US making friends in Afghanistan

[c1ue]

Makes me think of the Terminator movies...

[MEDIA][/MEDIA]

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: US making friends in Afghanistan

It's a terrible thing to see people die. It is especially tragic when innocents are killed. (Not likely the case here)

I read that in Pakistan, the Taliban have been pushed back by the Pakistani Army. Partly because the Pakistani government was sensing a real threat and the recent hotel bombing was their 9/11, forcing them to get serious. Also, the Taliban in their usual charming way, terrorized Pakistani towns they had "liberated". The locals began turning against the Taliban providing information to the Pakistani central government.

Across, the border, in Afghanistan, the US Marines are repeating the successes of the surge in Iraq and living among the locals in an attempt to win hearts and minds.

Making friends? Lots of mistakes, for sure, but the trend is positive again.

[D-Mack]

Re: US making friends in Afghanistan

U.S. Reverses Poppy Policy in Afghanistan, G-8 Ministers Told
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By Patrick Donahue

June 27 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. will reverse its policy of destroying opium crops in Afghanistan and devote “hundreds of millions of dollars” to promoting legal crops, Group of Eight foreign ministers were told today at a meeting in Italy.

U.S. special representative Richard Holbrooke told the diplomats that President Barack Obama’s administration will undo the Bush-era policy in favor of increased funding for replacing illicit poppy plants and training farmers, Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini told reporters.

“The fact that the U.S. is going from a limited amount of funding -- tens of millions to hundreds of millions in support of legal crops -- this is very important,” Frattini said after the meeting in the Adriatic port city of Trieste.

Holbrooke said this week that the Bush administration’s strategy of eradicating poppy crops in Afghanistan, one of the primary sources of funding for the Taliban insurgency, had failed. Subsistence farmers who lost their livelihood instead filled the ranks of the Taliban, he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aHYKbcoAiPAs

Thanks to high food prices Wall Street has to use every method to keep poppy production up

Afghans swap poppies for wheat as food costs soar

The Guardian, Tuesday 13 May 2008




Afghan farmers hope to capitalise on soaring food costs by growing wheat instead of poppy crops, with the fall in heroin prices further fuelling the switch.

The price of a tonne of wheat in Afghanistan has almost trebled this year, causing acute food shortages. A changeover of crops has begun in key agricultural regions, said Tekeste Tekie, country representative for the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation.

...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/13/afghanistan

[c1ue]

Re: US making friends in Afghanistan

The problem with this kind of thing is that it neither resolves the root of the issue: government/religion in Afghanistan nor does it convince the various Afghan groups that they were in a fair fight and beaten.

When soldiers fight each other - there is clear recognition of mutual suffering.

When one side shoots the other from concealment and/or technology superiority - check out the other Apache kills on youtube - it primarily breeds anger and resentment. Since the technology superiority is not going to be matched the most logical outcome is terrorism.

Use of IEDs is not much different than flying planes into buildings.

Even in this video you can see that:

1) The gentlemen in question did not appear to be even carrying weapons. The object on the left may have been a machine gun, or not, but equally certainly they had no clue whatsoever that they were under observation, nor threatened.

2) Once the shooting began the man on the left appears to be trying to start a lawnmower. Again not clear what exactly is going on. But even after all the men are dead a truck that's sitting there is blown apart.

My point is this: what exactly was accomplished by this?

Several men were blown to bits. Their kid and/or relatives will remember the horrific circumstances of their deaths; some will fear and withdraw but many others will be outraged and desire revenge.

Thousands of dollars were spent in ammunition, equipment maintenance and capital expenses, and equipment destroyed (on the Afghan side).

If it were Adolf Hitler or some such there might be some explanation. But as it is it seems the only goal (and operational plan) is something like Space Invaders: they come, we shoot them. End of story.

This didn't work before - the Soviets had gunships too, poison gas, and a lot more men on the ground.

Why will it work this time around?

[LargoWinch]

Re: US making friends in Afghanistan

The problem with this kind of thing is that it neither resolves the root of the issue: government/religion in Afghanistan nor does it convince the various Afghan groups that they were in a fair fight and beaten.

When soldiers fight each other - there is clear recognition of mutual suffering.

When one side shoots the other from concealment and/or technology superiority - check out the other Apache kills on youtube - it primarily breeds anger and resentment. Since the technology superiority is not going to be matched the most logical outcome is terrorism.

Use of IEDs is not much different than flying planes into buildings.

Even in this video you can see that:

1) The gentlemen in question did not appear to be even carrying weapons. The object on the left may have been a machine gun, or not, but equally certainly they had no clue whatsoever that they were under observation, nor threatened.

2) Once the shooting began the man on the left appears to be trying to start a lawnmower. Again not clear what exactly is going on. But even after all the men are dead a truck that's sitting there is blown apart.

My point is this: what exactly was accomplished by this?

Several men were blown to bits. Their kid and/or relatives will remember the horrific circumstances of their deaths; some will fear and withdraw but many others will be outraged and desire revenge.

Thousands of dollars were spent in ammunition, equipment maintenance and capital expenses, and equipment destroyed (on the Afghan side).

If it were Adolf Hitler or some such there might be some explanation. But as it is it seems the only goal (and operational plan) is something like Space Invaders: they come, we shoot them. End of story.

This didn't work before - the Soviets had gunships too, poison gas, and a lot more men on the ground.

Why will it work this time around?

Well said c1ue.

While on the war subject, here is attached a video from one of my artist friend "ZerlinHits" (viewer discretion is advised):

Runtime: 4 min.

[raja]

Re: US making friends in Afghanistan

The problem with this kind of thing is that it neither resolves the root of the issue: government/religion in Afghanistan nor does it convince the various Afghan groups that they were in a fair fight and beaten.

When soldiers fight each other - there is clear recognition of mutual suffering.

When one side shoots the other from concealment and/or technology superiority - check out the other Apache kills on youtube - it primarily breeds anger and resentment. Since the technology superiority is not going to be matched the most logical outcome is terrorism.

Use of IEDs is not much different than flying planes into buildings.

Even in this video you can see that:

1) The gentlemen in question did not appear to be even carrying weapons. The object on the left may have been a machine gun, or not, but equally certainly they had no clue whatsoever that they were under observation, nor threatened.

2) Once the shooting began the man on the left appears to be trying to start a lawnmower. Again not clear what exactly is going on. But even after all the men are dead a truck that's sitting there is blown apart.

My point is this: what exactly was accomplished by this?

Several men were blown to bits. Their kid and/or relatives will remember the horrific circumstances of their deaths; some will fear and withdraw but many others will be outraged and desire revenge.

Thousands of dollars were spent in ammunition, equipment maintenance and capital expenses, and equipment destroyed (on the Afghan side).

If it were Adolf Hitler or some such there might be some explanation. But as it is it seems the only goal (and operational plan) is something like Space Invaders: they come, we shoot them. End of story.

This didn't work before - the Soviets had gunships too, poison gas, and a lot more men on the ground.

Why will it work this time around?

Did the Soviets employ the "hearts and minds" approach alongside the military one -- building schools, providing medical care, etc.?

[D-Mack]

Re: US making friends in Afghanistan

They want the Taliban back, unbelievable

Afghans turn to Taliban in fear of own police

By Peter Graff
Reuters
Sunday, July 12, 2009; 9:57 AM


PANKELA, Afghanistan (Reuters) - As British troops moved into the village newly freed from Taliban control, they heard one message from the anxious locals: for God's sake do not bring back the Afghan police.

U.S. and British troops have launched a campaign to seize control of Helmand province, about half of which was in Taliban hands, and restore Afghan government institutions.

But as they advance, they are learning uncomfortable facts about their local allies: villagers say the government's police force was so brutal and corrupt that they welcomed the Taliban as liberators.

"The police would stop people driving on motorcycles, beat them and take their money," said Mohammad Gul, an elder in the village of Pankela, which British troops have been securing for the past three days after flying in by helicopter.

He pointed to two compounds of neighbors where pre-teen children had been abducted by police to be used for the local practice of "bachabazi," or sex with pre-pubescent boys.

...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...071200868.html

[kartius919]

Re: US making friends in Afghanistan

What hearts and minds approach? Thought that was propaganda for graft and corruption. Even so, doesn't look like its working for us.