Trump to win?

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Trump to win?

You make a good point too, regarding the word corruption.

What I am trying to do is bring the matter of the, (agreed; civil service), responsibility to the people into view. What we have seen develop over the last few decades is the rise of the national interest over and above the needs of the people; wherein the "Nation" has become the interests of the civil services. That is a dichotomy that needs recognition. Again, returning to the word corruption we need to remember that in any court of the law, if any of us step back and knowingly let another; whomever; break the law; we too become equally responsible. It is all very well saying that "I have been given orders" when the orders involve not telling a true picture to the people to hide unhelpful facts.

Again, if the civil service set out to silence a critic, simply because such criticism opens an honest, reasonable debate, regarding the actions of the civil servants, at what point does the word ethics come into view? Everyone has their eye on the Clinton's of the world; From my viewpoint, we all need to take a very close look at the underlying mechanisms that allowed the political to create such a dysfunctional system and then take no responsibility for the dysfunction. It takes two to tango!

While you are certainly correct, I see no hope that we will ever see civil servants standing up to call out misbehavior by their superiors.
Certain cohorts self-select. Whip-smart people with courage and vision who are bold in their actions don't seek jobs as clerks issuing building permits.
I know quite a few career civil servants very well, and they tend to be meek, careful people proud of their ability to understand and follow the office rules, fearful of losing their jobs and pensions.
In the US civil servants who blow the whistle on misbehavior get punished badly.
Edward Snowden springs to mind.

I doubt we will ever be able to count on civil servants to notice misbehavior and rush to accuse elected offials.
It just isn't in them, as a cohort.

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

Woody, I'm not playing 4-D chess here...

No sweat, D.C. Didn't mean to imply any gamesmanship on your part. That's never once been your style and you're always a straight shooter.

If it's okay with you I'd much rather table this particular issue and simply reaffirm my view that it's a settled matter and that I have nothing further to add to the discussion.

[santafe2]

Re: Trump to win?

The Democratic Party as currently organized is a zombie, a dead man walking.

I think it's the Sanders / Warren party. Warren was asked today who her running mate would be in 2020. This time she did not say no, she gave the usual political answer, there's a lot to accomplish, etc. etc. As I said in the post you responded to, the Dems are mourning. We will come out of this quickly and move forward. Your candidate and his party will likely do a lot of damage to the US over the next four years. Hopefully that can be repaired. When anarchists take control, life can be very unpredictable. We'll know more by this coming summer.

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...OP-sweeps.html

[Chris Coles]

Re: Trump to win?

While you are certainly correct, I see no hope that we will ever see civil servants standing up to call out misbehavior by their superiors.
Certain cohorts self-select. Whip-smart people with courage and vision who are bold in their actions don't seek jobs as clerks issuing building permits.
I know quite a few career civil servants very well, and they tend to be meek, careful people proud of their ability to understand and follow the office rules, fearful of losing their jobs and pensions.
In the US civil servants who blow the whistle on misbehavior get punished badly.
Edward Snowden springs to mind.

I doubt we will ever be able to count on civil servants to notice misbehavior and rush to accuse elected offials.
It just isn't in them, as a cohort.

I am reminded of the occasional western movie where the very same people suddenly realise that they too have to step up to the plate to act; in the interests of a free society, where the good people matter more than forever standing silent, watching the criminals continuing to strut around the town without fear of any consequences.

Over the years, I have met many whip smart people in very low paid and seeming inconsequential jobs; yes, agreed, some because they had previously spoken out and paid the price. But, sooner or later, we all have to step forward and take responsibility, or face a future without any regard for truth; law and order.

If we talk about this openly, one day, they will understand that they have responsibilities too.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Trump to win?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...OP-sweeps.html

They all took the figures for US unemployment as truth; when many out here honestly believe that the unemployment figures are a blatant lie; not 4.5% but nearer 23%. In which case, if they believed the figures given to them, then why would they feel they had any further responsibility towards the poor working people of their nation?

If the unemployment figures are in fact nearer 23%, then that simple fact may become the trigger for the complete collapse of many erstwhile leading careers.

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

I think it's the Sanders / Warren party. Warren was asked today who her running mate would be in 2020. This time she did not say no, she gave the usual political answer, there's a lot to accomplish, etc. etc. As I said in the post you responded to, the Dems are mourning. We will come out of this quickly and move forward. Your candidate and his party will likely do a lot of damage to the US over the next four years. Hopefully that can be repaired. When anarchists take control, life can be very unpredictable. We'll know more by this coming summer.

If Sanders and Warren can pull it off, more power to them although it might be that Bernie's time has passed. Besides, the smart move would be to run someone (way) under 70 and firmly planted in the 21st Century as a way of demonstrating a clear break from the past. First the let's see if the party can purge the Clintons and then we'll be in a better position to talk about what might come next.

I'm not sure where your bravado and optimism comes from seeing how similar assurances were made on Monday morning only to be dashed so thoroughly and unexpectedly Wednesday morning. The Democrats are still walking through the stages of grief, I get it, and we will see if and when they can free themselves of denial as to the reasons they were routed and what they need to do to win back these voters.

As of now, I see them stuck in the propaganda bubble they made for themselves and doubling down on the ridiculous assertions made during the campaign. The anti-Trump riots, small as they are, should give people some idea as to the mindset of the most extreme and unhinged on the Clinton cohort. If the shoe were on the other foot at it was anti-Hillary riots, you can be sure it would be the lead story every cycle. On every talking head and pundit's mouth you'd hear "why isn't Trump making his supporters stop rioting" but no such demand is made on Hillary. Par for the course, but makes me think the institutional and individual failures among the Democratic Party and it's MSM adjuncts that brought us a Trump landslide aren't about to change.

[GRG55]

Re: Trump to win?

If Sanders and Warren can pull it off, more power to them although it might be that Bernie's time has passed. Besides, the smart move would be to run someone (way) under 70 and firmly planted in the 21st Century as a way of demonstrating a clear break from the past. First the let's see if the party can purge the Clintons and then we'll be in a better position to talk about what might come next.

I'm not sure where your bravado and optimism comes from seeing how similar assurances were made on Monday morning only to be dashed so thoroughly and unexpectedly Wednesday morning. The Democrats are still walking through the stages of grief, I get it, and we will see if and when they can free themselves of denial as to the reasons they were routed and what they need to do to win back these voters.

As of now, I see them stuck in the propaganda bubble they made for themselves and doubling down on the ridiculous assertions made during the campaign. The anti-Trump riots, small as they are, should give people some idea as to the mindset of the most extreme and unhinged on the Clinton cohort. If the shoe were on the other foot at it was anti-Hillary riots, you can be sure it would be the lead story every cycle. On every talking head and pundit's mouth you'd hear "why isn't Trump making his supporters stop rioting" but no such demand is made on Hillary. Par for the course, but makes me think the institutional and individual failures among the Democratic Party and it's MSM adjuncts that brought us a Trump landslide aren't about to change.

If the Dems get pushed to the far left by Warren et al the vacuum in the center of the spectrum will give rising Republican talent like Rubio all the room they need to institutionalize the results of this election for a generation. That's the real danger facing the Dems...years in the wilderness.

[verdo]

Re: Trump Appointments

I'm starting to get a bad deja-vu. According to Zerocred, Trump is considering his financial advisor, Mnuchin, a 17-year-veteran of Goldman Sachs for Treasury Secretary: "[Mnuchin] ... who now works as the chairman and chief executive of the private investment firm Dune Capital Management. Mnuchin has also worked for OneWest Bank, which was later sold to CIT Group in 2015."

This, IMO is akin to Obama naming Geithner to Treasury.

what a shocker! (not). I can't wait to see how wall street manages to solidify their control in ways they've only dreamed of under Trumps administration.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Trump Appointments

what a shocker! (not). I can't wait to see how wall street manages to solidify their control in ways they've only dreamed of under Trumps administration.

It remains to be seen. I hate to be the person who seems to be the Trump apologist but it may be that the names being thrown about are the Joseph Kennedys of today: people who know where the bodies are buried and are useful in that regard. They must be kept on a tight leash.

I'm fairly certain Trump will make mistakes with certain appointments. I am hoping that when he makes a mistake, he is very quick to take corrective action: "You're fired," and appoint someone else.

Didn't Trump get rid of two campaign managers during this election? I cannot recall any other other presidential candidate in the past few decades having changed campaign managers even once.

[jk]

Re: Trump to win?

If the Dems get pushed to the far left by Warren et al the vacuum in the center of the spectrum will give rising Republican talent like Rubio all the room they need to institutionalize the results of this election for a generation. That's the real danger facing the Dems...years in the wilderness.

i worry that eliz warren, as much as i like her, could become the american jeremy corbyn. the dems don't have a bench.

[lektrode]

Re: Trump to win?

If the Dems get pushed to the far left by Warren et al the vacuum in the center of the spectrum will give rising Republican talent like Rubio all the room they need to institutionalize the results of this election for a generation. That's the real danger facing the Dems...years in the wilderness.

yeah and altho it's more than a bit disappointing, my respect for warren went right into the dumper
the day she fell into it 'with her'

which proves conclusively how she's just another demorat bloviator who 'stands for nothing, falls for anything' including being OK with all the documented and nefarious to just flatout criminal activities...

it's quite a bunch that the clintonistas have 'inspired' aint it?

Anti-Trump Protests Continue Across The US Overnight: Burn American Flags, Smash Windows

• 131,700
• Nov 10, 2016 12:28 PM

but, but, but....
guess there's not enough 'safe spaces' to keep them... uhhh... contained?

Oakland Mayor Explains Why Local Police Can't Stop Looting Rioters

"I want to explain why it seems our police department cannot stop them. The police who are responsible for the safety of the crowds and our community during these protests are very often the target themselves. When they step in to stop an act of vandalism while it is happening, they become the new focal point for the crowds which can lead to an escalation of violence, not a decrease in the vandalism."

• 67,869
• Nov 10, 2016 3:30 PM

and over there in that ohhhh soooo 'progressive and tolerant' capitol of the PNW,
they're just 'voicing their frustrations' (but NOT over bernie getting f'kd-over?)

Stun Grenades, Rubber Bullets Deployed In Portland After Anti-Trump Protest Devolves Into "Riot"

• Nov 11, 2016 8:01 AM

particularly in the bluestate areas where dead people were voting and voting often/multiple times at that:

Trump Voter Beaten By Black Mob: "You Voted Trump. You Gonna Pay For That Sh*t"

“You voted Trump,” the mob screams, “You gonna pay for that sh*t.”Another woman shouts “beat his ass,” while another man is heard laughing before remarking, “Don’t vote Trump.”

• Nov 10, 2016 9:50 PM

not that you'll ever see anything like that on theCNN (clinton news network)

and hey...
NOW look who's NOT accepting the results:

Over 2 Million Hillary Supporters Sign Petition To Overturn Election Results

Having called the now president-elect's response "horrifying," accusing him of "talking down our democracy," it turns out that Clinton’s supporters are the ones who are refusing to accept the election results as they were announced in the early morning of Nov. 9.

• Nov 11, 2016 8:14 AM

yes, its just soooo inspiring, all of this open mindedness and tolerance for viewpoints they dont agree with.

and look who's 'delivering' the retribution (none other than 'the new economy' king pins)

Grubhub CEO Faces Backlash After Telling Trump-Supporting Employees "You Have No Place Here"

Many faux-liberal tech firm CEOs have responded to the election of Donald Trump in the same "stunned" memos to staff reassuring them "our firm is a safe space" with some even promising to fund a so-called CaliExit secession from the Union. However, as Fox News reports, GrubHub CEO Matt Maloney has - to some who have begun to boycott the food-delivery app - gone too far by implying in a company-wide email that Trump-supporting staff are not welcome and should resign.

• Nov 10, 2016 9:25 PM

it's a good thing that hill&co's, along with all their fans - have 'taken the high road'
and encouraging level headed civility within themselves and their loyal minions....
an all that:

Caught On Tape: Devastated Democrats Freaking Out Over Trump Victory

"This has to be a joke. I can not believe this is happening. I'm literally about to ******* kill myself and I'm not kidding. You better ******* fix this shit right now. I'm literally going to die. I need an ambulance."

• 95,687
• Nov 10, 2016 5:00 PM

with some inspiring and 'progressive' advice for a more 'hopeful future'

"Democrats Failed Us Miserably" Michael Moore Unleashes Post-Election "To-Do" List

Having nailed the results (and reasons) for Trump's election victory when all the liberal intelligentsia had their head in the sand, filmmaker Michael Moore exclaims that "Democrats failed us miserably" and lays out his 'morning-after to-do list' for the country.

• 140,600
• Nov 10, 2016 3:31 PM

i just hope, for your sake GRG - that your town doesnt get overrun by the 'wave of refugees' that
are apparently going to be fleeing the US - like any day now, eh?

Celebrities Urge Fans To "Fight Trump", Say They Were Only Joking About Leaving The US

• 51,171
• Nov 10, 2016 11:40 AM

[jk]

Re: Trump to win?

democrats are hoping that ruth bader-ginsburg [83yo] and stephen breyer [78yo] live to 100, and they even have good wishes for anthony kennedy.

[LazyBoy]

Re: Trump to win?

This nails it, IMO.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/10/trump...ommentary.html

Trump's victory over Clinton was sealed 40 years ago

...
Democratic leaders—including emerging ones like a young, charismatic Arkansas laywer named Bill Clinton—saw a fork in the road, and the path to victory was in abandoning working people.
Sure, in later years, Bill and new wife, Hillary Clinton, would talk the populist talk as they began their climb to power in Arkansas politics on the road to the White House.

But as Ronald Reagan assumed power and began America's shift to a country based on social Darwinism and "I'm gonna get mine," the Democratic Party, now led by the neoliberal, Clinton-backed Democratic Leadership Council, sat to the side—complicit.

Seizing on the loosening of regulations and laws that previously kept corporate money and excessive special interest money out of elections, the Democratic Party began catering to Wall Street, big oil, big pharmaceutical companies, and the "professional class."