Trump to win?

[GRG55]

Re: Trump to win?

Truth be told, GRG, me and the misses had a pretty good 5am belly laugh when we heard the news, and not for any reason other than the coronation was interrupted again and the queen would never get her crown. Neither of us was too proud to vote for her. But we felt like we had to. And still now we think maybe it's possible the US avoided war--cold or hot--with Russia by electing Trump. Don't know if you follow too much media from south of the border, but the press were starting to beat the war drums at Moscow louder and louder as the election approached.

So we're already moving on. Got some worries...trying to read the tea leaves as things take shape...but far, far away from rioting or shedding tears. Besides which, I'm full of that old world culture...far better at fighting than mourning...

...Oh, crap....
Was I supposed to be moving on or something?
Where were we....................


Pffft. Nice try. But youtube tells me you were being a sneaky foreigner and as a good 'Murican Free Market Soldier of Mammon®, it's my duty to beg UMPG Publishing to let me somehow find a way to pay them for the right to "get over it!"

Wasn't intended to be critical of your always thoughtful and thought provoking posts dcarrigg.

Just seemed a convenient place to insert a potentially entertaining music link that might distract and provide momentary relief from the stream of reports of riots, public protests and stories of counselling and exam suspensions for our apparently fragile campus residents. [Mrs. GRG55 has a theory the apparently heightened emotional fragility of so many of today's youth might have something to do with high divorce rates and such; but that's an explosive topic best left for others on another thread on some other forum. Me, I think they should just "Get Over It".]

Or: Hitler finds out Donald Trump has won the presidential election

the only reason to dwell on failures is to learn from them.

here's a video of a talk by thomas frank, author of "what’s the matter with kansas?" and more recently “listen liberal” about the democratic party’s choice in the 1990's to turn away from working people and organized labor and instead identify itself as the party of educated professionals.

it's been a few days since i watched it, but iirc he explains the obama victories by saying that obama got the working class vote by presenting himself as a change agent. but then, of course, he bailed out the wall st. banks. i don’t ususally watch videos because most commonly the information isn’t dense enough to repay the time investment. but i found this talk interesting and worthwhile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbt8gJ7EW8E

in my recent readings i came across someone saying that "the democrats used to be the party of decatur [illinois, the home of caterpiller tractor], but now it's the party of martha's vineyard."

I've posted this observation before on iTulip. The USA seems (seemed?) unique in that most everywhere else in the world the primary motivation to seek political power is to use the position for economic gain. In the USA, historically, it has been the opposite - one achieves a significant economic advantage through business or other "American Dream" pursuits and then uses that wealth to achieve political influence. Even in the Democratic "Party of the People" the leaders historically generally came from economically privileged families - Roosevelt, Kennedy, Carter.

It is interesting (and perhaps instructive) that, just like some sub-Saharan African kleptocracy, the Clintons reversed that pattern completely.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Trump to win?

Just seemed a convenient place to insert a potentially entertaining music link that might distract and provide momentary relief

I don't mean to offend anyone but I nearly broke out laughing when I was listening to people seriously speculating as to why Trump won:

"It's George W. Bush's fault."

[dcarrigg]

Re: Trump to win?

Wasn't intended to be critical of your always thoughtful and thought provoking posts dcarrigg.

Just seemed a convenient place to insert a potentially entertaining music link that might distract and provide momentary relief from the stream of reports of riots, public protests and stories of counselling and exam suspensions for our apparently fragile campus residents.

I was just joking around and having a little fun too.

It is interesting (and perhaps instructive) that, just like some sub-Saharan African kleptocracy, the Clintons reversed that pattern completely.

I totally agree. Nobody has ever monetized the presidency quite like those two did. Harding might have tried...

[jk]

Re: Trump to win?

a dark vision from chris hedges

It’s Worse Than You Think

Widespread social unrest will ignite when Donald Trump’s base realizes it has been betrayed. I do not know when this will happen. But that it will happen is certain. Investments in the stocks of the war industry, internal security and the prison-industrial complex have skyrocketed since Trump won the presidency. There is a lot of money to be made from a militarized police state....

“It is very similar to late Weimar Germany,” Noam Chomsky told me with uncanny insight when I spoke with him six years ago. “The parallels are striking. There was also tremendous disillusionment with the parliamentary system....

“The United States is extremely lucky that no honest, charismatic figure has arisen,” Chomsky went on. “Every charismatic figure is such an obvious crook that he destroys himself, like [Joseph] McCarthy or [Richard] Nixon or the evangelist preachers. If somebody comes along who is charismatic and honest, this country is in real trouble because of the frustration, disillusionment, the justified anger and the absence of any coherent response. What are people supposed to think if someone says ‘I have got an answer: We have an enemy’? There it was the Jews. Here it will be the illegal immigrants and the blacks. We will be told that white males are a persecuted minority. We will be told we have to defend ourselves and the honor of the nation. Military force will be exalted. People will be beaten up. This could become an overwhelming force. And if it happens, it will be more dangerous than Germany. The United States is the world power. Germany was powerful but had more powerful antagonists. I don’t think all this is very far away. If the polls are accurate, it is not the Republicans but the right-wing Republicans, the crazed Republicans, who will sweep the next election.”

and so on

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Trump to win?

and Taibbi's mea culpa...

Tuesday, November 8th, early afternoon. Outside the Trump Tower in Manhattan, a man in the telltale red Make America Great Again hat taps me on the shoulder.

"You press?" he says, looking at a set of lanyards around my neck.

I nod.

"Fuck yourself," he says, thrusting a middle finger in my face. He then turns around and walks a boy of about five away from me down Fifth Avenue, a hand gently tousling his son's hair.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-wrong-w449783

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

JK you are being a bit alarmist. The true alt right wing may make up 5% of the population just like the left wing making up 5%.

I remember the late 60's and everybody acting like SDS was a far larger risk. They were just a bunch of loud, cursing punks.

No, there won't be forced prayer or Weimar Germany. These are not and will never be America.

Trump will wind up more towards the center than any realize and his conservative base will love it. Hell, Bill Clinton moved to the center and even having sex with an intern (shades of sexual harassment) his base still loved him.

[touchring]

Re: Trump to win?

“The United States is extremely lucky that no honest, charismatic figure has arisen,” Chomsky went on. “Every charismatic figure is such an obvious crook that he destroys himself, like [Joseph] McCarthy or [Richard] Nixon or the evangelist preachers.

Is there such a thing as an honest successful billionaire real estate salesman?

How do you sell real estate if you tell your customers all the detects, for example, if there's a storm, the roof will leak. It's almost impossible to sell anything if you're honest.

I think Chomsky is making a confusion between honesty and integrity. There's no such thing as an honest businessman, much less an honest hollywood actor. But a businessman can still have integrity without being honest.

Also, ever wonder what makes Hilter honest??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho...ald_.282004.29

Fitzgerald appraised many of Hitler’s publicly known traits as autistic, particularly his various obsessions, his lifeless gaze, his social awkwardness, his lack of personal friendships, and his tendency toward monologue-like speeches, which, according to Fitzgerald, resulted from an inability to have real conversations.^[78]

[shiny!]

Re: Trump to win?

jk, the widespreading social unrest at this point is being funded by Geore Soros. He's providing blocks of busses to transport demonstrators, and agitators to inflame them into violence in an attempt to overturn the election. Just as Clinton's team hired actors to incite violence at Trump rallies, when they stopped doing that the violence miraculously stopped. If Soros would stop interfering in our affairs, the violence would soon stop. Unless it goes on for too long. If that happens it may be like a forest fire that gets out of control. Soros is an arsonist, plain and simple.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Trump to win?

JK you are being a bit alarmist. The true alt right wing may make up 5% of the population just like the left wing making up 5%.

I remember the late 60's and everybody acting like SDS was a far larger risk. They were just a bunch of loud, cursing punks.

I worry about it, although I place a ton of blame on Obama's Justice Department.

When those lunatic Bundys took over a federal highway and federal lands in Nevada, the feds should have showed them what happens to thugs who try to steal from Uncle Sam. Instead they got kid gloves and no sentences. So what happened? They moved two states up into Oregon, captured and terrorized a whole small town and a US federal buidling, trashed it, prevented kids from going to school and made work-a-day townsfolk lose their jobs, pointed loaded guns at innocent passers-by daily for a month, people got killed, and they got sentenced to nothing for it. Not even the same sentence a 15 year old kid with mental disabilities would get for having a half-a-gram of marijuana. They just said, "OK, you're free to go!"

I mean, imagine how scary it must have been to be one of the poor people of Burns. They bravely got together, despite the intimidation of dozens of heavily armed anti-American thugs from out-of-state, and held a town meeting to vote to ask them to leave. And their brave Sheriff, outmanned and outgunned, did go ask. But did they keep their promise and leave if the town wanted them out? Hell no! They stayed until their was blood. Just like there was blood from that murderer Ammon's daddy was hiding during his standoff in Nevada.

Well, you know they're going to do it again, bigger and bloodier next time.

I just hope Trump has the spine to slap them with everything from sedition to disturbing the peace and give them a long sentence in a dark cell somewhere far away from their millionaire ranches...Because the Obama DOJ dropped the ball big time on this one.

I mean, I don't have too much hope for it. I doubt it will happen. But I have to admit, it's possible. The Obama Justice Department was pretty spectacularly terrible. None of these obvious terrorist Bundys went to jail. Not a single banker or white collar crook in the whole mortgage mess went to jail. Anti-trust law went nearly totally and completely unenforced. In fact, any crime FIRE did was met with a civil suit and a settlement. They didn't even try for criminal charges as policy. And Warren beat them up on that. I wish more Republicans were in her corner during those hearings. The only one that would speak up once in a while was Vitter, strangely.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Trump to win?

jk, the widespreading social unrest at this point is being funded by Geore Soros. He's providing blocks of busses to transport demonstrators, and agitators to inflame them into violence in an attempt to overturn the election. Just as Clinton's team hired actors to incite violence at Trump rallies, when they stopped doing that the violence miraculously stopped. If Soros would stop interfering in our affairs, the violence would soon stop. Unless it goes on for too long. If that happens it may be like a forest fire that gets out of control. Soros is an arsonist, plain and simple.

How bout a link? Surely something better than this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkKWqlBJsU0

Birmingham
March on Washington
Vietnam Moratorium marches
Kent State
Occupy
Black Lives Matter................

every protest movement in my lifetime has been blamed on rich outside agitators.

Exactly the same after World War 2 when labor strikes swept the country year after year.

When Truman nationalized the steel industry and the railroads....

It was all a commie plot.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Trump to win?

jk, the widespreading social unrest at this point is being funded by Geore Soros. He's providing blocks of busses to transport demonstrators, and agitators to inflame them into violence in an attempt to overturn the election. Just as Clinton's team hired actors to incite violence at Trump rallies, when they stopped doing that the violence miraculously stopped. If Soros would stop interfering in our affairs, the violence would soon stop. Unless it goes on for too long. If that happens it may be like a forest fire that gets out of control. Soros is an arsonist, plain and simple.

Shiny, i think this one might fall into the category that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Can you provide a link so I can see more background?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Trump to win?

How bout a link? Surely something better than this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkKWqlBJsU0

Birmingham
March on Washington
Vietnam Moratorium marches
Kent State
Occupy
Black Lives Matter................

every protest movement in my lifetime has been blamed on rich outside agitators.

Exactly the same after World War 2 when labor strikes swept the country year after year.

When Truman nationalized the steel industry and the railroads....

It was all a commie plot.

I can't speak for outside New England, but I know the protests up here are headed by the typical student and arts groups that are not funded by Soros. Lots of the same faces you'd see at the Occupy things or city farmers' market day or playing guitar on stage during a folk festival. Of course, we also have a socialist independent on town council, and the socialist groups show up too...I don't think they exist naturally in other parts of the US as much. But student groups are the core of it coming out of the universities, and those clubs are basically funded with a couple thousand dollars of student activity fee money. Some good chunk of the kids are wealthier themselves and have the money and time to do it. Others are not, but are philosophically opposed. Still others are there for identity reasons who feel fearful for one reason or another, LGBT kids, minority kids, etc.

FWIW, the organizations that are Soros-funded that I follow are sending out e-mails like mad, but it seems like their main interest is attacking the Electoral College, probably simply in an effort to de-legitimize Trump's victory on the edges. But none of them have called for joining protests. Even MoveOn has no events near me. I think this reaction is probably a bit more organic. People live in a bubble. Their facebook feeds all turn to outrage.

You ask me, if you want to be outraged about a candidate, the time to express that is before the election and at the voting booth, not after the process is over when you don't like the results. But, this is mostly young people. They've only known Obama. They'll be learning this lesson 'on the job' so to speak.

[shiny!]

Re: Trump to win?

I'm not ignoring the request for links, just very busy the next two days. If I can't find anything more substantive to back my claim then I will admit I've been had. It's never my intention to spread falsehoods.

Soros has backed Moveon.org in the past, and Moveon is organizing these rallies and sending out emails like the following to stir up panic. The author of the article this email comes from says that Soros is not involved, but just based on my gut hunch I think he is. The panic is real but feels too contrived. It wouldn't be the first time that outside agitators played on people's emotions to accomplish a goal:

“This is a disaster. We fought our hearts out to avert this reality. But now it’s here,” MoveOn.org staff wrote to members on Wednesday. “The new president-elect and many of his most prominent supporters have targeted, demeaned, and threatened millions of us—and millions of our friends, family, and loved ones. Both chambers of Congress remain in Republican hands. We are entering an era of profound and unprecedented challenge, a time of danger for our communities and our country. In this moment, we have to take care of ourselves, our families, and our friends—especially those of us who are on the front lines facing hate, including Latinos, women, immigrants, refugees, Black people, Muslims, LGBT Americans, and so many others. And we need to make it clear that we will continue to stand together.”

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Trump to win?

I'm not ignoring the request for links, just very busy the next two days...It's never my intention to spread falsehoods....

Thanks Shiny!

[gwynedd1]

Re: Trump to win?

Last time I checked Trump wanted to ban them all from the USA. Of course that doesn't stop one from mailing a cheque.

You might want to recall that it was a Republican prez that invaded Iraq, destabilized the region, allowed the Iranians to exert the most influence in that country, and set the stage for what we have in the region today.

You might want to recall that under Obama that fronts were opened up in Syria, Libya and Ukraine. After watching him fulfill every neoliberal's fantasy of financier immunity and global finacial empire, I watched him cash in the checks of neocons.

That some real democratic core values we have been seeing lately.