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  • Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

    http://www.reportonbusiness.com/serv.../Business/home

    The biggest housing boom in more than 50 years appears to be out of steam as sales tumbled in all major cities this winter and listings surged in Western Canada.
    Sales of existing homes cooled in almost all major markets – including Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver – in the first quarter of 2008, according to figures released yesterday by the Canadian Real Estate Association.
    At the same time, a glut of sellers entered the markets in the West, sending new listings to their highest level on record.
    The first-quarter data prompted one prominent Bay Street economist to declare the end of the most robust housing cycle of the post war era.
    “Canada's six-year housing market boom is officially over. Aside from a few choice prairie locales, sales are melting faster than this year's snowpack,” Douglas Porter, deputy chief economist at BMO Nesbitt Burns, said in a research note.
    In the first three months of the year, 75,467 resale units changed hands, a 13-per-cent drop from the first quarter of 2007, according to CREA.
    Sales fell 18.7 per cent in March from a year earlier, the largest year-to-year decline in unadjusted home sales since January, 1998, when activity dropped 28 per cent from the year before. These figures have not been seasonally adjusted.
    In contrast to the weakening sales, new listings soared to a record 154,217 units in the January-March period.
    Nasty winter weather in cities, including the country's largest resale home market, Toronto, almost certainly hurt sales in the first three months, Mr. Porter said in an interview. However double-digit declines in “more markets than you can shake a stick at” suggest a trend with deeper roots, he said.
    What will go down as a “housing boom for the history books” actually started nearly 10 years ago, according to a recent presentation by Adrienne Warren, senior economist at the Bank of Nova Scotia.
    It's a cycle that has blasted past expectations in both its length and scope, leaving almost no Canadian market untouched and fuelled by everything from soaring demand in Vancouver to Newfoundland's offshore oil sector.
    Underpinned by strong economic conditions, including historically low unemployment and interest rates, average inflation-adjusted home prices have soared by 65 per cent in the period from 1998 to 2007. This easily tops the 32- to 56-per-cent appreciation of the past three housing booms of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, each of which lasted for five or six years.
    On a seasonally adjusted basis, existing home sales in Canada's major markets in the first quarter of 2008 declined by 7.1 per cent, compared with the previous quarter, and by 10.6 per cent from the same period the previous year, to 81,747 units. In March, 2008, seasonally adjusted sales rose by 0.9 per cent month-over-month from a three-year low in February and fell by 12.1 per cent from March, 2007, to 26,799 units.

  • #2
    Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

    From BCREA:
    BC Home Sales Down in First Quarter - April 18, 2008 (PDF)

    Vancouver, BC – April 18, 2008. British Columbia Real Estate Association (BCREA) reports residential sales dollar volume on the Multiple Listing Service® (MLS®) in BC dipped 1.8 per cent to $8.9 billion during the first quarter, compared to the same period in 2007. Residential unit sales declined 13.5 per cent to 18,635 units during the same period. The average MLS® residential price in the province reached $478,423, up 13.5 per cent from the first quarter of 2007.

    “The housing market lost some steam during the first quarter,” said Cameron Muir, BCREA Chief Economist. “Eroding affordability has squeezed some potential buyers out of the market, while uncertainty about the duration and impact of a weak US economy and housing recession likely has some consumers sitting on the sidelines.” “Despite weakness in the forest sector, economic fundamentals in the province remain strong and continue to underpin housing demand,” added Muir. “A 25 per cent increase in the number of homes for sale is providing home buyers with more selection and reducing the chances of competing bids on the same property.”

    March MLS® residential sales volume fell 12.4 per cent to $3.48 billion compared to March 2007. Residential unit sales declined 22 per cent to 7,128 units in March, while the average MLS® residential price increased 12.3 per cent to $488,796 compared to March 2007.
    Another interesting development is that total mortgage origination volume in Canada has been flat since Nov 2007. In February 2008, the subprime and credit union originations are -57% and -32% YOY. The bank originations are -3.5% YOY, while mortgage banks origination volume is still rising at 34% YOY. Source: Filogix Market Report I created a chart of Mortgage Origination Index using Filogix data for Feb 07 and Feb 08.

    moi.JPG

    I went to False Creek in Vancouver downtown on Sunday, April 20th - the heart of Olympic Village development. I counted 12 cranes there.

    Fuji 002.jpg

    There are currently 14,600+ active listings in Greater Vancouver rising at 240% annualized rate (20% MOM) and a record high of 26,000 units under construction. The sales growth is down 22% MOM in March.


    The BC buyers traffic volumes on mls.ca is below April 2007 according to Google Trends data.

    mls traffic volumes.GIF

    There will be real shortage of Greater Fools to absorb the inventory glut. The game is up.
    Last edited by idianov; April 22, 2008, 12:47 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

      Originally posted by idianov View Post
      From BCREA:
      BC Home Sales Down in First Quarter - April 18, 2008 (PDF)



      Another interesting development is that total mortgage origination volume in Canada has been flat since Nov 2007. In February 2008, the subprime and credit union originations are -57% and -32% YOY. The bank originations are -3.5% YOY, while mortgage banks origination volume is still rising at 34% YOY.

      I went to False Creek in Vancouver downtown on Sunday, April 20th - the heart of Olympic Village development. I counted 10+ cranes total. I will post pic later today.

      There are currently 14,600+ active listings in Greater Vancouver rising at 240% annualized rate (20% MOM) and a record high of 26,000 units under construction. The sales growth is down 22% MOM in March.

      The BC buyers traffic volumes on mls.ca is below April 2007 according to Google Trends data.

      [ATTACH]338[/ATTACH]

      There will be real shortage of Greater Fools to absorb the inventory glut. The game is up.
      great comments. you don't suppose... that with itulip and all the bubble sites that maybe... just maybe... it's having an impact? folks smartening up to the bubble game?

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      • #4
        Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

        Where's Vancouvergoinup anyway? Haven't seen him around in a while.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

          Hasn't really affected prices yet, but my observation from other markets is that inventories go up first, then the prices start coming down.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

            Originally posted by Lukester View Post
            Where's Vancouvergoinup anyway? Haven't seen him around in a while.
            VGup was allowed to post on this site as a cautionary tale. He's been the class clown, the sideshow barker, the circus carny at iTulip since I first arrived. To mock him now is to assume he was not being mocked and made an example when his posts were allowed to stand.

            Vancouver is one of North America's great cities. I suspect it's residents will find little humor in this downturn or in VGups recent hubris.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

              Originally posted by metalman View Post
              great comments. you don't suppose... that with itulip and all the bubble sites that maybe... just maybe... it's having an impact? folks smartening up to the bubble game?
              There are a few housing bubble blogs in Vancouver covering local listings, sales, construction, etc since 2004. They have little impact because people are focused on rising prices without critical thinking. Many rational people I know are in denial saying Vancouver is different, there is no more land, rich foreigners buying, price will never go down.

              For me, it looked like the end of the run in June 2006, but CMHC and banks came up with more innovations like 40-year mortgages, subprime, 100% financing for investors to buy up to 4 properties. I know first time home buyers who are getting into the market with 0% and 40 years mortgages.

              I think the subprime collapse in August 2007 was the trigger that changed the perception of perpetual RE growth in Vancouver and the world.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

                I always got the feeling that HE in turn was mocking someone else - maybe everyone who took his posts seriously.

                Originally posted by santafe2 View Post
                VGup was allowed to post on this site as a cautionary tale. He's been the class clown, the sideshow barker, the circus carny at iTulip since I first arrived. To mock him now is to assume he was not being mocked and made an example when his posts were allowed to stand.

                Vancouver is one of North America's great cities. I suspect it's residents will find little humor in this downturn or in VGups recent hubris.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

                  Originally posted by metalman View Post
                  great comments. you don't suppose... that with itulip and all the bubble sites that maybe... just maybe... it's having an impact? folks smartening up to the bubble game?
                  I think you are on to something here Mike. We keep hearing the term "Bubble" being used frequently now; in criticism of Greenspan, to describe various commodities (potash, oil, rice) and in reference to the rapidly declining real estate action.

                  I suppose we can hope that more people are more cognizant of the dangers of indiscriminant participation in an overinflated asset catagory.

                  But somehow I doubt it. It's difficult for me to imagine that the mass psychology that has existed through the ages (tulips, South Sea, Mississippi, etc.) has suddenly been dialed out of our DNA. Even EJ expects another bubble, given the rather dire consequences of not having one. By definition that means that most will not participate in it until the very end blow-off stage, non?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

                    Originally posted by idianov View Post
                    Many rational people I know are in denial saying Vancouver is different, there is no more land, rich foreigners buying, price will never go down.
                    Sounds a lot like the Hawaiian RE bubble 1986-1990. The arguments were the same, no more land, rich foreigners buying, etc. Then the can't miss market went down about 25% between 1990 and 1998. If you calculate the cost of inflation, prices fell to roughly half over that period.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

                      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                      I always got the feeling that HE in turn was mocking someone else - maybe everyone who took his posts seriously.
                      << Originally Posted by santafe2 VGup was allowed to post on this site as a cautionary tale. He's been the class clown, the sideshow barker, the circus carny at iTulip since I first arrived. >>

                      In defense of "VGup":

                      I agree with Spartacus - it was quite clear to some of us that Vancouver goin' Up was posting with some component of humor - constantly "talking up" the Vancouver real estate market in evident parody of a car salesman. In fact I suggest that those of us who became terribly incensed by it and most vilified him for it were possibly coming up short in sense of humor. You would have to ascribe to "VGup" (greak moniker BTW) an extraordinary degree of stupidity not to understand that with real estate markets inflating and then deflating worldwide, "something was afoot" in global real estate to which Vancouver was no more immune than any of dozens of other cities worldwide. Personally when I see people whom it is implied, find themselves to be quite smart, assuming someone else is incredibly stupid, that's usually a red flag.

                      Obviously given the incensed, even outraged reactions elicited in some quarters here at iTulip on the topic, the whole thing got elevated to a game where the real estate segment of this website became like a Badminton area where VGup could tease, and all the housing bears would congregate to paw the ground with great woolly paws, rant and snort and roar with anger at the mere suggestion of healthy real estate markets existing anywhere. Anyone who descended to the point of "believing" this whole song and dance and losing all sense of fun about it takes themselves far too seriously. This is where some of the really nasty personal jibes at VGup struck me as rather low-brow around here - i.e. not really getting what it was all about.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

                        Lukester,

                        I am not one who ever bothered with VGUP, as you say, but I don't agree it was necessarily intended as humor.

                        There are tons of sales people who act exactly that way: no matter what they push any fact which conveniences them.

                        The 'net being what it is, it was probably some troll trying to get a rise out of people, but that also is not intentional humor.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

                          God save us all from becoming humorless and too "self-regarding" C1ue. The best vaccine against pomposity in life is to periodically and regularly be sure one can still poke fun at oneself, and at one's own kin and tribe. Methinks for many it was an opportunity missed on these threads with "VGup".

                          I for one uphold his right to come back here and post whatever the f**k he pleases (within some very broad limits). Merely being a booster for real estate, fake, real or utterly fantastic though it may be, is NOT a crime in my book. The more subtle crime rather, resides with those who would sanctimoniously deny him the right to speak out.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

                            Originally posted by santafe2 View Post
                            VGup was allowed to post on this site as a cautionary tale. He's been the class clown, the sideshow barker, the circus carny at iTulip since I first arrived. To mock him now is to assume he was not being mocked and made an example when his posts were allowed to stand.

                            Vancouver is one of North America's great cities. I suspect it's residents will find little humor in this downturn or in VGups recent hubris.
                            Exactly right. The group voted about a year ago to keep vgup around for entertainment value, in spite of the spammy posts. We expected his or her relentless boosterism was due to fall off along with Vancouver RRE prices.

                            It appears that day has arrived.
                            Ed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Antispin needed: VancouverGoinUp?

                              unfortunately bubbles have become a part of American economic culture in the same way one would subscribe the timeless....pyramid scheme!

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