NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

[vinoveri]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

Thought this was a joke at first when I read the first part of this ABC "journalist" interview with Speaker Boehner, who calls Snowden a traitor, sides with administration, and assures all Americans that they aren't being "snooped" - and no tough questions from Stephanopolous - e.g., are not NSA actions contrary to law, contrary to free society, contrary to will of people, etc, (oh yeah wasn't he in Clinton WH?). Incredible. Pravda indeed. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trans...=#.UbcwTdiwV9U

[cobben]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

this dude does not add up. The Snowden/Catch-22 thing is just too much of a coincidence. In fact, all of these back-to-back revelations and scandals seem a bit too pat for me.

here ya go, straight from the horses mouth (a comment on 0hedge):

Project 'Snowden - Snow Job' - why Snowden may be a fake or double agent

Edward Snowden NSA 'whistleblower' is being promoted by America's top CIA family, at the centre of America's oligarchs who own and control US politicians and media


Millionaire journalist Mika Brzezinski pumping Snowden, is the daughter of master warmonger Zbigniew 'Great Game - Grand Chessboard' Brzezinski, Obama friend and advisor, Trilateral Commission grandfather, central US Shadow Government figure with Rockefellers, Henry Kissinger, Bilderbergs etc


Mika's brother Ian Brzezinski has been working with Snowden at the CIA-NSA company Booz Allen ...


UK Guardian is CIA-tied corrupt like the New York Times, same plan ... fake lefty-'progressive' on surface, but the Guardian and NYT both take bribes to publish fake 'news' for the CIA and friends


Other holes in Snowden's story - improbable CV, quick rise from security guard to IT expert for CIA-NSA in Switzerland, shows a diplomatic passport tho usually confiscated after diplomat job ends etc ... Even if Snowden personally is half-sincere, media hype with Brzezinskis means the hype about him is CIA Operation Mockingbird (media control), done for a reason


As David Harrison of Trade With Dave says: « What are the odds that the lady doing the interviewing about the guy who spilled his guts on the NSA are brother, sister and employee, not to mention children (a super-majority at least) of the one man who may have the President of the United State’s ear more than any other single person? Purely a coincidence… nothing to see here folks… move along. You can forget the Trilateral Commission ... »
http://tradewithdave.com/?p=16948


---


Question now is, why are they running Project Snowden - Snow Job ?


Is Snowden a fake 'dissident' in order to get asylum and then penetrate intelligence operations inside Russia or China, and later jump back ?


Is the US regime trying to get us to be more trusting of some of these corrupt mainstream media stooges again ?


Are they running a test to see how much REAL outrage there is, versus submission ?


Are they just trying to get people more used to fascism, and the seeming fact there is little that can be done about it ?


Another fake coup, to fool US people with 'faith in the system', like with the military CIA 'Watergate' coup to take down Nixon, that was run by the CIA with the military joint chiefs - reporter Bob Woodward was a Naval Intelligence agent working for the top Admiral running the US military who took Nixon down (book 'Silent Coup' by Colodny and Gettlin) ? ... Now we will have an even more fake 'victory', taking down Obama and maybe Biden ?

[cobben]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

has the USofA's military-industrial-espionage complex's integrity become seriously compromised through rampant corruption in the privatization frenzy?

Yes.

(and don't miss the fun bits about Social Security Cards Issued By Woolworth and Why you don’t get taxis in Singapore when it rains?.)

Patrick Durusau: Social Security Numbers – Close Enough for a Drone Strike?


. . .

The following dialogue is fictional but the facts and links are real.



Sen. X: Mr. N, as a representative of the NSA, are you familiar with the case of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab?

Mr. N: Yes.

Sen. X: I understand that the CIA entered his name in the Terrorist
Identities Datamart Environment in November of 2009. But his name was not added to the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Database, which feeds the Secondary Screening Selectee list and the U.S.’s No Fly List.

Mr. N: Yes.

Sen. X: The Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, Terrorist Screening Database, Secondary Screening Selectee list and the U.S.’s No Fly List are all U.S. government databases? Databases to which the NSA has complete access?

Mr. N: Yes.

Sen. X: So, the NSA was unable to manage data in four (4) U.S. government databases well enough to prevent a terrorist from boarding a plane destined from the United States.

My question is if the NSA can’t manage four U.S. goverment databases, what proof is there the NSA can usefully manage all phone and other electronic traffic usefully?

Mr. N: I don’t know.

Sen. X: Who would know?

Mr. N: The computer and software bidders for the NSA DarkStar facility in Utah.

Sen. X: And who would they be?

Mr. N: That’s classified.

Sen. X: Classified?

Mr. N: Yes, classified.

Sen. X: Has it ever occurred to you that bidders have an interest in their contracts being funded and agencies in having larger budgets?

Mr. N: Sorry, I don’t understand the question.

Sen. X: My bad, I really didn’t think you would.

[c1ue]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

here ya go, straight from the horses mouth (a comment on 0hedge):

Some, including myself, would say it came straight from a different, more backward part of the horse.

[c1ue]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

Why is the use of association data disturbing?

How about this:

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news...ents-show?lite

About one of every four of those killed by drones in Pakistan between Sept. 3, 2010, and Oct. 30, 2011, were classified as "other militants,” the documents detail. The “other militants” label was used when the CIA could not determine the affiliation of those killed, prompting questions about how the agency could conclude they were a threat to U.S. national security.

The uncertainty appears to arise from the use of so-called “signature” strikes to eliminate suspected terrorists -- picking targets based in part on their behavior and associates. A former White House official said the U.S. sometimes executes people based on “circumstantial evidence.”

How nice.

And we want the NSA to be able to quickly and cheaply build identical capabilities to produce 'signature' targets in domestic America?

[lektrode]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

IMHO, it's the clearance and the COLA in Hawaii that accounts for the salary. Bet it was a cost-plus contract, too.

I don't know and it's largely impossible to find out for sure, but this dude does not add up. The Snowden/Catch-22 thing is just too much of a coincidence. In fact, all of these back-to-back revelations and scandals seem a bit too pat for me.

+1
could easily imagine a contractor being paid 50-100% more for a hawaii DOD assignment, esp if its a 'temp' job.

and seeing as how much dirt is being dredged up, methinks we've got a distract em from focus on lower manhattan sideshow happnin.

how else to explain the irs leak?
or how better to distract the 'mainstream' media than to leak that THEY are the target??

[Adeptus]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

The Charlie Rose interview from June 10th, 2013 from CNN. Featuring former director of CIA James Woosley and Ron Paul
Note: This only contains part of the interview, if anybody finds the entire thing, please post it, because as much as I have a libertarian slant, I want to see the missing pieces from this interview.

14 Min Video:

My jaw dropped at the results of the vote at the end of the video, all I can say to those people is: Good luck! You'll get the government you deserve!

[lektrode]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

...while he may have been living in Hawaii with a stripper ....

that was my first assumption, after the shot of her 'pole dancing' in the HNL paper yest, but would appear she's more of an artist,
as per the daily mail (which runs much better photos ;)

and per PCR, its HILARIOUS that we learn more about this guy (and his chik) from a UK paper than our own????

The American people are the most uninformed people in modern history.

In America there is no democracy that holds government accountable. There is only a brainwashed people who are chaff in the wind.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

[astonas]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

My jaw dropped at the results of the vote at the end of the video, all I can say to those people is: Good luck! You'll get the government you deserve!

Here's the full poll.

Here's the summary.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

“I love treason but hate a traitor.” ― Julius Caesar

[lakedaemonian]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

What I want to know is whether he had LEGAL access.

I think we're not JUST talking about the legality of his DISCLOSURES(from a genuine and fair national security point of view AS WELL AS violation of any NDA he may have signed)....and of course the highly likely attempts to portray him as having destroyed US national security and paint him as a Mitrokhin level spy.

I think we're now also talking about the legality of his ACCESS aren't we?

THAT's why I've been questioning his background.

If he was an analyst(which his pedigree appears he most definitely is NOT) then it's reasonable to assume he had legal access as part of his role and responsibility to the sensitive/secret/top secret data he is referring to.

Here's a question no one seems to be able to answer:

WTF is a SysAdmin doing with the raw or refined data?

Isn't a SysAdmin's job to direct data TRAFFIC(like making the "data trains" run on time)?

Is it a SysAdmin's job to snoop around the DATA(like a "data train" scheduler/manager snooping around inside the "train cars" looking at private cargo)?

Until Snowden can convince me otherwise, he appears to be no better than a dodgy digital Pakistani pinching ISAF shipping containers on their way to Afghan.

Any IT SysAdmin's about?

I know in the private sector it's common for SysAdmin's and Support Desk types get to see a fair bit of stuff they probably shouldn't, but if you've got NDA's and employee agreements and job responsibilities and terminable offenses and etc.etc.etc that are designed to prevent someone from doing what Snowden did.....and you throw the additional layer of strategic national security in the mix........you've got problems.

*He probably did some stuff WAY outside his job remit that was super dodgy
*The contractor had poor internal control measures to mitigate someone pulling a Bradley Manning
*The OGA had poor audit oversight over the contractor

I'm all about smashing any government over stretch of power, particularly when it comes to personal freedom of innocent citizens.

But I can't help but think of the quote I just posted:

“I love treason but hate a traitor.” ― Julius Caesar

At the moment, my shoot from the lip opinion is that Snowden should be patted on the back, then imprisoned.

There needs to be a whole lot more specificity around the details of what he learned, how he learned it, when he learned it, where he learned it, and if he was within his rights in his position to learn it.

As well as WHY he did not consider:

Internal whistleblower/reporting options(yeah I know)

Reporting to Congress(even though most are bought/sold...there are a few strongly opposed to all this who would love nothing more than to get their name in the media and take scalps over this)

If he went well outside his remit, then he needs to front up, otherwise it looks like he planned it all before he even joined the contracting company.

And that's a big difference as to whether he is charged in the court of public opinion with cyber self defense or digital premeditated murder.

Am I off the mark here?

[jk]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

if, as you say, a sysadmin had no business knowing the things snowden apparently knows, then - aside from the issues you raise- it also highlights how easily these systems could be misused, and misused by people with far more nefarious intentions than snowden.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

if, as you say, a sysadmin had no business knowing the things snowden apparently knows, then - aside from the issues you raise- it also highlights how easily these systems could be misused, and misused by people with far more nefarious intentions than snowden.

Bingo!

Maybe we should all watch Brazil again....or Venture Brothers....or Archer.

[c1ue]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

What I want to know is whether he had LEGAL access.

I think we're not JUST talking about the legality of his DISCLOSURES(from a genuine and fair national security point of view AS WELL AS violation of any NDA he may have signed)....and of course the highly likely attempts to portray him as having destroyed US national security and paint him as a Mitrokhin level spy.

I think we're now also talking about the legality of his ACCESS aren't we?

THAT's why I've been questioning his background.

If he was an analyst(which his pedigree appears he most definitely is NOT) then it's reasonable to assume he had legal access as part of his role and responsibility to the sensitive/secret/top secret data he is referring to.

I think you're assuming sysadmins are some type of idiot savant janitors of computer systems, when in reality the role can encompass all manner of responsibilities including customer support.

If Snowden was in fact in charge of debugging system access issues - he would easily have full access to all sorts of info just in the process of providing support to analysts.

Thus once again, your attempt to portray his access is being some violation - there's no question whatsoever that he's violated all sorts of agreements. The way most NDAs are written, you violate them pretty much by breathing.

The issue isn't how he had access, nor whether the access was legal.

The issue is whether the activity which prompted his actions is as dangerous and irresponsible as Snowden believes.

I think so, and apparently at least a few other people like EJ think so, even as you continue to try and shove Snowden into some sort of box.

How about focusing on the message and not the messenger?

[Adeptus]

Re: NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

WTF is a SysAdmin doing with the raw or refined data?
Isn't a SysAdmin's job to direct data TRAFFIC(like making the "data trains" run on time)?

The definition of a "Systems Administrator" can be quite varied across a wide spectrum of different companies, as witnessed by any number of job posts with the same title, but very different set of specific responsibilities.


The job to "direct data traffic", falls more under the responsibility of a Network Analyst/Engineer such as myself. We provide/manage the inter-connectivity between all servers, employee PCs, Wifi connected systems, VoIP phone systems, internet access, business parties with private links and external customers. In simple terms, I'm like a data plumber. The network are the pipes. The data is the water. The cup is the end user and the river/water sources are the servers.

Aside from specific ares of responsibilities, a SysAdmin's typically:
* Manage the day to day Server (and sometimes network) infrastructure of an organization. By server I mean a select few, up to ALL servers.
* Have the *highest* level of privilege/access permissions to all or some limited number of servers/IT systems. In most companies, this often includes access to Email Servers, which will contain every email being received/sent by the organization, nearly always including CEO and other senior executives.
* Recommends/installs/manages/monitors & troubleshoots such systems; however, most organizations have some kind of policy in place that say that a SysAdmin may not look/inspect/read etc the contents of an organization's employees without specific permission from that individual (i.e. in case of troubleshooint their email) or from a higher up, typically for employee investigation issues.
* Has access to all Backup Systems, including the ability to retrieve data you (as an employee) may have deleted years ago, but that is stored on some backup tape/system. Remember all those questionable emails you sent but regretted and then deleted? A SysAdmins with proper backup systems can probably retrieve that data, in some companies as far back as 5-7 years is not uncommon. I've heard of some companies keeping records upwards of 10 years as well... with the NSA, expect a life time of not just their employees, but as has come to light, anybody they can possibly listen in on by any method. I would bet $1,000 this entire thread (if not all of itulip) is being collected and stored on some NSA server somewhere.


Depending on organization size/type, other systems a sysadmin often has access to:
- Firewalls & Proxy servers: They can see who is accessing what websites or systems outside their company, or who is coming in from outside
- File Servers: They have access to see all files you have stored in a company server
- Your PC: Often they will have admin access to your PC and can easily see what is stored on it, and in some cases even monitor what you are doing, although this is rare, but perhaps not in a place like the NSA.
- Organization's Data Bases - In larger companies these are typically managed by DBA's, but often a SysAdmin will still have the highest level of access to the server(s) in case they need maintenance/troubleshooting
- PBX/Voice Systems - In larger companies these are maintained by Voice/Telecom specialists, but in small companies a Sysadmin may wear this hat too. Many companies these days run VoIP. VoIP systems can be configured to not be encrypted, and it is not too hard to eavesdrop on employee phone calls without anybody having a clue.


In short, a SysAdmin may have access to many or all servers in a company with highest access levels, because it is their job to maintain such systems; however, as already stated, that doesn't imply they have approval from higher ups to read any or all of the data they have access to - almost always they do NOT, and may be fired for the smallest infringement as they must be trusted 100%. Further, the larger the organization, the more sysadmins there are, and after a while they tend to get segmented into specialty areas (i.e. Email & File systems, but not Data Bases or Firewalls) or geographical areas of access (i.e. specific countries or continents). Also, depending on the experience of a SysAdmin, if you think about it, given they have the highest access to all data systems, that means they can and often do have access to all the log files. So technically speaking, they can do whatever they want and then just delete or manipulate the log files and nobody is the wiser. Contemporary IT departments with proper risk mitigation, often segment who has access to what and will ensure no 1 party has end to end access to X system... i.e. 1 guy may have physical access to some of the Mail Servers, another guy only remote access to configure the mail server software, but not the OS - that would be another guy. Then log files are being sent and stored in real time to 2 or 3 different geographically dispersed data centers managed by different sysadmins, and often the mail servers no longer have hard drives inside them, data is dispersed across various NAS (network attached storage) systems across different data centers, and further, backups are managed/accessibly by yet another entity in the IT department. So I suspect his claim that he had VAST access to pretty much every system in the NSA to either be an exaggeration, or the NSA is incompetent at mitigating IT sercurity risk - which I seriously doubt. What I don't have any doubts about is that, if his titles are to be believed, then certainly he would have access to a lot of classified information, but the quantity or % of such access as a total of the NSA's storage potential, is a whole other question.


Cheers,
Adeptus