Arnold Bucks

[FRED]

Like a bonar but worse!

Hat tip to member LargoWinch

[LargoWinch]

Re: Arnold Bucks

Thank you for the hat tip FRED!

On a more serious note and regarding the topic at hand, may I suggest the following:

Runtime: 10 min.

Notable quote from the clip: "...Government concentrates its benefits, but diffuse the costs"

[marvenger]

Re: Arnold Bucks

try and see the forest largo

"I would rather earn 1% off 100 people's effort than 100% of my own effort" John D Rockefeller

This shit is everywhere, trying to blame it on government isn't going to get you anywhere.

[LargoWinch]

Re: Arnold Bucks

try and see the forest largo

marvenger, I do not understand that comment. Can you please clarify your point? thanks.

[marvenger]

Re: Arnold Bucks

my point is that while government is doing an extremely bad job in a lot of respects, they are far from sole focus of where the problem lies. I think at the end of the day it predominantly is a capitalist economy but government is required for it function and tends to act as a kind of holding company for dominant capital. I don't think government is the root of the problem its the contradictions in capitalism that need to managed, and you need arms length government to do this. I'm not opposed to pointing out the many problems in government, but I am apposed to suggestions that if we could just get rid of it all our problems would go away.

[LargoWinch]

Re: Arnold Bucks

... but government is required for it function and tends to act as a kind of holding company for dominant capital.

I do not entirely agree with this. Government is a non-productive body, it shadow over an economy should be kept at a minimum.

I don't think government is the root of the problem its the contradictions in capitalism that need to managed, and you need arms length government to do this. I'm not opposed to pointing out the many problems in government, but I am apposed to suggestions that if we could just get rid of it all our problems would go away.

Please note that I am not suggesting to get rid of government, all I am suggesting is limiting its influence.

[marvenger]

Re: Arnold Bucks

At a bare minimum I think you need guys like steve keen and michael hudson with an encyclopedic knowledge of the dynamics of capitalism over hundreds of years to be involved in establishing the parameters or rules by which capitalism is to operate to avoid the imbalances that eventuate as much as possible. As far as I understand government is the best vehicle to achieve this. I also think government is needed for large infrastructure investment that the private sector won't risk as well as health care and other services including a large portion of education. The only way I can see to avoid dominant capital having undue influence in government is to increase democratic participation, this is obviously an extremely complicated issue and requires an educated public, so keep on posting and encouraging participation i guess . Personally, I'm still flirting with more radical alternatives like collectives because the above just seems like way too much effort with little reward. Sorry about sentence structure, spent too much time learning stochastic differential equations and not enough writing elegantly.

[D-Mack]

Re: Arnold Bucks

At a bare minimum I think you need guys like steve keen and michael hudson with an encyclopedic knowledge of the dynamics of capitalism over hundreds of years to be involved in establishing the parameters or rules by which capitalism is to operate to avoid the imbalances that eventuate as much as possible. As far as I understand government is the best vehicle to achieve this. I also think government is needed for large infrastructure investment that the private sector won't risk as well as health care and other services including a large portion of education. The only way I can see to avoid dominant capital having undue influence in government is to increase democratic participation, this is obviously an extremely complicated issue and requires an educated public, so keep on posting and encouraging participation i guess . Personally, I'm still flirting with more radical alternatives like collectives because the above just seems like way too much effort with little reward. Sorry about sentence structure, spent too much time learning stochastic differential equations and not enough writing elegantly.

Michael Hudson talks alot about compound interst and interest bearing debts as the main culprit. What are his solutions ?

[marvenger]

Re: Arnold Bucks

Hudson talks alot about debt jubilees needed when excessive claims on income and assets start f*&*(ing up the system. Also, Hudson is economic adviser to Kucinich who seems to support the The American Monetary Institutes proposals for a transparent rule guided system of government controlled fiat money creation in balance with how the economy is behaving to control inflation; rather than the current obfuscated debt backed fractional reserve system. I'm not sure how supportive Hudson is of this idea to control excessive debt, but c1ue who seems very familiar with Hudson may have a better idea.

[LargoWinch]

Re: Arnold Bucks

... to be involved in establishing the parameters or rules by which capitalism is to operate to avoid the imbalances that eventuate as much as possible. As far as I understand government is the best vehicle to achieve this.

marvenger, you are certainly raising some deep and complex issues for a thread entitled "Arnold Bucks" ;).

Regarding your comment above, I must say that I do not agree entirely with it as I doubt that government would be able to "establish rules by which capitalism should operates". I was under the impression that our current problems are due to too much government no? (Fannie, Freddie, etc.)

I also think government is needed for large infrastructure investment that the private sector won't risk as well as health care and other services including a large portion of education. The only way I can see to avoid dominant capital having undue influence in government is to increase democratic participation, this is obviously an extremely complicated issue and requires an educated public, so keep on posting and encouraging participation i guess .

Why would providing basic needs for society foster "dominant capital having undue influence in government"? Especially when the government itself is charged to simply contract out some of the needs (channel taxpayers money) to private firms?

Personally, I'm still flirting with more radical alternatives like collectives because the above just seems like way too much effort with little reward. Sorry about sentence structure, spent too much time learning stochastic differential equations and not enough writing elegantly.

Collectives? (your sentence structure is fine ).

[marvenger]

Re: Arnold Bucks

How and which events you describe depends on what lense you're looking through. I'd describe Fannie and Freddie as part of the problem of government acting like a holding company for dominant capital, personally I don't see how it can be descibed any other way, these were never benevolent institutions to help lower classes own their own home although some may have been hoodwinked into believing so.

with regard to my text refered to in your dominant capital question, I was initially just pointing out that I believe there is a substantial role for government in an optimised capitalist economy, that I believe in a mixed economy if its predominantly capitalist. Then I was saying, without enough explanation, that a lot of effort needs to go into ensuring that the positives of gov are maximised and negatives minimised and I think increased democratic participation is crucial to this. Finally, I believe the state of the US health care system is great evidence that the private sector is not always efficient especially when it can leech off government; contracting out basic health services is a bad idea that creates an administrative army of gross inefficiency and an over medicated public. Dominant capital loves this arrangement and an educated and involved public should demand a return to a one service provider, the state.

collectives: socialism without centralised power. Some call it anarchism. Just checking it out and trying to figure out if it really is this head in the clouds utopian dream its made out to be. Open to the possibility it very well could be.

[Verrocchio]

Re: Arnold Bucks

The Arnold Bucks video lost credibility for me when they cited statistics to show education spending in California. The state ranks nearly dead last in expenditures per pupil. I don't know where the money goes in the Golden State, but it hasn't been going to public education.

[Chomsky]

Re: Arnold Bucks

The Arnold Bucks video lost credibility for me when they cited statistics to show education spending in California. The state ranks nearly dead last in expenditures per pupil. I don't know where the money goes in the Golden State, but it hasn't been going to public education.

Wrong. California is 26th, right in the middle of the pack.

Per Pupil Amounts for Current Spending of Public Elementary-Secondary School Systems

New Jersey............................................ ......................... 12,981
New York.............................................. ......................... 12,930
District of Columbia.......................................... ................ 12,801
Vermont........................................... ............................... 11,128
Connecticut....................................... ............................. 10,788
Massachusetts..................................... ........................... 10,693
Delaware.......................................... .............................. 10,228
Alaska............................................ ............................... 10,114
Pennsylvania...................................... ............................ 9,979
Rhode Island............................................ ....................... 9,903
Maine............................................. ................................ 9,534
Wyoming........................................... .............................. 9,363
Wisconsin......................................... .............................. 9,226
Maryland.......................................... .............................. 9,212
Michigan.......................................... .............................. 9,072
Ohio.............................................. ................................. 8,963
New Hampshire......................................... ...................... 8,860
Illinois.......................................... .................................. 8,656
Hawaii............................................ ............................... 8,533
West Virginia.......................................... ......................... 8,475
Minnesota......................................... ............................. 8,359
Indiana........................................... ................................ 8,280
Virginia.......................................... ................................. 8,225
Nebraska.......................................... ............................. 8,032
Montana........................................... ............................. 7,763
California........................................ ................................ 7,748
Georgia........................................... ............................... 7,733
North Dakota............................................ ....................... 7,727
Iowa.............................................. ................................ 7,631
Oregon............................................ ............................... 7,619
Kansas............................................ .............................. 7,518
Colorado.......................................... ............................... 7,412
New Mexico............................................ ....................... 7,331
Missouri.......................................... .............................. 7,331
Washington........................................ ............................. 7,243
Louisiana......................................... ............................... 7,209
South Carolina.......................................... ....................... 7,184
Texas............................................. ................................ 7,104
South Dakota............................................ ...................... 6,949
Kentucky.......................................... .............................. 6,888
Florida........................................... ................................. 6,784
Arkansas.......................................... .............................. 6,740
North Carolina.......................................... ....................... 6,702
Alabama........................................... ............................. 6,553
Tennessee......................................... .............................. 6,504
Nevada............................................ ............................... 6,399
Mississippi....................................... .............................. 6,237
Oklahoma.......................................... ............................. 6,176
Arizona........................................... ................................ 6,036
Idaho............................................. ................................. 6,028
Utah.............................................. .................................. 5,008

From spreadsheet available here:

http://www.census.gov/mp/www/cpu/fac...ay/006726.html

[cjppjc]

Re: Arnold Bucks

Thank God for New Jersey.:eek:

[goadam1]

Re: Arnold Bucks

I do not entirely agree with this. Government is a non-productive body, it shadow over an economy should be kept at a minimum.



Please note that I am not suggesting to get rid of government, all I am suggesting is limiting its influence.

Yes. we should minimize the shadow of parks, schools, police, fire, clean air rules, clean water rules, roads, grids, military, etc...

Who needs it.

I think we should all re-read our Adam Smith.