Trump to win?

[santafe2]

Re: Trump to win?

That would be unfortunate, but not surprising in a political shift the magnitude of the one in process.

Does anyone else believe that the blame for any such result lies at the feet of the protesters' puppet-masters? MoveOn.org has admitted to printing signs and recruiting many of these protesters.

I'm not in favor of Trump's handling of the disrupt-ers, but there would be no Trump response necessary if there were no disrupt-ers. A case could be made that this is a form of entrapment...an activity that the left normally rails against; with good reason.

This sounds a bit too much like the establishment argument in the South in the early '60s. In case anyone missed that sweet little slice of history it went something like this:

I'm not in favor of beating colored folks for marching but something has got to be done. Agitators has got them all riled up. Decent folk just want to sit at their favorite lunch counter without no trouble. The police are just doing their job. Oh lord I do feel bad about that colored boy and those 2 agitators they killed but you knew it was coming. They brought it on themselves. Sweet Jesus, they brought it on themselves.

Whenever I hear a Trump apologist, this is what I hear. White southern crackers making excuses for their end-justifies-the-means activity. Trump is not the beginning of the new modern racism, Reagan was the beginning and with any luck Trump will be the end.

[gnk]

Re: Trump to win?

It would not do his ego well to have all his applause lines greeted with boos and heckles, so he took his ball and went home. Typical cowardly response. He's happy to bully and rough-up protestors (and encourage his followers to pile on) when they are a tiny minority. But when they show up in numbers, he cowers. That's The Donald. Always has been. Folks up in the Northeast know his shtick, but the rest of the country has yet to catch on.

I have come to the conclusion that the more one hates Trump, the more likely they are to underestimate him. It's like they are wearing blinders.

I think you completely missed the point Trump was making. I believe he knew what could happen by holding the event where it was held. He saw two outcomes, both favorable. It's been a strategy he's used all along - to keep two winning options open.

1) Event goes as planned, all's well.

2) Event gets ugly and he cancels - it perfectly proves his point that America is out of control, and law and order is sorely lacking. What kind of country do we have when people can't assemble? He energized his supporters - they will definitely get off the couch and vote now - and he will even win more supporters. Hell, Trump even uses the phrase silent majority! How obvious can it be?

And the media COMPLETELY missed it. They blamed Trump and his supporters! How clueless can they be?!!! Don't they realize that only pisses off more Americans? That's why so many have grossly underestimated Trump to date. In Trump, the Media sees Wallace, who lost, and not Nixon, who craftily won in 1968 - both ran on law and order.

I also believe there is an overblown hysterical fear of Trump. Ben Carson was right, there are two Trumps. Everyone glues their eyes on the obvious one: the one that's running for office using the Republican Party as a vehicle. The other Trump, one could argue, is actually a real Democrat! And unlike Clinton, he could actually deliver since he's not a PAC puppet.

I think Trump wins big tomorrow.

Personally, I wouldn't mind either Sanders or Trump as President. Not that either Presidency would be perfect - far from it. But that's how revolutions begin.

In the past 20+ years, the US has endured artificially engineered credit bubbles that helped concentrate wealth, Middle East failures that cost trillions and thousands of lives, a Banking system that nearly collapsed the world economy and cost trillions - which yet again, concentrated wealth, and global treaties that although benefit the investor and professional classes, have destroyed the middle class and have caused major global monetary imbalances that pose a major threat to the global monetary system (a ticking monetary time bomb, if you ask me.)

And we're worried about Trump? Really? The time for worrying is long gone. Now its time to buckle down. We are far from finished from paying for the sins of the past. The bill hasn't even come due yet. Rotten, corrupt political systems don't quietly fade away. If it is not this election cycle, it will be the next, and by then I think things will be far worse.

I voted for Obama, honestly thinking that he would "stick it to the man" so to speak. I have been disappointed - I think he tried his best, unlike the prior two presidents, but ultimately he couldn't escape the corrupt system that actually put him in office.

By the way, I recall EJ alluding to the "Fortress America" idea a while back. But I don't think anyone here could have predicted a Trump presidency and the radical political shift it represents. If things play out as I think they will, how will that affect the investment theory we, on this forum, believe in? Is gold undervalued and is it time to back up the truck, so to speak, and buy more?

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

I appreciate the disagreement but I'm not entirely clear how I'm being hypocritical. Trump and his supporters aren't exactly "nuanced" in their criticism. I suppose I feel the same way about Trump supporters as Trump does about Mexicans. "And some, I assume, are good people."

Protest by its very nature is disruptive. Can't see that it would be much of a protest if it weren't, so I don't take that as a valid criticism. The point of protest is disruption, opposition, challenge and dissent. That's why it's done.

And you bet I am encouraging disruptive protest as a means for railing against Trump's bullying. Legal and non-violent, but otherwise as disruptive as humanly possible. I suggest laughter. Every time Trump appears on the dais, the venue should be filled with raucous laughter and guffaws. And pointing, with some stomach grabbing too. Some old school Alinksy-ite farting protests would be good too. Hundreds of Trump protesters simultaneously ripping huge ones, left and right, punctuating every line with brrrrrrts and brrrooaappps and frrroaps, while the pungent odor fills the room and people chant "Trump Stinks, Trump Stinks." Really, it's an opportunity to get creative and have some fun too. Because if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right.

I'm glad you found your candidate and I'm very sure he will be elected. But I think you might be kidding yourself if you expect him to be some sort of transformational character. I fail to see how a billionaire corporatist who admits to gaming the system every bit as much as his opponents will be the agent for change. “I was a businessman. I give to everybody. When they call, I give. And you know what? When I need something from them, two years later, three years later, I call them, and they are there for me.” And his strip mining of communities like Atlantic City are well known, as is his penchant for strategic bankruptcy and leaving us to pay his bills.

Anyway, it's a free oligarchy; so vote for who you want.

[bpr]

Re: Trump to win?

And the same type of salute for Clinton:

View image on Twitter

You realize that's a caucus, right, and not a rally? So they're not pledging or saluting anything but actually voting?

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

You've no doubt heard the theory that dreams are our monkey brain's attempt to assign meaning to what would otherwise be meaningless stimuli, random messages created from the arousal of the posterior segment of the brain. I think that's analogous to the various explanations one reads about Trump's strategy.

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

This sounds a bit too much like the establishment argument in the South in the early '60s...

Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear...

Given that Trump never tires of telling us that there was a golden era when protesters in America knew their place — or were too terrified to speak up — the question of when, exactly, these good old days began and ended has become the subject of speculation.

Readers are invited to share their own guesses, but since it is common for conservatives to harken back to simpler days when they were children — and Trump has been complaining that America has gone soft since at least 1987 — the smart money is on sometime early in his youth.
Could Trump, who was born in 1946, be thinking of his teenage years, when the police were notoriously quick to resort to violence against peaceful black men, women, and children marching for civil rights?

Trump Concerned His Rallies Are Not Violent Enough

[gnk]

Re: Trump to win?

Well, I guess one can view Trump as an outsider racist bumbling Chauncy Gardiner with neurotic tendencies, or the scheming billionaire with insider establishment knowledge and a corresponding skill set most could only wish to possess.

I had done plenty of marketing in my life to know when someone is really good at selling the sizzle. It's only after the sale when you find out about the true product. What Trump does with his success afterwards, should he win, is the real debate - not what he's doing now. What he's doing now is obvious (to me), and pure genius.

Or maybe sometimes there's a man... sometimes there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place, he fits right in there...

lol...

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Trump to win?

“On Friday, we went to Chicago,” the billionaire presidential candidate told his supporters. They booed the mention of the Trump event that was canceled because of protests. “We had some, I would say they were — let’s be nice — ”
“A--holes!” a man near the front bellowed. The crowd laughed.
“Let’s call them protesters,” Trump suggested. The crowd booed.
Speaking at a campaign rally in Hickory, N.C., March 14, Donald Trump criticized recent accusations that his rallies have taken on a violent tone.

Trump mentioned one of his opponents, Florida’s Marco Rubio. This produced a chorus of boos and insults: “He sucks!” “Deport him!” “Send him back!”

He mentioned another opponent, Ted Cruz. The crowd answered with a chant of “Lyin’ Ted!” and cries of “Liar!” and “He’s full of s---!”

Trump mentioned Hillary Clinton. Audience members shouted: “F--- Hillary!” “Put her in jail!” “Waterboard Hillary!”

He bemoaned the trade imbalance with China. One man rolled up his “Silent Majority Stands With Trump” sign and bellowed through it: “F--- China!” The crowd chanted: “Build the wall! Build the wall!”

To get a better sense of the Trump crowds, I watched Sunday night’s rally here not from the penned-in press section but up front, in the crush of the crowd. I entered with the public and stood silently for four hours, near the woman whose cap said “Infidel” in English and Arabic, running my digital recorder.

A couple of dozen people protested before and after the event, and a few people were removed during Trump’s speech because of shoving.

But it was relatively tame for a Trump rally, in part because Trump supporters fingered suspected infiltrators in the crowd and had them removed by private security guards before Trump spoke. In one of several such incidents I witnessed, Trump supporters signaled for security after a young man in a baseball cap who identified himself as “John” got into a political argument with some Trump fans. “Get him out!” one shouted.

“I didn’t say anything!” John pleaded as guards, taking the word of his accusers, led him away.
An announcement before events advises participants not to harm those who “have taken advantage of Mr. Trump’s hospitality.” But Trump has sent a different message, declaring Sunday that he might pay the legal fees of a man who sucker-punched a demonstrator and said his victim might need to be killed next time.

The crowd Sunday evening apparently purged suspected “disrupters” too thoroughly. “Do we have a protester anywhere?” Trump asked. Trump and his advisers seem to delight in the confrontations, which fuel the crowd’s energy. Before Trump arrived, Trump aide Stephen Miller had just begun speaking when a woman near the front fainted. “Medic! Medic!” people shouted, waving signs and pointing. Miller, suspecting a protest, righteously condemned the “kind of person” who would “sow chaos and disorder.”

Those around me were almost all white and mostly men. Their T-shirts and caps said they were gun owners, veterans, Marines and Harley riders. I heard nothing racist or angry or paranoid in their conversations. But once Trump arrived, they became ominously transfixed and aggressive. They pumped their fists, flashed thumbs up, mouthed “Thank you,” chanted “Trump! Trump! Trump!” and hung on the candidate’s every word — often with looks of ecstasy and some visibly trembling.

Trump captivated them with words that were alternately desperate and violent: “Our country is going to hell. . . . We’re sitting on a very big, fat, ugly, bubble. . . . We’re like the lap dog for the world. . . . Drugs are pouring across. . . . They’re chopping off heads. . . . You see so many people being killed. . . . The jobs are being sucked out. . . . We’re losing with everybody.”

Before Trump spoke, a woman warmed up the crowd by reading tearfully from the autopsy report of her son, killed by an illegal immigrant (“slipknot around his neck”). “The media is in an uproar about the tone of Mr. Trump’s campaign,” she said, but not that “we’re burying our children every day at the hands of illegal aliens.” She accused Rubio of spending “blood money” and asked the senator which of his children he “would give up for a foreigner to have a nicer life.”

But happily for Trump’s supporters, deliverance was at hand. The orchestral theme from the movie “Air Force One” played, and a helicopter flew low above the Trump fans, who raised signs and fists heavenward.
Trump stepped out moments later to offer salvation. Twice he said that in a Trump presidency they could “relax” while he defeated the Islamic State and beat the world in trade. “We’re gonna become rich again,” he promised.

“We’re gonna become great again.”

From the passionate cheers sounding around me, I knew they believed him.

[BK]

Re: Trump to win?

All politicians have flaws...

Today we live with Mr Hope and Change...

Now, we can chose between Bernie "I've never had a real job in the dreaded private sector" or Hillary "My husband prefers sexual favors from 20 year old college interns...but I stay with him because he is good for my fake political career"
Or the Donald "I know how to generate attention" Trump

Politics is a perfectly imperfect system. The perfection of the screwed up American system is the way power gets passed from one screw-ball President to the next w/o a revolution and w/o the Army taking over.

So why not celebrate that the rotten and broken system has worked and stop claiming that one candidate is a bigger danger than the other.

People who spend their life voting for Democrats will always see the Republican leader as the devil, and the independent that always votes for a Republican will always see the leading Democrat as the devil. Thank god we have these two opposing group even if their respective arguments are laughable.

This is how a Republic with Democratically elected representatives works or doesn't work.....and for the time being it still kind of works.

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

I knew the Dude. The Dude was a friend of mine. Mr. Trump, you're no Dude (or Duder, or maybe El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing).

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Trump to win?



Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I had to share it.
.
.
.

[santafe2]

Re: Trump to win?

I knew the Dude. The Dude was a friend of mine. Mr. Trump, you're no Dude (or Duder, or maybe El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing).

The Dude abides. One can hope that less than 50% of the voting population can abide The Donald.

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

They are holding their hands above their heads just like Trump's people. Calling Trump supporters saluting Hitler is a total lie. I would object strongly to someone making a vile comment about Hillary, Sanders, or any other candidate.

I think both Trump and Clinton are deeply flawed, and think neither would be good for the nation. But it's sad that so much negative crap and lies gets thrown onto political campaigns. That's why we need to take all special interest money of politics. We also need candidates that don't turn us into warring camps.

[BK]

Re: Trump to win?

VT,

I respect your goal of politicians who won't turn us into warring camps, but that has been the nature of politics since man's earliest days.

You are expecting people to be rational and non-emotional. Look at the euphoria in financial investments today like Tesla Motors or Salesforce or Housing in San Francisco. People love to be emotional and they love polarized politics. Why would the people or their representatives force the special interest money out of politics. Ultimately, there are voters who want their side to have the extra fire power of special interest (Wall Street or Pharma or Education or...).

I think you goal is a fantastic dream scenario, but we live in the real world.

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

BK you are definitely correct about emotion and us against them warring camps. We even see warring camps on this board!

However 60% and growing of the population now hates both parties as the warring camps have gone too far. Chicago was a prime example: two groups of crazies going at each other on the territory of one of them. Most people are breaking point disgusted with both.

Both parties have internal wars. The moderates now have more people than either party; they have the numbers to win at any level if they get organized. This may be the only hope to keep the country together.

It may not be 2016 but by 2020 we may well see a critical realignment of political parties.