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  • #31
    Re: Trump to win?

    I think people underestimate Trump. He does nothing half-hearted.

    I also think he has reached a point in his life similar to what other billionaires have experienced. Bill Gates or Andrew Carnegie for example. For some reason, he wants to make a lasting impact beyond the business world, but in his own way. And lets face it, all politicians are narcissists - Trump doesn't have a monopoly on that. And that, to me, is the reason he wants to run for president - to make an impact, yet continue to fuel his ego at the same time. His persona is not one to quietly start a foundation or just donate money. He wants the spotlight so everyone sees him in action.

    Think about all the other politicians. Why do they want to be president, and what are they willing to do to become president? The latter worries me more. The system is indeed broken.

    He really is angry, and when he says he has begrudgingly bought politicians, and that represents a broken system, I can't argue he's not being sincere.

    He's the only politician that can speak and act freely. No matter what the other politicians say, in the backrooms of the political world, their ability to do what is "right" for the country has already been jeopardized.

    I think Eisenhower was the last unencumbered president. Not that there weren't others before him. But what bothers me is that it has been that long since the US has had an independent person in the White House.

    Hillary supported the Iraq War and is the banking world's representative, a true Clinton Part II. Bernie is too extreme, though I often agree with his diagnoses. The Bible thumpers? They give the poor and middle class religion and then unleash their elite overlords on them.

    Maybe if Biden stepped in, and did the one term Presidency promise, he could effect needed change - as that would make him almost bulletproof to vested interests.

    But really, I've seen too many elections where both parties were well funded, and at the end of the day, the political arguments I had engaged in pro or con any particular candidate were ultimately exercises in futility. I'm almost embarrassed to have thought there would have been that much of a difference between the candidates.

    Finally, I think it would be refreshing to see a businessman in charge and not a professional politician. The modern day professional politician is merely an extension of vested interests and "democracy" is merely a show for the masses.

    Wouldn't it be useful if before every televised debate, the moderators introduced each candidate and ran down a list of their major donors? Or had the corporate logos of their major donors splattered all over their podiums? Isn't that information necessary for the voter to make an informed opinion?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Trump to win?

      Originally posted by Woodsman View Post
      Dc, from your lips to god's ears but Sanders will never be elected. And there isn't the interest at Justice or Treasury for that kind of work. The right has seeded it too much with graduates of fourth and fifth tier law schools, never mind the elite grads with an entrepreneurial bent dreaming of doing good while doing well, or however they rationalize it. Anyone who might have a predilection to trust busting does their best to keep their heads down for that sort of action. Too dangerous for the career.

      Bernie will end his days as the esteemed Senator from Vermont, the conscience of the Senate blah blah yakety yak. And if by some twist of fate he is elected President, then he'll do an Obama/Clinton neolib sellout. Either that or get suckered like Jimmy Carter into historical irrelevance. It's not to say I'm not fond of the dude. I really am. I know Bernie is the real deal and has "kept it real", as the divine Mesdames "Diamond and Silk" might say, since pretty much back in his first day in the House (longer, still).

      My lame claim to fame, I once rode in a car with Bernie on the Capital subway coming out of the Rayburn building and stood in his outer office a couple of times back when he was a Congressman. He was just as shlubby and unkempt as you see on tube, only a little thinner. Of course, we've all put on a few. I was on the other side of him at the time but worked with his staff on some pretty high visibility bills and they were always square with me and the boss. Of course, even as an independent Bernie was in the majority at the time so it was easy to be magnanimous, I suppose.

      I saw him about the corridors when I worked the 102 Congress, but it wasn't until the 103rd until I actually went into his office and interacted with his staff. Remember, he didn't bill himself as a Democratic Socialist or even a Democrat at the time. He was the Independent from Vermont (Socialist) and didn't really caucus with the Democrats until he and Ron Dellums set up the CPC. And even then he was the leftiest lefty in the caucus in what was a pretty crowded field at the time. Kids today look at Obama and Kerry and Clinton and say leftist, socialist, whatever, but they never knew one if they don't know about Mr. Dellums, Mr. DeFazio, Mrs. Waters, Mr. Bonior and the other left-liberals on that first caucus.

      I worked in the minority at the time on the other side of Bernie but interacted with his staff to kill some product safety and liability legislation that was trying to shake down and strong arm domestic manufacturers through the courts after failing miserably through legislation in a deliberate death by a thousand cuts strategy. It was one of the earliest full spectrum multimedia campaigns that I recall using the coordinated and combined resources of the courts, the administration, the interest groups and all to a single end. Of course, that wasn't anything new, but the scale was what surprised me, not to mention the conscious and deliberate cooperation of the media as an equal partner in the enterprise. Again, not that this was new, but it was the degree of organizational discipline and systematic approach that struck me.

      So this lefty pinko commie Sanders worked with some of the most (and I mean most) conservative and pro-business organizations and personalities in the government and out to expose and roll back the effort. And we won, passing legislation that protected lawful commerce and looked after the interest of the little guy as well as the big bad industrialists. Personally, I like the guy and nowadays I agree with him more and more as I catch up with him in age.

      But that might as well have been a million years ago, back when government albeit grudgingly and with no deliberate speed still worked for more of us at least some of the time. Back when Kerry had moral courage and was closer to the memories of his war. Back when Pelosi had something resembling a moral conscience. Back when there really were real liberals in Congress and conservatives still had a sense of shame and limits, even in the leadership. Before what was left of the left overreached and underestimated with Iran-Contra in what would turn out to be their last gasp. Before the Contract and the Gingrich mess. Before the name Bush was a punchline. Before Clinton sold out the Democrats to the highest bidder. Before the GOP sold what remained of its soul to the devil.

      And it's because I like Bernie I really hope he isn't elected. He's no saint and does what he has to do as a politician, don't kid yourself kids. But he is the real deal and if by some insane quirk of history he should be elected, well he might actually believe he's President and start acting like one. And the people who put him there, this children's crusade, well they might actually think that they could make it into something of a mass movement to "take back" what was lost. If that were to happen, well then it would really set the wheels moving among the owners of the country and they would very likely freak out and lash out.

      If Bernie is like I remember him, or at least his reputation at the time, I think he might actually run with it and put himself in mortal danger. I mean, if the plutocrats who own the country are willing to finance a propaganda/psyops campaign of the likes we've seen against the "socialist" Obama - kayfabe as it is - I shudder to think what they might have in store for a genuine socialist and honest-to-god old school leftie like Bernie Sanders if he starts talking "revolution" like this guy once did.



      The owners no longer content with operating the enterprise through surrogates, have decided to place one of their own "incorruptibles" in the White House. And so that is what will happen. If Bernie were to screw that up and then actually try to govern, well then he'd have to go.
      You forgot Ross Perot in 1992/1996.

      His polling numbers, his platform, and his prescient forward projections that have since become accurately predicted history would certainly be worth a mention in your diatribe that mentioned everyone since the 1960's except him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Trump to win?

        Originally posted by lakedaemonian View Post
        You forgot Ross Perot in 1992/1996.

        His polling numbers, his platform, and his prescient forward projections that have since become accurately predicted history would certainly be worth a mention in your diatribe that mentioned everyone since the 1960's except him.
        it was perot's presence on the ballot as a 3rd party candidate that allowed clinton to win.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Trump to win?

          Originally posted by jk View Post
          it was perot's presence on the ballot as a 3rd party candidate that allowed clinton to win.
          It's amazing, actually, how often in American history a 3rd party candidate does this. Commentators like to make sweeping statements about the number of Republican/Democratic administrations in a row, etc. But very often there's a Nader or a Perot or a Wallace or a Thurmond or a La Follette or some crazy Wilson/Roosevelt/Taft/Debs free-for-all that decides the outcome of elections.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Trump to win?

            What would a Trump Presidency look like? Do his Powers of Persuasion force congress to do his bidding or do they stay bought? How does this average out?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Trump to win?

              Originally posted by jk View Post
              it was perot's presence on the ballot as a 3rd party candidate that allowed clinton to win.
              Especially in 1992.

              I wonder how Perot thought about that impact?

              What would the difference have been with a two term Bush I administration?

              In the public's mind as well as Perot's?

              Where would we be with NAFTA and deregulation under Bush I?

              "Peace dividend" and tech boom?

              I suspect not terribly different.

              As a cynical optimist, I'm hopeful Perot has a final "F U" to the "machine" on his way out the door.

              It's a shame he could not effect positive change.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Trump to win?

                Originally posted by LazyBoy View Post
                What would a Trump Presidency look like? Do his Powers of Persuasion force congress to do his bidding or do they stay bought? How does this average out?
                I think Trump would be a bully, particularly in the media, that makes LBJ's use of his size and invasion of personal space seem pleasant by comparison.

                Watching video of Trump ruthlessly and relentlessly screwing down his contractors after deals have been done leads me to believe he would be equally ruthless and relentless with Congress hitting them individually.

                I suspect the use and/or threat of Executive Action would also spike higher.

                -----

                As far as specific detail goes, I'd want to see a list of advisors and likely folks for each position before commenting.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Trump to win?

                  Some think that Bloomberg will run but

                  http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...president.html

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Trump to win?

                    WMUR poll: Sanders soars to commanding lead over Clinton in New Hampshire

                    http://www.wmur.com/politics/wmur-po...shire/37513446

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Trump to win?

                      http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...r-and-over.htm

                      Victor Davis Hanson: The Many Contradictions Of Hillary Clinton



                      Victor Davis Hanson


                      Hillary Clinton recently said she'd go after offshore tax "schemes" in the Caribbean. That's a worthy endeavor, given the loss of billions of dollars in U.S. tax revenue.
                      Yet her husband, Bill Clinton, reportedly made $10 million as an advisor and an occasional partner in the Yucaipa Global Partnership, a fund registered in the Cayman Islands.
                      Is Ms. Clinton's implicit argument that she knows offshore tax-dodging is unethical because her family has benefited from it? Does she plan to return millions of dollars of her family's offshore-generated income?

                      Clinton is calling for "huge campaign finance reform," apparently to end the excessive and often pernicious role of big money in politics. But no candidate, Republican or Democrat, raised more than the $112 million that Clinton collected in 2015 for her primary campaign.

                      In 2013, Clinton earned nearly $1.6 million in speaking fees from Wall Street banks. She raked in $675,000 from Goldman Sachs and $225,000 apiece from Bank of America, Deutsche Bank, Morgan Stanley and UBS Wealth Management. Did that profiteering finally sour Clinton on Wall Street's pay-for-play ethics?
                      Clinton has also vowed to raise taxes on hedge fund managers. Is that a way of expressing displeasure with her son-in-law, Marc Mezvinsky, who operates a $400 million hedge fund?

                      For that matter, how did Clinton's daughter, Chelsea — who worked for a consulting firm and a hedge fund despite having no background in finance — reportedly become worth an estimated $15 million?

                      Hillary Clinton recently proposed a new $350 billion government plan to make college more affordable. Certainly, universities spike tuition costs, and student-loan debt has surpassed $1 trillion. Colleges spend money indiscriminately, mostly because they know that the federal government will always back student loans.
                      Yet, since she left office, Clinton routinely has charged universities $200,000 or more for her brief 30-minute chats. Her half-hour fee is roughly equal to the annual public-university tuition cost for eight students.

                      It's been said that Clinton is trying to rekindle President Obama's 2012 allegations of a Republican "war on women." That charge and the war against the "one percent" helped deliver key states to Obama. Renewing that theme, Clinton recently declared on Twitter, "Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed and supported."
                      Does Clinton's spirited advocacy of "every" survivor include the array of women who have accused Bill Clinton of sexual misconduct? In other words, does Hillary now trust the testimonies of survivors such as Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey and Paula Jones, whose allegations must be "believed and supported?"





                      Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...#ixzz3xsBumAXD
                      Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

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                      • #41
                        Re: Trump to win?

                        Originally posted by vt View Post
                        Some think that Bloomberg will run but

                        http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...president.html
                        Bloomberg again threatened to run if Democrats don't pick Hillary.

                        Sanders' response is exactly what I figured it would be...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Trump to win?

                          Trump had a peaceful Sikh protester holding a "Stop Hate" sign ejected from a rally. Trump pointed to a supporter wearing one of his blue "Make America Great Again" hats and said, "He wasn't wearing one of those hats was he? And he never will, and that's OK because we got to do something folks because it's not working."

                          http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=36487760

                          I wonder if he would have had a rabbi, Catholic priest or nun ejected for holding up a "Stop Hate" sign? Because it looked to me like Trump suffers from the same ignorance as Frank Silva Roque and Michael Page.

                          Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Trump to win?

                            Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                            Trump had a peaceful Sikh protester holding a "Stop Hate" sign ejected from a rally. Trump pointed to a supporter wearing one of his blue "Make America Great Again" hats and said, "He wasn't wearing one of those hats was he? And he never will, and that's OK because we got to do something folks because it's not working."

                            http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=36487760

                            I wonder if he would have had a rabbi, Catholic priest or nun ejected for holding up a "Stop Hate" sign? Because it looked to me like Trump suffers from the same ignorance as Frank Silva Roque and Michael Page.
                            Disgusting. Although, and I don't have any polls on Trump and religion, but I'm guessing he's severely underperforming with Jews and with Catholics too. Between his "you people" comment at the Republican Jewish Coalition Presidential Forum, and the series of anti-Catholic remarks and reaction by American Cardinals, Trump's only hope is to turn out a record number of WASPs and German-American Protestants. It's not like I don't look at these numbers. Romney turned out 49% of Catholic voters, and it wasn't enough. Trump has burned that bridge, if not to the ground, I'd guess down to the less than 40% level. And I'd further guess that his percentage of religious, non-Christian voters will be considerably less than Romney's 26%. Romney lost because he couldn't turn out enough married, Protestant white people. Trump would have to overcome even more headwinds to pull off what Romney couldn't.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Trump to win?

                              the question for trump is how many "reagan democrats" he'd pick up.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Trump to win?

                                For those who think most politicians are bought and owned by special interests (and I tend to think this way myself), why do presidents act basically the same way in their second term as they do in their first? You'd think that in their second term they'd be free to do anything they like (within the confines of what congress allows of course).

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