taxes. The state budget is around 90 Billion/year. How high does it need to be ?


Prop 13 made it possible for many middle class people to stay in thier homes after retiring. Why shouldn't property taxes be predictable after you buy a house? Possibly, it should not have applied to apartments or commercial property.
My parents house has been under prop until 2011.
The taxes were about $1100/year on a property valued at $520k.
That seems low until you consider the house only as 1200 sq feet. So you are paying $1/sq foot-year. (new owners are paying 5X that!)

In south carolina, I am paying about $0.75/sq foot-year. The schools here have problems, but it is not primarily funding, but just the students they get.

So the Calif house was somewhat undertaxed before being sold, but the state is getting plenty now.

[Polish_Silver]

Prop 13 vs inflation

I think prop 13 allows the taxes to increase 2%/year between sales.

That is less than inflation. So over time, it does get ridiculous.

Taxes could be indexed to CPI inflation, or to median wages, I suppose.

If land values here rose to San Francisco levels, and the tax rate remained constant, I might have to move.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Hudson: Twilight of the Gods

School systems are crumbling like our roads as teachers are jettisoned on a scale not seen since the Great Depression.

Yet Wall Street strategists view this state and local budget squeeze as a godsend. As Rahm Emanuel has put matters, a crisis is too good an opportunity to waste – and the fiscal crisis gives creditors financial leverage to push through anti-labor policies and privatization grabs. The ground is being prepared for a neoliberal “cure”: cutting back pensions and health care, defaulting on pension promises to labor, and selling off the public sector, letting the new proprietors to put up tollbooths on everything from roads to schools. The new term of the moment is “rent extraction.”

http://grittv.org/2012/09/10/why-strike-ask-a-teacher/

[gwynedd1]

Re: Hudson: Twilight of the Gods

California had great universities. The elementary and high schools were never that great. My mother taught in California schools 1957-1961 and she said they were the worst in terms of student behavior , text books, everything. (Compared to Illinois, Iowa, and Colorado)

Property tax RATES are low in california, but real estate values are high.
I challenge hudson to give numbers showing that California taxes are too low over all. The state has significant sales and income taxes. The state budget is around 90 Billion/year. How high does it need to be ?


Prop 13 made it possible for many middle class people to stay in thier homes after retiring. Why shouldn't property taxes be predictable after you buy a house? Possibly, it should not have applied to apartments or commercial property.
My parents house has been under prop until 2011.
The taxes were about $1100/year on a property valued at $520k.
That seems low until you consider the house only as 1200 sq feet. So you are paying $1/sq foot-year. (new owners are paying 5X that!)

In south carolina, I am paying about $0.75/sq foot-year. The schools here have problems, but it is not primarily funding, but just the students they get.

So the Calif house was somewhat undertaxed before being sold, but the state is getting plenty now.

If you knew about Hudson then you would know there would not even be sales taxes, or income taxes for the middle class. He thinks taxes need to be shifted onto ground rents, and so do I.