Trump to win?

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

i have the misfortune of understanding both positions and sympathizing with both.

Then for goodness sake let your conscience lead you and move toward the greater good.

Leave the strategery and guile to others and go with your heart. How many times in our lifetime have we had the opportunity to make an affirmative choice for the better, for the future, in this world of lesser evilism?

For the life of me, I can't fathom the downside for an individual citizen and voter.

[GRG55]

Re: Trump to win?

Apologies if someone has already posted this link prior. From Susan Webber (who blogs under the pen name Yves Smith):

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...clinton-213931


"...What they also object to is that the larger bloc of Sanders voters has been treated with abuse and contempt by the Clinton camp, despite the fact that their positions—such as strengthening Social Security and Medicare, stronger educational funding and higher minimum wages—have for decades polled by solid majorities or, at worst, ample pluralities in the electorate at large.

By contrast, the Democratic Party in the Clinton and Obama administrations has consistently embraced and implemented policies that strip workers of economic and legal rights to benefit investors and the elite professionals that serve them. Over time, the “neoliberal” economic order—which sees only good, never bad, in the relentless untrammeling of capital and the deregulation of markets—has created an unacceptable level of economic insecurity and distress for those outside the 1 percent and the elite professionals who serve them...

...Yet the Clinton campaign is in such denial about this that it has become vitriolic in its verbal and tactical attacks on Sanders and his supporters—rather than recognizing that the stunning success of his campaign is proof of their abject policy failures. The message is clear: The Clintons believe, as Bill himself put it, that the true progressives have nowhere to go..."

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Trump to win?

However, to demean a candidate’s character as dishonest and untrustworthy based on innuendo and dishonest proclamations, especially a candidate of the same party is despicable and a typically Republican ploy. It is why the perpetual claims from too many on the “Left” that Democratic presidential candidate and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is dishonest and untrustworthy are beyond reprehensible.

I can think of over one hundred million reasons why the Clintons cannot be trusted. Furthermore, a very good portion of those one hundred million reasons are 100% attributable to Hillary Clinton herself.

This is not innuendo and dishonest proclamation. The tax returns of the Clintons make it clear those one hundred million reasons are real and I am aware of no honest, pure politician (I consider a pure politican a person who has never held a job outside of government) ever becoming as wealthy as the Clintons have become.

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

China and Russia Think Clinton Is Dangerous And Trump Isn't:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQneh-D1KA

[santafe2]

Re: Trump to win?

i have the misfortune of understanding both positions and sympathizing with both.

Can you clarify jk? It seems to me there are currently not 2 positions but 3, two of which I agree with and one with which I don't. Vote Clinton 1st and Sanders 2nd. Vote Sanders 1st and Clinton 2nd. Vote Sanders 1st and Trump 2nd. I don't think I've read any posters here who espouse Trump 1st and if they do, there's no requirement for a 2nd choice and I'm fairly sure no one would choose Clinton 1st and Trump 2nd.
And, since I wasn't completely clear in my post to Woodsman, let me say that if Bernie were clearly ahead, I would back him now and if he pulls off a come-from-behind miracle at the convention, I'll back him. There is no circumstance under which I would support Trump.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Trump to win?

Apologies if someone has already posted this link prior. From Susan Webber (who blogs under the pen name Yves Smith):

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...clinton-213931


"...What they also object to is that the larger bloc of Sanders voters has been treated with abuse and contempt by the Clinton camp, despite the fact that their positions—such as strengthening Social Security and Medicare, stronger educational funding and higher minimum wages—have for decades polled by solid majorities or, at worst, ample pluralities in the electorate at large.

By contrast, the Democratic Party in the Clinton and Obama administrations has consistently embraced and implemented policies that strip workers of economic and legal rights to benefit investors and the elite professionals that serve them. Over time, the “neoliberal” economic order—which sees only good, never bad, in the relentless untrammeling of capital and the deregulation of markets—has created an unacceptable level of economic insecurity and distress for those outside the 1 percent and the elite professionals who serve them...

...Yet the Clinton campaign is in such denial about this that it has become vitriolic in its verbal and tactical attacks on Sanders and his supporters—rather than recognizing that the stunning success of his campaign is proof of their abject policy failures. The message is clear: The Clintons believe, as Bill himself put it, that the true progressives have nowhere to go..."

Sadly, the same point of view applies here in Europe too.

[jk]

Re: Trump to win?

Can you clarify jk? It seems to me there are currently not 2 positions but 3, two of which I agree with and one with which I don't. Vote Clinton 1st and Sanders 2nd. Vote Sanders 1st and Clinton 2nd. Vote Sanders 1st and Trump 2nd. I don't think I've read any posters here who espouse Trump 1st and if they do, there's no requirement for a 2nd choice and I'm fairly sure no one would choose Clinton 1st and Trump 2nd.
And, since I wasn't completely clear in my post to Woodsman, let me say that if Bernie were clearly ahead, I would back him now and if he pulls off a come-from-behind miracle at the convention, I'll back him. There is no circumstance under which I would support Trump.

i'm not even considering sanders because i think the fix is in on the democratic nomination. what i'm saying is that i can see both the pros and the cons on both clinton and trump. trump maybe, just maybe, can disrupt the current political-economic linkages, and maybe, just maybe, can get a stimulatory fiscal policy through congress. otoh, i think he could overreach, especially internationally, if he has an overinflated sense of his bargaining position. clinton is just more of the same, and although the status quo isn't close to wonderful, we are getting by. so clinton represents safety, perhaps some incrementalism, but i'm skeptical that she'd be any more successful in dealing with congress than obama has been. and then there's the supreme court.....

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

i'm not even considering sanders because i think the fix is in on the democratic nomination...

Where there is no vision, the people perish...

[jk]

Re: Trump to win?

Where there is no vision, the people perish...

i wish i shared your optimism and hope. my family likes to laugh at a picture of me, on vacation, lying on a beach on vancouver island, my head propped up by a convenient log, and my face hidden behind a book - charles kindleberger's "The World in Depression, 1929-1939."

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

i wish i shared your optimism and hope. my family likes to laugh at a picture of me, on vacation, lying on a beach on vancouver island, my head propped up by a convenient log, and my face hidden behind a book - charles kindleberger's "The World in Depression, 1929-1939."

You do. That's what the internal conflict you've been experiencing is all about.

Hope has always been with you. It never left, not once. And once you recognize it again, you'l find optimism just where you left it.

[shiny!]

Re: Trump to win?

i wish i shared your optimism and hope. my family likes to laugh at a picture of me, on vacation, lying on a beach on vancouver island, my head propped up by a convenient log, and my face hidden behind a book - charles kindleberger's "The World in Depression, 1929-1939."

I can relate. Your family are not the only ones to laugh!

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

We all know the travesty of Trump University, Hillary and Bill have their own For Profit Education scandal:

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/02/tr...ate-education/

[GRG55]

Re: Trump to win?

Clinton’s Speech Shows That Only Sanders Is Fit for the Presidency

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/-clintons-speech-shows-th_b_10306592.html

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

This is a partisan rant penned by a socialist Bernie supporter (who anticipates his loss). It is filled with salty, Anglo-Saxon words of four letters describing quite impossible acts of physicality offered as suggestions or in reaction to the players in actualities of the day. I believe it's the best overview of the events that will lead to HRC's indictment and hope you will take time to read and comment.

Welcome to the bowels of hell my friends, for that is surely where those of us who have no desire to see Donald Trump become President of the most powerful nation on earth stand at this very moment.

You may, for the time being assume that I’m being hyperbolic if you like; but that isn’t going to do either one of us any ****ing good when Trump absolutely destroys the least trusted American politician since Richard Nixon at the polls in November. We are close now, closer indeed than I literally ever thought even possible in this election cycle to seeing a narcissistic, emotionally unstable and openly mendacious, quasi-fascist billionaire winning the highest office in the land – by ****ing default...

The Foggy Bottom of Clinton’s Muddy Waters

[santafe2]

Re: Trump to win?

Welcome to the bowels of hell my friends, for that is surely where those of us who have no desire to see Donald Trump become President of the most powerful nation on earth stand at this very moment.

You may, for the time being assume that I’m being hyperbolic if you like; but that isn’t going to do either one of us any ****ing good when Trump absolutely destroys the least trusted American politician since Richard Nixon at the polls in November. We are close now, closer indeed than I literally ever thought even possible in this election cycle to seeing a narcissistic, emotionally unstable and openly mendacious, quasi-fascist billionaire winning the highest office in the land – by ****ing default...

Supporting Bernie is truly a religious experience. It should come complete with a martyr's cross and a crown of thorns - which, given his religion, is just dumbfounding. He goes on to rail against Nixon to what point? Nixon, not his opponent, was elected twice.

White folk are just going crazy on both sides of the aisle.