This is all a good thing.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: This is all a good thing.

Blaze,

In what areas did Bush tug us to the right, other than SCOTUS appointments and tax cuts? It certainly wasn't in the traditional conservative sense of smaller, less intrusive government or fiscal prudence.

And, as much as Obama and his ilk are anathema to me, I would have supported a REAL stimulus/infrastructure package, instead of the pork-laden, lefty-wish-list monstrosity that we got. I'm also on board with "nationalizing" the zombies and "clawing back" the bonuses and prosecuting the banksters responsible for this mess. All I'm seeing is business as usual.

I guess I tend to see the dem-rep struggle as just an ongoing class war. Sometimes it makes more sense to let the upper class win (when wealth is reasonably distributed) and sometimes it makes more sense to let the middle class win.

The fact is, the upper class is more 'efficient' and intelligent about wealth distribution from an innovation / productivity enhancement point of view. Unfortunately, if wealth becomes to unequal, a lot of dissatisfaction is created and society becomes unstable, so we have to start letting the middle/lower class win until they are appeased. Then we go back to letting the more capitalistic upper classes regain.

Bush pushed power to the upper classes. Wealth got squirreled away at the top, almost to the point of silliness. Now we are moving back to the middle class.

[Scot]

Re: This is all a good thing.

You're right.
The conservative "government is the problem" lets all kneel at the altar of laissez faire, trickle down, free markets, that started with Reagan, has killed the worlds economy and now hundreds of millions will suffer.

Better to kneel before the market than to kneel before the state.

[we_are_toast]

Re: This is all a good thing.

Better to kneel before the market than to kneel before the state.

Better to get off your knees and take your life back from the banksters.

[c1ue]

Re: This is all a good thing.

I guess I tend to see the dem-rep struggle as just an ongoing class war. Sometimes it makes more sense to let the upper class win (when wealth is reasonably distributed) and sometimes it makes more sense to let the middle class win.

The fact is, the upper class is more 'efficient' and intelligent about wealth distribution from an innovation / productivity enhancement point of view.

Blaze,

I'm sorry, but I nominate the above post for the "I've gone temporarily insane" section.

Upper class is more efficient and intelligent about wealth distribution?

In riposte:

Example 1 - Paris Hilton - ALL of it

Example 2 - Dennis Kozlowski - he of Sardinia birthday party fame

Example 3 - ALL of the investment banksters

From my view - the 'upper class wealth distribution' is mostly good if you're a real estate agent, a caterer, an art dealer, or some other service industry.

Secondly the 'lower classes' simply don't have any wealth - so your assertion would seem to be contradicted each and every day of the past decade.

I'm sure you meant those who are productive business managers and what not, but lumping those who make/create with those who have and spend is a generalization too far.

[BigLandbaron]

Re: This is all a good thing.

It's a bad thing. Very bad. :mad:

Consider the DEMS as the wife, the REPS as the husband. It's just like going through a nasty divorce. You fight in court to end the marriage, but the wife creates delay after delay to postpone the inevitable while she max's out all of YOUR credit cards on a spending spree to buy everything she ever wanted (everything you said "NO!" to during the marriage in light of fiscal prudence) and then some. On top of that, she's going to get half your house, business, cars, 401k, other assets ... etc etc and you are powerless to do a thing about it. :eek:

You KNOW it's going to take you many years to recover from the unnecessary damage caused by the enraged wife's spending habit. You are forced to sit back by the courts and rule of law, essentially powerless, watching her spending oodles of your money that you don't have ... week after week, month after month and you know your life will never ever be the same again. Strong similarities to the struggle in Washington, we're generally screwed about no matter what you try to do and powerless to change the direction (for now). :mad:

This all may come down to torches and pitchforks in a couple of years, but it will be too late. USA may lose it's sovereignty, we may lose our personal rights and freedoms as guaranteed by OUR constitution, OUR dollar gets destroyed, and if you think 35% tax rate is bad ... just wait. Our founding fathers would hang most of todays politicians for treason (and not think twice about it) if they were still around. I can't believe socialism of such magnitude could ever be embraced by an elected President, Congres and the Senate.

If you want an efficient reorganization of Gov't (State & Fed) with a budget stripped of all fat and misallocated resources to happen so fast it makes your head spin ... let the big banks fail NOW!!

[jimmygu3]

Re: This is all a good thing.

It's a bad thing. Very bad. :mad:

Consider the DEMS as the wife, the REPS as the husband. It's just like going through a nasty divorce. You fight in court to end the marriage, but the wife creates delay after delay to postpone the inevitable while she max's out all of YOUR credit cards on a spending spree to buy everything she ever wanted (everything you said "NO!" to during the marriage in light of fiscal prudence) and then some. On top of that, she's going to get half your house, business, cars, 401k, other assets ... etc etc and you are powerless to do a thing about it. :eek:

You KNOW it's going to take you many years to recover from the unnecessary damage caused by the enraged wife's spending habit. You are forced to sit back by the courts and rule of law, essentially powerless, watching her spending oodles of your money that you don't have ... week after week, month after month and you know your life will never ever be the same again. Strong similarities to the struggle in Washington, we're generally screwed about no matter what you try to do and powerless to change the direction (for now). :mad:

This all may come down to torches and pitchforks in a couple of years, but it will be too late. USA may lose it's sovereignty, we may lose our personal rights and freedoms as guaranteed by OUR constitution, OUR dollar gets destroyed, and if you think 35% tax rate is bad ... just wait. Our founding fathers would hang most of todays politicians for treason (and not think twice about it) if they were still around. I can't believe socialism of such magnitude could ever be embraced by an elected President, Congres and the Senate.

If you want an efficient reorganization of Gov't (State & Fed) with a budget stripped of all fat and misallocated resources to happen so fast it makes your head spin ... let the big banks fail NOW!!

Clever, blaming everything on the Dems and calling them a bunch of selfish, irrational women, all in one shot. And the poor victim, the Republicans.

I'll liken it to a divorce of a couple I know. The husband (R) cheated on the wife, lost his job, blew lots of money and ended up in alcohol rehab. The wife (D) is trying to make the best of a terrible situation, take care of the kids, put food on the table and pay the rent. She keeps finding more and more irresponsible things he did all the time, like credit cards she didn't know about and bad long-term choices he made. There's no great solution. Every decision has positive and negative consequences that must be weighed.

Anyone can see that it is the excesses and irresponsibility of the LAST 8 YEARS that put us in this crisis, but people like you still manage to blame it all on the Democrats. Maybe this stimulus isn't the greatest, I don't know. But the Republicans had their chance and they blew it, now we're trying to clean up this mess.

Jimmy

[cjppjc]

Re: This is all a good thing.

Anyone can see that it is the excesses and irresponsibility of the LAST 8 YEARS that put us in this crisis, but people like you still manage to blame it all on the Democrats. Maybe this stimulus isn't the greatest, I don't know. But the Republicans had their chance and they blew it, now we're trying to clean up this mess.

Jimmy

Good luck with that.

[jtabeb]

Re: This is all a good thing.

Clever, blaming everything on the Dems and calling them a bunch of selfish, irrational women, all in one shot. And the poor victim, the Republicans.

I'll liken it to a divorce of a couple I know. The husband (R) cheated on the wife, lost his job, blew lots of money and ended up in alcohol rehab. The wife (D) is trying to make the best of a terrible situation, take care of the kids, put food on the table and pay the rent. She keeps finding more and more irresponsible things he did all the time, like credit cards she didn't know about and bad long-term choices he made. There's no great solution. Every decision has positive and negative consequences that must be weighed.

Anyone can see that it is the excesses and irresponsibility of the LAST 8 YEARS that put us in this crisis, but people like you still manage to blame it all on the Democrats. Maybe this stimulus isn't the greatest, I don't know. But the Republicans had their chance and they blew it, now we're trying to clean up this mess.

Jimmy

Good job calling this spade for what it is (a SPADE)!

[BigLandbaron]

Re: This is all a good thing.

I don't believe it would have made any difference if McCain was President instead of Obama ... we would be in this same spot and the DEMS would be attacking the Republicans for spending all the money. It's a no-win when your party is holding the hot potato.

If you like, swap DEMS and REPS in my previous email ... doesn't matter to me. I blame both parties for this mess ... each had a big hand in it since 1980. Sorry if it sounded half-cocked, I had just finished my 3rd coffee as I typed it this morning. I don't like the way things are going ... and I vented a bit. I figured someone would get strirred up by it.

I know you get my gyst, and are probably just as frustrated by it all as I am. I hope Ron Paul can win over some of the DEMS and REPS in the next few months ... to have a chance to put an end to this monetary madness.

[jtabeb]

Re: This is all a good thing.

I hope Ron Paul can win over some of the DEMS and REPS in the next few months ... to have a chance to put an end to this monetary madness.

Amen to that!

[tsetsefly]

Re: This is all a good thing.

Amen to that!

I second that.

I find the argument going on here a bit funny, where people see a difference between Democrats and Republicans, they are the same thing, especially when it comes to economics, they just want to grant the favors to different groups, they both spend as much and both have no idea on how to solve this crisis.

[roxtar]

Re: This is all a good thing.

We need smart street camera and DNA policies that balance privacy and security.

Yeah, centrist. I get it.

[Master Shake]

Re: This is all a good thing.

Anyone can see that it is the excesses and irresponsibility of the LAST 8 YEARS that put us in this crisis, but people like you still manage to blame it all on the Democrats. Maybe this stimulus isn't the greatest, I don't know. But the Republicans had their chance and they blew it, now we're trying to clean up this mess.

Jimmy

If you think this crisis was caused in the last eight years, you aren't thinking straight. Glass-Stegall was passed by a Pub Congress and enthusiastically signed by Clinton. The Dems have been larger recipients of FIRE economy political donations than the Pubs, but they have both been bought off. Both share equally in the blame. Obama is every bit an unqualified dilletant as Bush, but with much better rhetorical skills. The difference is that while Bush actually tried to govern as a centrist, due to his miniscule margin of victory, Obama really thinks he has a mandate to govern as if he were still an ACORN community organizer.

Both your analogy and the original were off: the wife is a vindictive, scheming harpy, and the husband a boorish drunk with no spine. I don't think it's good now that the wife has the upper hand.

[thedanimal]

Re: This is all a good thing.

The difference is that while Bush actually tried to govern as a centrist, due to his miniscule margin of victory, Obama really thinks he has a mandate to govern as if he were still an ACORN community organizer.

You have an interesting world view.

[jtabeb]

Re: This is all a good thing.

You have an interesting world view.

Fuck the political inbashing, it's just a god damned waste of time. It's policies we need, and there is a lot of policy perscriptions from BOTH parties that are necessary for a sustainable recovery.

(The Rep stimulus provision of a payroll tax holiday would have done more to aid the lower and middle class than most of the provisions of the stimulus bill as passed).

Policy, not politics.

Politics is a stupid power play game and will not fix this, policy MIGHT.

(Disclosure I gave $200 to Obama and $400 to RP, voted for Obama since RP was not he nominee, would have voted for DK, if he were not so inept in the public lime-light).