Trump to win?

[gnk]

Re: Trump to win?

Funniest thing to me, Woody, is I could give a fat flying "F" about growth. I wouldn't care if Bernie's plans caused a 2% contraction or a 4% growth spurt. No matter how wet it gets at the top, nothing's trickling down any damned how.

All I know is if I gotta watch my brother in hospice, and watch my niece and nephews get kicked out on their asses thanks to a corrupt and criminal healthcare system, I don't give a shit what the GDP numbers next year add up to...I want blood.

The "I want blood" quote sums it up for me very nicely.

THIS is what most people don't get about the Trump phenomenon or the general anger that is brewing nationally. What we are seeing is a modern day French Revolution. What many of those second amendment folks have just realized is that Washington is not captured with weapons as the Bastille in France was ... but by supporting the meanest, toughest, anti-establishment steamroller of a man. It's modern times' version of a revolution taking place in a Western nation, whose power structure has lost all touch with the average person. The fact that the establishment doesn't get it or is surprised and use phrases like "the gall!" speaks volumes to me.

In November 2016, the people will overwhelmingly elect America's Robespeirre. And the Man is going to clean house.

Ross Perot had his charts warning Americans what would happen. It happened. The people don't want charts now. They want revenge. They want to see an Ass kicking that never occurs in relatively polite establishment forums.

At least, that's my take so far. And many of those that are incapable of empathy, or never had to face being outsourced, replaced by illegal immigrants or a moved factory or even moved abroad IT operations, or crushed by healthcare costs, etc... don't get it.

There is an unfortunate racial component as well. But it's not what analysts think - again, think as if you are in the white lower classes' shoes. When the white lower classes see their futures going down the drain, meanwhile, Washington is doing everything to help illegal immigrant non-english speaking non-whites, the racial subtext grows. Hence the WALL.

It's no coincidence that the Democratic party is somewhat going through the same thing right now. The only reason that it is not as ugly is that the Democrat "brand" of "fighting for the little people" can continue to fool the people a little longer. But only a little longer. When Trump finishes with Cruz and Rubio, and he has his sights on Hillary - watch out. That's when the Democratic party will begin to feel it. There will be desertions.

Trump is not a Republican phenomenon. That too is a media mistake. He's a national phenomenon evolving in front of our eyes.

[gnk]

Re: Trump to win?

Time to buy a live aboard sailboat and move to Greece.

Haha! I was thinking of you the other day after reading about the fresh produce crisis in Canada in a post you wrote.

Here in crisis-ridden Greece (yeah, still a disaster) we have had a mild winter. I was at the village the other day and saw about 100-200 rotting oranges under our orange trees. I guess I didn't have time to pick them all so they started dropping off the trees. All winter I have been picking oranges and giving them away to friends and family. Wild asparagus is everywhere too. Old ladies are still out in the countryside knife and bag in hand, harvesting edible weeds near hedgerows. And the recent olive season was one of the best in years. The countryside is in full bloom right now - Almond trees, daisies, thistles, wild mustard... My bees are working hard preparing for the Spring nectar flow.

At least we have nature. Luckily I'm on the Western side of Greece. The Aegean islands, and Athens still, is another story. The refugee crisis is out of control, and the bottleneck that is Greece isn't looking too good.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Trump to win?

Zuckerberg's choices...

http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/a...?src=longreads

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

Funniest thing to me, Woody, is I could give a fat flying "F" about growth. I wouldn't care if Bernie's plans caused a 2% contraction or a 4% growth spurt. No matter how wet it gets at the top, nothing's trickling down any damned how.

All I know is if I gotta watch my brother in hospice, and watch my niece and nephews get kicked out on their asses thanks to a corrupt and criminal healthcare system, I don't give a shit what the GDP numbers next year add up to...I want blood.

I didn't know about your brother. I'm sorry this is happening to your family, dc. Who could give a sh!t about growth and gaps with this staring them in the face when they wake up and waiting in bed when they come to sleep?

And if a gentleman (a gentle man) of your intelligence and forbearance might be driven to bloodlust and rage, well then we are well and truly ufcked. For how many such gentleman does it take to join with brutes whose first and only instinct is bloodlust and rage? And how long does it take a gentleman to be worn down to a brute?

The chairman and president and chief tell us "nothing's perfect" and besides our lying eyes are wrong, things aren't so bad and anyway have been worse because gas is cheap or some pasty-faced econometric wizard out of Harvard or Chicago says it's so. I wonder by what tiny unit of mass the balance scales tip toward reaction every time a man or woman in your similar situation hears such dreck.

Hope you can find some peace for a time, dc.

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

Unfortunately neither the Tea Party nor Bernie's plan makes economic sense.

TECI certainly does, but with the public-private partnerships EJ spoke of...

Vt, TECI and Bernie's plan line up so well it's scary. There are more opportunities for public-private partnerships than you imagine. And if your concern is about helping the poor, there's no other candidate out there even talking about it, much less one with an actual plan that helps poor, working and middle-class people. Hell, it depends on the success of poor and working and middle-class people to get us the growth we need to close the output gap without going to war.

Our problems, according to Janszen, are rooted in the flaws of the debt-driven FIRE economy (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate), which dwarfs, and is coming close to extinguishing, America's "Productive Economy"-the making and selling of real things. The government's tried-and-true methods of currency depreciation, tax and interest rate cuts, and fiscal stimulus won't cut it this time around. The only way out is to change our fundamental approach.

The solution? Use private and public monies to develop major, for-profit infrastructure projects in transportation, energy, and communications. These projects will spark employment and growth, reduce America's dependence on foreign energy and our foreign debt, and improve the efficiency of the economy for decades to come.

The Post-Catastrophe Economy: Rebuilding After the Great Collapse of 2008

EJ says it's either reinvest on a big enough scale to get us over 4% or it's war. And a guy who you should consider a fellow traveler knows how bad that might be.

So you're involved in a conflict that, if it starts, inevitably gravitates to the use of nuclear weapons. That's the only way the shark can influence the elephant, or the elephant the shark.

We do not want that. We do not need that, the region or the world needs a nuclear war between China and the United States. That's where all the war games lead that I've ever played in, and they're quite a lot of them.

Col. Wilkerson: All War Games Between China and US Lead to Nuclear Attacks

The Tea Party is ancient history. What wasn't monetized by Dick Armey metastasized into the Trump Army. His plan is "trust me" and so is HillBill's. The GOP's plan is to survive as a party, the economy and people be damned.

You have a chance to really show your stripes as the independent you've always tried to convince you really are. Now you can do it with little cognitive and emotional discomfort because the plan Bernie is offering is what you've demanded for the last seven+ years. You've also been keen on telling us how important it is to abandon ideological safety blankets and do what's right and what works for everyone. Well brother, here's your chance to walk the walk.

It starts with reading a few paragraphs and making a few compare and contrast exercises. Although I have every doubt you will, I challenge you to leaf through "Post-catastrophe Economy" and compare it to what the Sanders campaign is offering. Maybe put up a few of your notes and show me where I'm wrong.

It's like they read the darn book, vt.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Trump to win?

Thanks Woody. You're right. Improper comment at an improper time.

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

Woody,

I want to see something that works for the middle class and to help the poor get out of poverty.

We know elitism doesn't work. It doesn't matter if the elites are capitalist, socialist, or communist.

We do need to replace both political parties. That's a given,

The problem with socialism is I've never seen it work anywhere. What we have now isn't working either but I still feel that free, fairly regulated markets without corruption work best.

We do need to put the political crooks in jail and get rid of all money in politics.

I do respect DC and your desire to help the citizens of our nation against the unfair actions of elites on both sides of the political spectrum. We all have the right goal in mind.

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

Prayers for your bother and his family. Hopefully his medical care can be improved.

No one should be treated the way you describe.

[lektrode]

Re: Trump to win?

Thanks Woody. You're right. Improper comment at an improper time.

i disagree - it was a purrrrfect comment, dc

certainly no need to apologize for it.

and RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE IS THE ONLY THING THEY WILL PAY ANY ATTENTION TO

= why the donald is out in front
and the dems legacy of fraud (against the working/middle class) is best 'represented' by none other than hitlery herself

NO APOLOGIES and take no prisoners.

[shiny!]

Re: Trump to win?

Woody,

I want to see something that works for the middle class and to help the poor get out of poverty.

We know elitism doesn't work. It doesn't matter if the elites are capitalist, socialist, or communist.

We do need to replace both political parties. That's a given,

The problem with socialism is I've never seen it work anywhere. What we have now isn't working either but I still feel that free, fairly regulated markets without corruption work best.

We do need to put the political crooks in jail and get rid of all money in politics.

I do respect DC and your desire to help the citizens of our nation against the unfair actions of elites on both sides of the political spectrum. We all have the right goal in mind.

I'm very sorry for your troubles, dcarrigg, and find myself sharing your sentiments.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JFK said, "Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." I think we're at the stage where the poor and middle classes have had it up to the eyebrows. Historically speaking, we're at a point where people who feel disenfranchised look for a savior and a movement to right their wrongs. Expect a charismatic authoritarian leader to win and Brownshirt mentality to return.

Sanders appeals to the educated young. Hillary is pandering to angry blacks and banksters. Trump panders to angry working-class whites. If Republocrats beholden to FIRE win again, I fear violent revolution in the form of race wars and martial law will occur before the next election. If the Republocrats lose, we'll probably end up with a socialist or fascist president. Out of all these scenarios, I like Sanders the best.

Words like free-markets, capitalism, socialism and welfare oversimplify complex problems. We're never supposed to question if what we've been taught to believe and feel about a word is reflected in reality.

Sanders is actually a good guy who shot himself in the foot by calling himself a Democratic Socialist. Beginning in grade school, all Americans are indoctrinated to abhor socialism; socialism is un-American, immoral and evil in every way. Everyone "knows" that socialism never works and socialists eat puppies for breakfast. Avowed socialists- even thoughtful, intelligent ones- are political lepers, with the MSM ringing the warning bells of FUD and shouting "Unclean! Unclean!" Socialism? OMG NO!!!

But as jk's signature says, we already have socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for everyone else. Only it isn't called socialism. It's called "Saving the Economy." If we ask for the same Rx the wealthy have written for themselves we get lectures about laziness and moral hazard.

You say that socialism never works? Medicare works fairly well, so does our socialized interstate highway system. Public education worked pretty well until it got hit with a double whammy in the 70's: a Dept of Education and, thanks to inflation, the need for stay-at-home parents to go to work.

I can only shake my head at conservative friends who love their Medicare and fear Sanders. They're worried about debt, FIRE destroyed their retirement nest eggs, they're worried about their childrens' poor job prospects and grandchildrens' student loans. I mention the name Bernie Sanders and their immediate reaction is blind panic. Every single one of them is sure that under Sanders, their wealth will be confiscated and redistributed for the "Welfare State."

I try to tell them that the biggest redistribution of wealth happened over the last thirty years as GATT, NAFTA (and soon the TPP which they've never heard about), FIRE and regulatory capture by the oligarchy transferred the wealth of the middle class to the elite. But they don't listen because their brains shut down at the word "socialist."

You're right that we need a new, independent political party. But if you think it's actually going to happen right now when we need it to, then I want what you're smoking. You're also right that we need to end political corruption. The only candidate committed to giving the oligarchy the boot, dismantling FIRE and building a TECI economy right now is Bernie Sanders.

If Sanders had labelled himself an Independent throughout his career, then run as a Dem this election cycle (as Trump is running as a Repub), he'd probably be winning by a landslide. He isn't perfect but he is pretty darned good, and pretty darned honest. I respect him.

[vt]

Re: Trump to win?

Trump is a Fascist:


https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/02...-is-a-fascist/

[santafe2]

Re: Trump to win?

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...160224?page=13

Thanks. A classic Taibbi tale with characters like Prince Dinkley McBirthright, the satanic quail-hunter, the king of Jupiter and the central character who ‘would eat a child in a lifeboat’.

[Woodsman]

Re: Trump to win?

Thanks. A classic Taibbi tale with characters like Prince Dinkley McBirthright, the satanic quail-hunter, the king of Jupiter and the central character who ‘would eat a child in a lifeboat’.

Saturn devouring his son (with apologies to PPR)

[astonas]

Re: Trump to win?

Thanks Woody. You're right. Improper comment at an improper time.

My thoughts go out to you, dcarrigg, and your family. If you can think of a way this community might help, please let me know. I am certain that I am far from alone in greatly valuing your presence here. If there is a way we can repay your long history of kind and thoughtful contributions (perhaps in the form of a crowdfunding campaign?) it would be an ideal demonstration that this site is more than merely an economics discussion forum. To me, it is first and foremost a community. Helping one another out in hard times should be one of the things that comes with that. Even those who come here to disagree can still share an appreciation of the fact that this is a place where we can disagree with respect. You certainly have much moral support here, but please let us know if we can do more.



I'd also like to add my voice to those noting that your comment is the furthest thing from improper! Such stories are not tangential distractions from the issues of the day. They are instead highly representative -- a manifestation of the essential zeitgeist that is driving this country to new places, new perspectives, and unpredictable elections. Thank you for having the courage to share such feelings of vulnerability. I am sure you are speaking for many more who are silent, when you do so.

[santafe2]

Re: Trump to win?

But as jk's signature says, we already have socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for everyone else.

shiny!, I think jk's signature is posted to remind us of a great iTuliper, Sapiens.