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  • Re: Trump to win?

    The vitriol vs. Sanders is getting absurd.

    If this doesn't show the American people along with what has been attempted by the Republican brass against Trump that there is in fact an establishment controlling everything than I don't know what will.

    http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sande...ut-race-461195

    Violence. Death threats. Vile, misogynistic names screamed at women. Rage. Hatred. Menacing, anonymous phone calls to homes and offices. Public officials whisked offstage by security agents frightened of the growing mob. None of this has any place in a political campaign. And the candidate who has been tolerating this obscene behavior among his supporters is showing himself to be unfit for office.
    So, Senator Sanders, either get control of what is becoming your increasingly unhinged cult or get out of the race. Whatever respect sane liberals had for you is rapidly dwindling, and the damage being inflicted on your reputation may be unfixable. If you can’t even manage the vicious thugs who act in your name, you can’t be trusted to run a convenience store, much less the country.
    When Bernie Sanders launched his presidential campaign, he seemed to be the kind of candidate who would inspire voters from the liberal blocs of the Democratic Party, push the party leftward and influence the future direction of politics—either as the nominee or as a force for change. But Sanders has increasingly signaled that he is in this race for Sanders, and day after day shows himself to be a whining crybaby with little interest in a broader movement. His vicious—and often ridiculous—attacks on the party whenever he doesn’t win a contest have inspired a level of ignorant fanaticism among a large swath of his supporters that is becoming more akin to what might be seen at an out-of-control rally for Donald Trump. Signs are emerging that the Sanders campaign is transmogrifying into the type of movement through which tyrants are born.
    Try Newsweek for only $1.25 per week
    The ugly was on display at the recent state convention of the Nevada Democratic Party, where Hillary Clinton won more delegates than Sanders. Now, this should hardly have been a surprise to anyone except the Sandernistas, whose certainty in their righteousness has overwhelmed any commitment they may have ever had to democracy. Sanders lost the Nevada caucuses in February by more than 5 percent. A rational person who cared about the will of the people would presume that Clinton would emerge from the state with the most delegates. But Sanders supporters were outraged—outraged!—that the person with the largest number of votes ended up with the largest share of delegates.
    From the moment Sanders lost the state, the campaign and its supporters have been playing a badly planned long game, hoping to overrule the voters. Sanders and his managers have already proclaimed plans they hope will gain him the democratic nomination by manipulating the rules in Philadelphia at the national convention in a way that will reverse the electoral outcome. These same rules are the ones he decried until the moment he figured out they might play to his advantage, and his supporters launched a dress rehearsal in Nevada.
    After the caucus votes came in—with Sanders losing—his campaign launched its effort to reverse the outcome. At county meetings where delegates for the state convention were selected, Sanders supporters orchestrated an effort to gain more slots than Clinton and succeeded. Then, when it came time for the state convention, Clinton out-organized Sanders. Some 98 percent of Clinton delegates chosen at the county level showed up—all but 27. Meanwhile, only 78 percent of Sanders delegates came—leaving 462 possible slots for his supporters unfilled.
    Sanders supporters also lost it over a story that 64 of his potential delegates were kept from being seated (never mind that even seating them all would still leave Sanders short 398 delegates). Six of them were seated after missing information was obtained. The rest either didn’t bother to register as Democrats (they could have done so as late as two weeks before the convention) or their basic information—such as name and address—could not be found. When the party reached out to those delegates to obtain those details, only eight bothered to reply. (This continues the theme of some Bernie zealots—rules don’t apply to them; screaming conspiracy and posting diatribes against Clinton online is much more satisfying than bothering to get the job done.) During their riot, Sanders supporters heard a rumor that there was a “minority report” written by members of the Credentials Committee that called for those ineligible delegates to be seated. There wasn’t; it was written on site by Sanders’s national campaign staff. The Credentials Committee—which was co-chaired by members of each campaign and was composed of equal numbers of supporters of Clinton and Sanders—discredited the existence of the supposed “minority report.” No matter; this bogus report has since entered the delusional lore of Sanders-world and was used to justify the freak out of his Nevada contingent.
    The unseemly tirade of Sanders supporters was a marvel, the kind of behavior more likely to be seen among British soccer hooligans than people claiming to be interested in politics. A chair was thrown. People screamed “bitch!” at Senator Barbara Boxer, a staunch liberal from California. Even the Nevada state Democratic chairwoman, Roberta Lange, who had endorsed Sanders, needed a security detail just to go to the bathroom in order to protect her from the hypocritical “humanity lovers” who seem to hate everyone but themselves and their idol.
    Afterward, the goons kept up their hostile hysterics. Protesters vandalized the offices of the state Democratic Party. Lange’s personal contact information, including her cellphone number, were posted online, and she has since received thousands of death threats, according to state party officials. One of the text messages to Lange said, “Praying to god someone shoots you in the FACE and blows your democracy-stealing head off!” (Only in the delusions of Sanders-land could democracy be stolen when the winner of the popular vote was winning.) Voicemail obtained by Jon Ralston, the dean of Nevada political reporters, contain such delightful statements as, “People like you should be hung in a public execution.... You are a sick, twisted piece of sh*t, and I hope you burn for this!” And, “You f**king stupid bitch! What the hell are you doing? You’re a f**king corrupt bitch!” And, “You’re a c*nt. F**k you!” And, “You probably just guaranteed fire is in Philadelphia.”
    Yeah, these are exactly the kind of people who Americans want to have as the next president’s base—vicious, sociopathic misogynists. And their threats of violence at the convention is just another sign that Sanders could go down as one of the most destructive forces in American history. Riots and flames at the convention—a repeat of the chaos of the 1968 Democratic Convention—would help open the White House doors for Donald Trump when compared with a nose-holding coronation by Republicans at their gathering in Cleveland.
    Meanwhile, Sanders reacts with mealy-mouthed mumbles, saying he doesn’t support violence while doing literally nothing about it and claiming that—contrary to the statements of witnesses, reporters and video recordings—his violent supporters aren’t violent. Trump would be proud of the disingenuous delusions vomited up by the candidate.
    Sanders supporters have shown their penchant for abusing those who disagree in other locations. At a Clinton rally in California, they tried to shout Clinton down, disrupting the event to such an extent that the former secretary of state cut her speech short. According to witnesses, they went after at least one child, snatching her pro-Clinton sign, which had been autographed by the candidate, and tearing it up. That girl was left in tears; videos of adults comforting other crying children who were terrified by the Sanders supporters are now online.
    Sanders himself has been willing to stoke the flames. He has said that if Clinton wins the nomination and wants his supporters, she has to court them herself by focusing on his issues while abandoning the “establishment.” After all, the loser always gets to dictate the agenda of the winner. (Usually, the candidate who doesn’t win the nomination vigorously endorses the party’s winner, but this is yet another example of Sanders being in it for himself.)
    The scenario is bizarre, to say the least. Sanders has never been part of the Democratic Party, instead choosing to remain an independent. But when the time came for a presidential run, the party poo-bahs agreed to allow him to run as a Democrat; eventually, he turned on the party, slashing at his erstwhile political home. It was as if you invited someone into your home who proceeded to leave a huge, steaming pile in your living room.
    Now, as the old saying goes, politics ain’t beanbag, and it seemed for a while that Sanders’s plan was essentially to launch a revolution inside the Democratic Party. That’s certainly not a controversial goal for someone to shoot for in any political party—conservatives have been transforming the GOP for more than 35 years, pushing it increasingly to the right. But it has become increasingly obvious that this “revolution” is a façade designed to hide what is little more than an arrogant thirst for individual power.
    Why is there no organized effort by his supporters, led by Sanders, to start changing the direction of the Democrats by snagging local and state-level positions in the party? Why are Sanders and his revolutionaries doing so little to find like-minded people who could run for office down-ballot—without such people sitting in Congress, the Vermont senator’s proposals could never be transformed into policy. Why is Sanders continuing to bilk his delusional supporters of money, despite the impossibility of his winning the nomination, rather than directing it to candidates who support his ideals? Why do so many of his supporters scream “fraud!” when he loses a state and demand changes to the rules that they proclaim would have led him to victory? (Hey, folks: The way you change rules is by gaining positions in the party, not by screaming and name-calling.)
    Then there are some of the policies being espoused by Sanders and his team, which seem less like a call for fundamental change than for appeasing young people who rarely get their hands dirty or seem to care about the less fortunate. America’s schools are crumbling. Art classes, music and athletics are disappearing (prominent conservatives don’t need to worry about that, since they live in the wealthy areas with top public schools or send their kids off to private ones). Teacher turnover is too high, robbing students of the most talented classroom leaders. Even obtaining school supplies and textbooks is increasingly out of reach for some cash-strapped districts. And year after year, America sees the consequences, as it falls behind other countries in science and math, the foundations of expanding, global economies.
    Sanders is calling for raising taxes on the wealthy and on corporations. And, as a centerpiece of his campaign, he wants to use that money for education—by giving students free college educations at state universities.
    College? Seriously? How many kids stuck in the cycle of poverty because they cannot obtain a good pre-college education will be able to take advantage of Sanders’s undergraduate giveaway? How could students supposedly concerned with social justice walk happily past the local run-down high school as money is diverted so that they don’t have to take out college loans? How many of them would have been able to gain an undergraduate education, either through scholarships or by attending a community college? About 70 percent of Americans don’t have a college degree—what does this plan do for them?
    If the idea is to improve education, no one who truly cared about the poor would direct money that could have gone to elementary and high schools to colleges instead. This is about doling out benefits so that the comfortable can be more comfortable, not about improving the plight of the impoverished. Which of course raises the uncomfortable question: Despite all the raging of Sanders’s college-aid supporters about their desire to help others, is their anger really just about self-centered desire to help themselves?
    Which brings us back to the original point: Senator Sanders, grow up or get out. Your supporters are now, in true petulant child fashion, proclaiming that they will vote for Trump rather than Clinton because blah blah blah, Wall Street, blah blah blah, corporate contributors, blah blah blah, establishment, blah blah blah. Probably none of them have much of a memory of the Vietnam War and the 1972 campaign. Then, the liberal wing of the Democratic Party won with the nomination of George McGovern and a large segment of the usual party supporters proclaimed they would vote for Richard Nixon instead. And look how well that turned out.

    Comment


    • Re: Trump to win?

      Originally posted by loweyecue View Post
      Do yo really think it's fair to accuse Sanders of taking up the mantle of victimhood? Didn't he just do everything possible to beat the establishment without debasing himself? And was he able to beat out the combination of wealth (superpacs), greed and corruption (establishment democrats) and pro-establishment media(CNN)?
      My comments were aimed at the American electorate, about half of whom cannot be bothered to vote in the presidential, (60%) and mid-term, (40%), elections. I'm actually quite sympathetic to Sander's ideas and his call for a more pure form of democracy. I also understand your cynicism and I share some of it as it's obvious that most Americans really don't understand that democracy requires attention and sometimes real struggle. Without that, as you describe above, it will be taken away.

      Comment


      • Re: Trump to win?

        Originally posted by ProdigyofZen View Post
        The vitriol vs. Sanders is getting absurd.

        If this doesn't show the American people along with what has been attempted by the Republican brass against Trump that there is in fact an establishment controlling everything than I don't know what will.

        http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sande...ut-race-461195

        Violence. Death threats. Vile, misogynistic names screamed at women. Rage. Hatred. Menacing, anonymous phone calls to homes and offices. Public officials whisked offstage by security agents frightened of the growing mob. None of this has any place in a political campaign. And the candidate who has been tolerating this obscene behavior among his supporters is showing himself to be unfit for office.
        So, Senator Sanders, either get control of what is becoming your increasingly unhinged cult or get out of the race. Whatever respect sane liberals had for you is rapidly dwindling, and the damage being inflicted on your reputation may be unfixable. If you can’t even manage the vicious thugs who act in your name, you can’t be trusted to run a convenience store, much less the country.
        When Bernie Sanders launched his presidential campaign, he seemed to be the kind of candidate who would inspire voters from the liberal blocs of the Democratic Party, push the party leftward and influence the future direction of politics—either as the nominee or as a force for change. But Sanders has increasingly signaled that he is in this race for Sanders, and day after day shows himself to be a whining crybaby with little interest in a broader movement. His vicious—and often ridiculous—attacks on the party whenever he doesn’t win a contest have inspired a level of ignorant fanaticism among a large swath of his supporters that is becoming more akin to what might be seen at an out-of-control rally for Donald Trump. Signs are emerging that the Sanders campaign is transmogrifying into the type of movement through which tyrants are born.
        .
        OMG - WTF doesn't even begin to describe. But I guess people on the right were just dying to use "misogynist" in a "meaningful" way. -- it happens..
        It's the Debt, stupid!!

        Comment


        • Re: Trump to win?

          There are radical nutcases on both sides.

          Get the money out of politics and you begin to get the possibility of civil discourse.

          Even better form a strong independent party with sensible ideas and replace the two extremists political cults we call parties.

          Comment


          • Re: Trump to win?

            Totally agree on nutcases on both sides.

            On the larger topic of multi party democracy and/or democracy without parties - I am not convinced the former is any better, I am yet to experience he latter
            It's the Debt, stupid!!

            Comment


            • Re: Trump to win?

              Salon- "Trump is going to win":

              http://www.salon.com/2016/05/23/dona...mp_represents/


              Personally I think polls and predictions may be meaningless at this time.
              Last edited by vt; May 23, 2016, 10:55 PM.

              Comment


              • Re: Trump to win?

                Another rare article that nails it, while all other analysts, journalists, and eggheaded intellectuals remain in the dark:

                Donald Trump is going to win: This is why Hillary Clinton can’t defeat what Trump represents

                I recall late last year, the Democratic party's smugness at the so called implosion of the Republican Party, when all the while, the simmerings of a similar implosion were overlooked within their own party. The irony? It will be the Democratic Party that will be in chaos this summer - not the Republican Party. Why? It was easy for someone to hijack the Republican Party from its elites - that disconnect between classes within the party was so obvious. It was a clean "break." The Democratic Party on the other hand, always "hid" behind social progressivism, an admirable all inclusive goal yet also an awesome veil that distracted the masses from acknowledging the real owners of the Democratic Party and their primary goals.

                It's fun to watch the cognitive dissonance - hating Palin is accepted, hating Hillary is misogny. I'm no fan of either, though Palin is more of a "real" human than Hillary could ever be.

                Bernie could have done so much better if he had a better grasp of marketing and the psychology of the masses. He started "getting it" too late in the game. I like him, he's got that William Jennings Bryan aura, or at least, how I imagine WJB working a crowd.

                Just as in the run-up to the the American Financial Crisis of 2007-2008, the elites remain in the dark as to what is really going on in the country they control.

                I find the level of cluelessness amongst the elites absolutely amazing. I'm honestly dumbfounded.

                Comment


                • Re: Trump to win?

                  Originally posted by gnk View Post
                  I recall late last year, the Democratic party's smugness at the so called implosion of the Republican Party, when all the while, the simmerings of a similar implosion were overlooked within their own party.
                  If you haven't read the Taibbi article Woodsman cited earlier on this page, it's worth reading. At the end of his article he says the same thing. Watch out Dems, you might not have been shilling for quite as long but you're next.

                  Originally posted by gnk View Post
                  I find the level of cluelessness amongst the elites absolutely amazing. I'm honestly dumbfounded.
                  Greenspan was found to be an imbecile nearly a decade ago. Sanders called him out 13 years ago.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Trump to win?

                    Originally posted by gnk View Post
                    ....the level of cluelessness amongst the elites absolutely amazing. I'm honestly dumbfounded.
                    it can be summed up in a single word: H U B R I S

                    since 'the law' (or constitution?) doesnt apply to the political+crony class, esp since 2009...

                    and hitlery, queen nancy, former prince harry (reid) are THE Poster 'children' for this term, while their spokesclown is the current occupant - who's appointement of holder to run the dept of 'juicetess' signaled the 'all-clear' to ride off into the sunset with PRINTED TRILLIONS OF BAILOUTS -

                    and ALL OF IT ENABLED by their protectors within the op/ed depts of the lamerstream media - all of whom are bought & paid for by their masters in lwr manhattan - who began in the previous clinton reign of terror, succeeded beyond their wildest dreams with repeal of glass-steagall - which gave them the absolute go-ahead to proceed with a leveraged and hostile takeover of the entire us.gov - which functions now as WHOLLY-OWNED SUBSIDIARY OF THE BANKSTER CRIMINAL CARTEL -

                    with hitlery as their designated whore-in-chief

                    any other conclusions are simply denial of the obvious.
                    Last edited by lektrode; May 24, 2016, 12:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Trump to win?

                      Originally posted by santafe2 View Post
                      My comments were aimed at the American electorate, about half of whom cannot be bothered to vote in the presidential, (60%) and mid-term, (40%), elections. I'm actually quite sympathetic to Sander's ideas and his call for a more pure form of democracy. I also understand your cynicism and I share some of it as it's obvious that most Americans really don't understand that democracy requires attention and sometimes real struggle. Without that, as you describe above, it will be taken away.
                      Found this on FB today. Our democracy is in safe hands..

                      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KOruQmB1Kbw
                      It's the Debt, stupid!!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Trump to win?

                        Originally posted by loweyecue View Post
                        Found this on FB today. Our democracy is in safe hands..
                        Civics is no longer a required subject. If you pay people a living wage and teach them to appreciate and work for democracy, they're nothing but trouble. It's fascinating that these people are obviously in college and most likely going into debt to achieve what? We may not like it but we definitely get the government we deserve.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Trump to win?

                          Yes our Democracy is safe:

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II-gubJpYvA

                          Comment


                          • Re: Trump to win?

                            Originally posted by vt View Post
                            it is extremely disingenuous to create a false scenario set out as truth in such interviews.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Trump to win?

                              Originally posted by Chris Coles View Post
                              it is extremely disingenuous to create a false scenario set out as truth in such interviews.
                              One video asks simple questions to college students and has no political bias.

                              The other is a premeditated attempt to dupe people using a false pretext and is obviously politically motivated. If this person was out to prove honest people are gullible and easy to manipulate he succeeded.
                              It's the Debt, stupid!!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Trump to win?

                                Originally posted by loweyecue View Post
                                One video asks simple questions to college students and has no political bias.

                                The other is a premeditated attempt to dupe people using a false pretext and is obviously politically motivated. If this person was out to prove honest people are gullible and easy to manipulate he succeeded.
                                You are correct. My point was they were pretending to be journalists. In which case, they were breaking every rule that applies to professional journalism and as such, events like that undermine that profession and if there is one thing we must rely on at this moment in time is the professionalism of our journalists. If the general public start to believe that journalists are unreliable; we all lose. Our whole civilisation is based upon our receiving a true picture of events from journalists; if we lose that trust, then our civil society may collapse. Yes, we already know that there are news sources out there that have already sold their soul to the devil, but we know who they are and can take avoiding action. However, playing with fire, as they were, is taking our civilisation into totally uncharted territory and someone needs to sit them down and explain to them the seriousness of their actions.

                                If you fly aircraft, you also learn to recognise when others may be acting, let us say inappropriately, and you take them to one side and explain what they did wrong and how to avoid the problem in the future. We should use the same technique when faced with false journalism.

                                Comment

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