American Taxpayer Plundered

[FRED]

[doom&gloom]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

unfortunately, those homeowners were just as irresponsible. though if they go bust it is not great thing, but if the banks go, everyone will go bust. but no worries, Obama will be sure to help everyone! :rolleyes:

[ricket]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

unfortunately, those homeowners were just as irresponsible. though if they go bust it is not great thing, but if the banks go, everyone will go bust. but no worries, Obama will be sure to help everyone! :rolleyes:

Screw that. My mortgage company literally broke the law when they signed my mortgage (my builder laundered the money through a "non-profit" in order to "pay" my down payment for me on an FHA loan). I have no sympathy for my new mortgage service company (Countrywide) to go bankrupt because they broke the law and for me to not pay them a dime more than I already have. IMHO, I feel as though I have paid for my house in full after paying my mortgage for almost 3 years for a falsely and grossly over-inflated home value due to the original fraud.

If you execute a contract while breaking the law, the rest of the contract simply falls apart as the entire thing is null and void from that point forward.

[doom&gloom]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

I don't want to be harsh, but did you READ whet you SIGNED?

I have been thru 5 houses and an office building. I have read EVERY
WORD of EVERY CONTRACT I have ever signed. Every listing, every
sale, every mortgage agreement.

[Guest]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

Screw that. My mortgage company literally broke the law when they signed my mortgage (my builder laundered the money through a "non-profit" in order to "pay" my down payment for me on an FHA loan). I have no sympathy for my new mortgage service company (Countrywide) to go bankrupt because they broke the law and for me to not pay them a dime more than I already have. IMHO, I feel as though I have paid for my house in full after paying my mortgage for almost 3 years for a falsely and grossly over-inflated home value due to the original fraud.

If you execute a contract while breaking the law, the rest of the contract simply falls apart as the entire thing is null and void from that point forward.

Ironic. One point made in the video was that there isn't a "momma" to bail you or anyone out. Yet we have an huge segment of the population who see govn't as a parent. Mommy should have read them the contract, I guess.

Don't fret. It looks like if you stomp your feet, cry and complain enough, you might get momma to give you what you want after all.

They make a wide selection of "for dummies" books that would have prevented your problem, had you chosen to take the initiative to actually learn about home buying before jumping in. But I guess American Idol was on and you got too busy.

But you're right. It's easier to claim you were defrauded.

[ricket]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

Ironic. One point made in the video was that there isn't a "momma" to bail you or anyone out. Yet we have an huge segment of the population who see govn't as a parent. Mommy should have read them the contract, I guess.

Don't fret. It looks like if you stomp your feet, cry and complain enough, you might get momma to give you what you want after all.

They make a wide selection of "for dummies" books that would have prevented your problem, had you chosen to take the initiative to actually learn about home buying before jumping in. But I guess American Idol was on and you got too busy.

But you're right. It's easier to claim you were defrauded.

It's not a claim. Money Laundering is illegal and has been for quite some time now. That's why it's called "fraud" because the victim is unaware of it happening and/or deceived into believing that it was a legitimate legal exercise. There isn't any sort of statement in my mortgage anywhere (and I did in fact read the whole thing) that says "This mortgage is illegal because the builder illegally paid for your downpayment, but you agree to be defrauded anyways by signing this".

And nowhere did I ever ask for any kind of "bailout". I just commented that my mortgage servicing company should incur thousands of dollars in losses for allowing fraud to enter into the picture in the first place. They can't claim "buyer beware" either, because they are not the original underwriter, and actually bought the mortgage from someone else themselves. They should have *also* browsed the contract for fraud and if they would have they would have found it as well.

[metalman]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

It's not a claim. Money Laundering is illegal. That's why it's called "fraud" because the victim is unaware of it happening and/or deceived into believing that it was legitimate.

layers of fraud here. did the appraiser 'meet the price'? that was a common practice during the bubble. shit, these guys sent each other faxes with the 'named' price on it... a felony in many states.

[ricket]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

Ironic. One point made in the video was that there isn't a "momma" to bail you or anyone out. Yet we have an huge segment of the population who see govn't as a parent. Mommy should have read them the contract, I guess.

Don't fret. It looks like if you stomp your feet, cry and complain enough, you might get momma to give you what you want after all.

They make a wide selection of "for dummies" books that would have prevented your problem, had you chosen to take the initiative to actually learn about home buying before jumping in. But I guess American Idol was on and you got too busy.

But you're right. It's easier to claim you were defrauded.

Funny that you dont support the people being defrauded, but seem to support those doing the fraud. Following that logic, you probably also believe rape victims "should have protected themselves better" as well. After all if they would have read the "for dummies" books on self-protection, they would clearly have seen that mace, or a gun, and a fighting will deter most rapists. Too bad for them then huh?

[ricket]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

layers of fraud here. did the appraiser 'meet the price'? that was a common practice during the bubble. shit, these guys sent each other faxes with the 'named' price on it... a felony in many states.

Yeah, he did "meet the price" actually. The price was inflated 3%, the builder gave the same 3% to a non-profit, the non-profit gave it to me, and I gave it to the FHA.

#1 its against the law for a builder to pay the down payment on an FHA loan
#2 The builder raised the home price by 3%, essentially "financing" the down payment, but passed it on through a "non-profit" to make it look as though that wasnt the case (-> Money Laundering)
#3 I never saw that money to give to the FHA either, no cash was given to me at any point during the transaction. It was simply an "accounting entry" on the mortgage document during the flurry of settlements.
#4 I didnt realize *any* of this until about 6 months ago after reading about the rampant fraud involved in the subprime mortgage industry. After reading how bad it was, I double-checked my own mortgage documents and found this out.

I wasnt too keen on finances and economies prior (hell, Im only 26 and "bought" my home straight out of college when I was 23) but I have been "fully awake" in terms of the economy etc. for about a year now. I have Ron Paul to thank for awakening me into this hell that I call American economics. I have EJ to thank for helping me make sense of it all. It's alot like Neo waking up in the matrix to find out his whole life prior was just a bunch of smoke and mirrors and the real world is a whole lot crappier than he could even imagine. I long for the days of blissful ignorance when everyone thought everything was peachy and we were all going to prosper now that we bought homes.

[metalman]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

Yeah, he did "meet the price" actually. The price was inflated 3%, the builder gave the same 3% to a non-profit, the non-profit gave it to me, and I gave it to the FHA.

#1 its against the law for a builder to pay the down payment on an FHA loan
#2 The builder raised the home price by 3%, essentially "financing" the down payment, but passed it on through a "non-profit" to make it look as though that wasnt the case.
#3 I never saw that money to give to the FHA either, no cash was given to me at any point during the transaction. It was simply an "accounting entry" on the mortgage document during the flurry of settlements.
#4 I didnt realize *any* of this until about 6 months ago after reading about the rampant fraud involved in the subprime mortgage industry. I had heard the term, but I have only been "fully awake" in terms of the economy etc. for about a year now. I have Ron Paul to thank for awakening me into this hell that I call American economics. It's alot like Neo waking up in the matrix to find out his whole life prior was just a bunch of smoke and mirrors and the real world is a whole lot crappier than he could even imagine. I long for the days of blissful ignorance when everyone thought everything was peachy and we were all going to prosper now that we bought homes.

usa. r.i.p. unless we get organized.

[tree]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

Good grief -- does no one here respond to this woman's passion and what she is saying? This thread reads like just another iT circle jerk about the stupidity of others.

Has she nothing to say that merits our support?

Is there any reason to keep blaming the victims--for instance, a homeowner who remodeled carefully and now finds himself about to lose his home because payments got away from him, despite his best efforts to plan to make them? Because he believed what real estate specialists told him, because he had to trust someone, because he wasn't a genius self-directed investor like so many on this site purport to (and may well in fact) be?

What not pour the energy in that contempt into some positive, constructive action on behalf of those less fortunate or wise?

Yes, there was stupidity on the part of some homeowners, and greed on the part of others. But plenty of people who did nothing more foolish than buy too close to the top of the market are now underwater at a time when they may be losing their jobs. Suicide and crime are rising. I'm afraid to go to the bank now because of the growing bank armed robberies in Washington.

This is the kind of set-up that leads to the rise of a demagogue like Sarah Palin, who will be waiting in the wings after disastrous years of inflation under Obama (who is likely to do no better nor worse than McCain would in such a situation, and whom I might support if not for his clear insanity demonstrated once again by picking Palin...to think the word barely got out that Michael Hudson was advising Dennis Kucinich...wow).

I am reading "Human Smoke" by Nicholson Baker, about the rise of World War II. It's heartbreaking. It's a warning for our times. It's early in the cycle -- there is still a chance for us to care about each other, to avoid the rising up of the arms and biological warfare manufacturers, World War III and the Brownshirt Barbies waiting in the wings.

[metalman]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

Good grief -- does no one here respond to this woman's passion and what she is saying? This thread reads like just another iT circle jerk about the stupidity of others.

Has she nothing to say that merits our support?

Is there any reason to keep blaming the victims--for instance, a homeowner who remodeled carefully and now finds himself about to lose his home because payments got away from him, despite his best efforts to plan to make them? Because he believed what real estate specialists told him, because he had to trust someone, because he wasn't a genius self-directed investor like so many on this site purport to (and may well in fact) be?

What not pour the energy in that contempt into some positive, constructive action on behalf of those less fortunate or wise?

Yes, there was stupidity on the part of some homeowners, and greed on the part of others. But plenty of people who did nothing more foolish than buy too close to the top of the market are now underwater at a time when they may be losing their jobs. Suicide and crime are rising. I'm afraid to go to the bank now because of the growing bank armed robberies in Washington.

This is the kind of set-up that leads to the rise of a demagogue like Sarah Palin, who will be waiting in the wings after disastrous years of inflation under Obama (who is likely to do no better nor worse than McCain would in such a situation, and whom I might support if not for his clear insanity demonstrated once again by picking Palin...to think the word barely got out that Michael Hudson was advising Dennis Kucinich...wow).

I am reading "Human Smoke" by Nicholson Baker, about the rise of World War II. It's heartbreaking. It's a warning for our times. It's early in the cycle -- there is still a chance for us to care about each other, to avoid the rising up of the arms and biological warfare manufacturers, World War III and the Brownshirt Barbies waiting in the wings.

tree, what do you expect? folks here at tulip are the > 0.1% who do NOT listen to fire econ shills. the rest of the media is the fire econ show, 7/24 blaring out of every talking head and guru. we're a collection of skeptics. we don't sympathize with the credulous.

now the flying monkeys of the fire econ are out selling 'deflation' and a few misguided others are buying it.

good call on obama. everyone's reputation will be ruined by what's about to happen... volcker's, buffet's, etc.

[Rajiv]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

I think Marcy Kaptur's indictment of the free market kleptocrats was right on.

However I have often found that some free market libertarians are sometimes lacking in empathy, and adopt a "blame the victim" attitude.

But that said, there is an issue of two groups at odds with each other namely "savers" vs "borrowers." Over the last thirty years, we have shifted as a society from being "savers" to being "borrowers" -- and that in my view is the basis of this rot -- "free and cheap money" leads to a moral hazard, and leads to people falling into the traps just described by Ricket.

I think the posters may have been adopting this position, and in the process appearing unsympathetic.

[doom&gloom]

Re: American Taxpayer Plundered

Sorry, everyone cannot be a 'victim' in life, you must have personal responsibility for your own actions.

Bought a house at 23 yrs old? I am persoanlly amazed. I bought my first one at 26 yrs old, had to save 20% down so i had a real stake in it, and was well aware of what I owned as a result. I sure would not have had the maturity to buy at 23, and so it appears, neither did you.

Being Neo took responsibility for what was happening in the world around him, I hope now that you have awakened you do the same. the sense of entitlement that led you to think you should own a home at 23 is now gone, replaced by the illusion of debt and responsibility -- and the fact that people out there in the 'real world' don't always play nice and you have to look out for yourself.

So if this lesson costs you some sleep, or a few bucks at 26, rack it up as a cheap lesson. You are old enough to recover from anything that hits you now. And perhaps you will be cynical enough on all fronts in the future to not look for freebies and good deals thinking these things are low hanging fruit just for you.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for a 23 year old who had an entitlement mentality and poor reading skills. I do have hope for a 26 year old who has grown up a bit though...