Trump to win?

[BK]

Re: Trump to win?

Moderates don't organize as well as zealot liberal or extreme conservatives.

I'd love to see the change. 1952 newspaper article https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,2275263&hl=en

How about the warring Illinois Democrats in 1968 https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...2,573367&hl=en

Journalist have always presented the War like nature of contemporary politics as more intense than ever to keep readers engaged.

[santafe2]

Re: Trump to win?

Just a reminder, it could be worse but again, ultimately, he'll lose.

[Woodsman]

Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

...And you bet I am encouraging disruptive protest as a means for railing against Trump's bullying. Legal and non-violent, but otherwise as disruptive as humanly possible.

So it begins. About goddamn time, too.



Remember the words of that great American Mario Salvo:

Of course, if this "spring" is financed and egged on by the same folks responsible for the other "springs," then we're totally ufcked.

[gnk]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

And that will GUARANTEE a Trump Presidency.

[Woodsman]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

And that will GUARANTEE a Trump Presidency.

In your opinion, of course. And so far, no one's opinions (mine own included) has been worth a hill of beans in terms of predictive value.

What guarantees a Trump presidency is 270 electoral votes. Nothing more or less.

How's life in paradise?

[gnk]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

Life's good, can't complain, despite the headlines you have probably read about Greece lately. I'm on the western side of Greece, in the Ionian Sea, so relatively quiet compared to the Eastern Aegean, Athens/Pireaus, and the Greek northern border. I don't know what the hell this country or the EU is going to do about this mass migration mess, but as most know, Greece is the last country in Europe that can handle such a crisis of humanity (both in terms of financial cost and competence.)

I may be going to Athens within a couple months to visit some friends, and see firsthand what is going on, If so, I'll report what I see here on itulip.

[jk]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

implications and inferences:

this article, american spring, [analogous to the arab spring”] is worth reading- brief, trenchant.




American Spring
A one party system ran the United States, and the United States ran the world.
The US had checks and balances — governing required consensus, and the people were freed from kings. To protect speech, the framers left out a rule against conspiracies to monopolize the vote.
Political parties formed to monopolize the vote. The losing parties kept ganging up until only two parties remained. Resembling vast and immortal corporations, they consolidated all political power.
The parties need mass media to win elections. Media literally intermediates reality and programs voters by framing the acceptable parameters of any debate. Mass media costs mass money.
The elites, a plutocracy of the top few percent, bought the parties. So cheaply in fact, that they bought both.
The elites are merely people that went to the right schools, grew up in the right neighborhoods, and came from the right money and the right families. It’s not a formal conspiracy — rather an intricate and distributed system, organized by the invisible hand of the market, voting with dollars and newspaper ink, and controlling the country all the same.
Within some parameters, the elites argue — bombs from the air or boots on the ground? How much should we tax income?
Mostly the elites agree to keep power with elite institutions, controlling the masses who cannot be trusted. Yes to wars, yes to mass surveillance, yes to bailouts, yes to war on drugs, yes to war on terror, yes to endless copyrights, yes to monopolies and oligopolies, no to term limits, no to wealth taxes… On these and others, pick R or D, there are no choices.
The Elite Party runs the system and it basically works. The elite stay elite. Income may be taxed, but wealth compounds. The most belligerent and implacable of the masses are sent to fight in mercifully distant wars. Crime happens in other people’s neighborhoods. The prisons are full and everyone is being watched. The pie expands, slowly and un-evenly, and all is well.
One weakness — the presidency is a single office of great visibility and power, directly and democratically elected. One person, one vote. Regardless of education, ethic, breeding, knowledge, achievement. Is everyone actually, really, equally qualified to vote, the elites wonder?
The elites lock the crown behind two massive gates — it costs a billion dollars to run for president. And incalculable, favorable mass media exposure.
This works well — so well that the elites get lazy, handing off presidential power within dynasties — between fathers and sons, husbands and wives.
Statistically speaking, what are the odds that the two most qualified candidates to be president out of 300 million people are siblings? Or married?
Barack Obama interrupts an in-process coronation. Using hope, change, and emerging alternative online media, he organizes and brings new voters to the polls. But back then, it still takes television, money, newspapers, and the party apparatus. He can’t and doesn’t do it alone, and eventually joins the elite.
Today, it’s a different world. YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook let one human broadcast to billions, without permission, without censors, without delay. Social media makes mass organization and resistance possible.
The Arab Spring is just one consequence. The American Spring of 2016 is another.
Social and alternative media dominates and disintermediates mass media. Every column brings a hundred rebuttals. The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal are stood like commoners next to bloggers, begging for tweets, likes, and votes. We are all journalists and editors now.
Bernie can play this game. The MoveOn crowd organizes effortlessly using the new media.
Trump can play this game. The reality show vet generates outrage and impressions, tweeting as he goes.
Meanwhile, the Internet kills the political ad. Everyone is online — skipping, blocking, or just mis-clicking.
Bernie spends a bit on ads. Trump doesn’t bother.
It’s not just publishing — the Internet lets anyone donate little bits online. Bernie taps the crowd — over a million dollars a day from small donors! Again, Trump doesn’t bother. He just self-finances.
The mass media barrier is down. The money barrier is down.
A mob is pushing Bernie. Trump is pulling one behind him.
The elites are livid. They sneer at the masses — Uneducated. Socialist. Racist. Luddite.
Throughout history, elites and plutocrats have feared direct democracy. One-person, one-vote logically leads towards mob rule. Socialism. Tribalism. The masses are always “crazier” than the elites. The elites like the status quo, so they pull policy towards the center. It’s the masses that want real change.
YouTube killed TV and Twitter ate the news. Donald’s tweeting from his jet and Bernie’s kickstarter went viral. Software is eating politics and the elites have lost control.
Now we see “of the people, by the people, and for the people.” The neatly labeled bundles of “Democrat” and “Republican” are going to get re-assembled by the voters, one vote at a time instead of one dollar at a time.
Sanders’ voters think the rich stole their money. Trump’s voters think the illegals stole their jobs.
There is no more establishment. Like all things Internet, social media and crowd financing are unstoppable. Every large future election will have outsiders out-organizing, out-raising, and out-raging the establishment.
America is going from a republic of elites to a direct democracy. Look to your left, and look to your right. Wake up — the people are here.

[jk]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

implications and inferences:

this article, american spring, [analogous to the arab spring”] is worth reading- brief, trenchant.




American Spring
http://startupboy.com

A one party system ran the United States, and the United States ran the world.

The US had checks and balances — governing required consensus, and the people were freed from kings. To protect speech, the framers left out a rule against conspiracies to monopolize the vote.
Political parties formed to monopolize the vote. The losing parties kept ganging up until only two parties remained. Resembling vast and immortal corporations, they consolidated all political power.
The parties need mass media to win elections. Media literally intermediates reality and programs voters by framing the acceptable parameters of any debate. Mass media costs mass money.

The elites, a plutocracy of the top few percent, bought the parties. So cheaply in fact, that they bought both.

The elites are merely people that went to the right schools, grew up in the right neighborhoods, and came from the right money and the right families. It’s not a formal conspiracy — rather an intricate and distributed system, organized by the invisible hand of the market, voting with dollars and newspaper ink, and controlling the country all the same.

Within some parameters, the elites argue — bombs from the air or boots on the ground? How much should we tax income?

Mostly the elites agree to keep power with elite institutions, controlling the masses who cannot be trusted. Yes to wars, yes to mass surveillance, yes to bailouts, yes to war on drugs, yes to war on terror, yes to endless copyrights, yes to monopolies and oligopolies, no to term limits, no to wealth taxes… On these and others, pick R or D, there are no choices.

The Elite Party runs the system and it basically works. The elite stay elite. Income may be taxed, but wealth compounds. The most belligerent and implacable of the masses are sent to fight in mercifully distant wars. Crime happens in other people’s neighborhoods. The prisons are full and everyone is being watched. The pie expands, slowly and un-evenly, and all is well.

One weakness — the presidency is a single office of great visibility and power, directly and democratically elected. One person, one vote. Regardless of education, ethic, breeding, knowledge, achievement. Is everyone actually, really, equally qualified to vote, the elites wonder?

The elites lock the crown behind two massive gates — it costs a billion dollars to run for president. And incalculable, favorable mass media exposure.

This works well — so well that the elites get lazy, handing off presidential power within dynasties — between fathers and sons, husbands and wives.

Statistically speaking, what are the odds that the two most qualified candidates to be president out of 300 million people are siblings? Or married?

Barack Obama interrupts an in-process coronation. Using hope, change, and emerging alternative online media, he organizes and brings new voters to the polls. But back then, it still takes television, money, newspapers, and the party apparatus. He can’t and doesn’t do it alone, and eventually joins the elite.

Today, it’s a different world. YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook let one human broadcast to billions, without permission, without censors, without delay. Social media makes mass organization and resistance possible.

The Arab Spring is just one consequence. The American Spring of 2016 is another.
Social and alternative media dominates and disintermediates mass media. Every column brings a hundred rebuttals. The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal are stood like commoners next to bloggers, begging for tweets, likes, and votes. We are all journalists and editors now.
Bernie can play this game. The MoveOn crowd organizes effortlessly using the new media.
Trump can play this game. The reality show vet generates outrage and impressions, tweeting as he goes.

Meanwhile, the Internet kills the political ad. Everyone is online — skipping, blocking, or just mis-clicking.

Bernie spends a bit on ads. Trump doesn’t bother.

It’s not just publishing — the Internet lets anyone donate little bits online. Bernie taps the crowd — over a million dollars a day from small donors! Again, Trump doesn’t bother. He just self-finances.
The mass media barrier is down. The money barrier is down.

A mob is pushing Bernie. Trump is pulling one behind him.

The elites are livid. They sneer at the masses — Uneducated. Socialist. Racist. Luddite.
Throughout history, elites and plutocrats have feared direct democracy. One-person, one-vote logically leads towards mob rule. Socialism. Tribalism. The masses are always “crazier” than the elites. The elites like the status quo, so they pull policy towards the center. It’s the masses that want real change.

YouTube killed TV and Twitter ate the news. Donald’s tweeting from his jet and Bernie’s kickstarter went viral. Software is eating politics and the elites have lost control.

Now we see “of the people, by the people, and for the people.” The neatly labeled bundles of “Democrat” and “Republican” are going to get re-assembled by the voters, one vote at a time instead of one dollar at a time.

Sanders’ voters think the rich stole their money. Trump’s voters think the illegals stole their jobs.
There is no more establishment. Like all things Internet, social media and crowd financing are unstoppable. Every large future election will have outsiders out-organizing, out-raising, and out-raging the establishment.

America is going from a republic of elites to a direct democracy. Look to your left, and look to your right. Wake up — the people are here.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

CLEMENTE: Have you been following the presidential campaign?

LEBOWITZ: I'm following it, but in a way, I also feel the way I feel about the Kardashians: I feel like it's following me. I've never seen the Kardashians; I'm not sure who they are. But I know a lot about them because it's impossible not to. And I feel this way more and more about the Republican candidates, certainly. If I lived in another country, like a country that was, say, an enemy of the United States, I would be more amused than I am. I mean, it is pretty shocking. On the other hand, in the last few weeks, a couple of times I had dinner with people where I was the only American at the table, and I was yelled at for Donald Trump, like he was my fault. Donald Trump is not my fault. You can blame certain things on me, but not Donald Trump. Like everyone else, I never imagined Donald Trump would get this far. As a Democrat, I'd quite like him to be the candidate. He's not going to be president. I firmly believe that. They also deserve him as candidate, all these so-called mainstream Republicans—I don't know what that's supposed to mean. They're all right-wing nuts. They're acting as if the other people are Abraham Lincoln. New Yorkers, we've seen Donald Trump for, like, 30 years; we know who he is. So he wasn't a surprise to me. But all the rest of them were, including Jeb Bush. I had an ingrained hatred of Jeb before I ever saw him. For numerous reasons. One of which is that I strongly object to having more than one generation of a family being president. I mean, that is why we had that little war with England. I had always heard that Jeb Bush was the smart one. He was the one that was supposed to be president. Like there is an American family where someone's supposed to be president. No one's supposed to be the president. This is not England. And it's not just the Bush family, all families designate each child as having some particular trait. Like, this is the smart one, this is the pretty one. And the truth is that most families have no smart ones and no pretty ones. Most families are a bunch of unattractive dopes. And it turns out that the Bush family, like most families, has no smart ones. I was not surprised to see this.

[vt]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

I agree the Republicans are a total train wreck, but so are the Democrats!

The Bushes are a dynasty (emphasis on nasty with Jeb) that is entitlement on steroids. The Clinton dynasty (lying nasties) is trying to give us a world class liar, and an incompetent one too.

Bernie has accomplished absolutely nothing in life, and is trying to promote a failed policy that will further hurt the working men and women of this country.

Only competent individuals like Mark Warner and Jim Webb begin to approach the level of leadership and accomplishment that will help this nation achieve it's promise for the non-elites.

Sadly we will probably never have the chance to see this.

[Woodsman]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

Man, here I am ready to congratulate you on your progress.

I agree the Republicans are a total train wreck, but so are the Democrats!

The Bushes are a dynasty (emphasis on nasty with Jeb) that is entitlement on steroids. The Clinton dynasty (lying nasties) is trying to give us a world class liar, and an incompetent one too.

And then you go and crap the bed again.

Bernie has accomplished absolutely nothing in life, and is trying to promote a failed policy that will further hurt the working men and women of this country.

In terms of economic policy, Bernie is TECI. There's no escaping that and a quick comparison between EJ's book and Bernie's plan is all you need to confirm it. And far from a record of failure, it's been a boon to the working men and women of America every time it's been applied with sufficient conviction. I think over the past several weeks we're coming closer to consensus that it's what needs to be done and what will be done to avert continued deflation and increasing social and political chaos. The only questions left is who will do it, to what degree and when it will commence.

The rest is pretty much baked in the cake, I think. I'm sorry you don't like the messenger and would urge you to examine your prejudice. For in persisting with this slander that Senator Sanders never had a "real job" or "accomplished nothing" you degrade yourself in precisely the same manner as the dynastic nasty liars you call out.

You may not like the jobs Sanders held before entering politics, you may disagree with his politics. But you're every bit the liar and just as guilty when you advance this stupid right wing trope. And just who the hell put you in a position to pass judgment on another man's work or value, anyway? There are enough self-righteous, sanctimonious upper-middle class (or hope to be) pricks in the world, vt. I think you can do better, although I seem to be in the minority.

Sander's work record is verifiable information and as a working class guy he's had to hustle for a living same as you and me. He held any number of jobs real enough to the people who do them then and now. And if you think running for local office like Mayor and then doing the job well enough to be re-elected and advanced all the way to the United States Senate isn't any sort of accomplishment, well what can anyone say to you that would make a difference.?

Only competent individuals like Mark Warner and Jim Webb begin to approach the level of leadership and accomplishment that will help this nation achieve it's promise for the non-elites. Sadly we will probably never have the chance to see this.

It might help your case for these guys if you were to be a bit more consistent in your criticism. For precisely the same can be said of the men you so admire.

Your boy wonder Warner spent the largest part of his life working on the taxpayer's dole or waiting to get on it since his days as a PoliSci major at GW to his time as Chris Dodd's staffer. He made his riches of off the backs of the American people and then bought his way back into political office, but other than that he's a self-made guy.

While working as a government paid partisan political operative (aka, "Senate Staff" - how's that for a real job) Warner became Chris Dodd's telecom expert. Warner, an HLS grad who has never practiced a day of law, then took the insider knowledge he gained as a public employee writing telecom law in committee and parlayed that into a personal fortune manipulating said laws. Warner is now the richest man in the Senate with a net worth touching $260 million. After a lifetime in public service, Sanders can cash out his life at about $500K.

As for Jim Webb, he and Bernie both have similar resumes - both have a lifetime in public service (and cashing public paychecks) with Webb moving from the Marines to a House staff position, and then straight on to the DoD. And both earned a living in the private sector from writing books and producing films.

For whatever reason, Democrats outside of Virginia don't seem interested in electing a right wing conservative like Webb, but I understand why you like him as much as you seem to hate Sanders.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

Of course, if this "spring" is financed and egged on by the same folks responsible for the other "springs," then we're totally ufcked.

I don't see how the billionaires running the system will be swayed by 20 somethings that they generally loathe for "not working hard enough."

It most likely will take a billionaire insider to change the system or another 1929.

[shiny!]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

Arizona had record turnout today. Trump beat Cruz in a landslide. Clinton beat Sanders in a smaller landslide. But the big news here is how the voters in Maricopa County got screwed. Normally we have at least 200 polling places. Today we had 60 polling places for 1,250,000 voters. Mesa, the 3rd largest city in the state, only had 4 polling places. People waited in lines for up to FIVE HOURS with no shade, no water, no bathrooms. Through it all, people were incredibly patient, incredibly gracious.

Independents showed up and waited in lines for hours, only to be told when they got in that only registered Dems, Repubs and Greens could vote. People who had filled out early ballots stood in lines for hours, not knowing that they could just walk inside and drop their ballot in a box.

The polls closed at 7:00pm but when the projected winners were being announced on the 10:00 pm news there were still hundreds of people in lines waiting to vote. At 11:00 pm there were still people waiting in lines.

A lot of people couldn't wait in line so long and left.

Channel 15 interviewed the head of the county recorder and elections office to ask who was at fault for the long lines. She blamed the voters for showing up and standing in line!

[Woodsman]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

Arizona had record turnout today. Trump beat Cruz in a landslide. Clinton beat Sanders in a smaller landslide. But the big news here is how the voters in Maricopa County got screwed. Normally we have at least 200 polling places. Today we had 60 polling places for 1,250,000 voters. Mesa, the 3rd largest city in the state, only had 4 polling places. People waited in lines for up to FIVE HOURS with no shade, no water, no bathrooms. Through it all, people were incredibly patient, incredibly gracious.

Independents showed up and waited in lines for hours, only to be told when they got in that only registered Dems, Repubs and Greens could vote. People who had filled out early ballots stood in lines for hours, not knowing that they could just walk inside and drop their ballot in a box.

The polls closed at 7:00pm but when the projected winners were being announced on the 10:00 pm news there were still hundreds of people in lines waiting to vote. At 11:00 pm there were still people waiting in lines.

A lot of people couldn't wait in line so long and left.

Channel 15 interviewed the head of the county recorder and elections office to ask who was at fault for the long lines. She blamed the voters for showing up and standing in line!

Don't you "get it" shiny!? The "Crisis of Democracy" is that too many people want it, too many want to participate. For people like Clinton and her representatives in your local elections office, the problem is that there is too much democracy.

[santafe2]

Re: Sauce for the goose (Soros-stopheles at work BooogaaboogaBOO!)

Independents showed up and waited in lines for hours, only to be told when they got in that only registered Dems, Repubs and Greens could vote. People who had filled out early ballots stood in lines for hours, not knowing that they could just walk inside and drop their ballot in a box.

What's more interesting shiny! is that they're wrong. Independents can vote in AZ however they want to vote. I happen to be working in Tucson this week and several people mentioned that they were independent and had voted early. So it's true you can't vote independent but you can use a ballot from one of the three recognized parties. After talking to people in this office it wouldn't surprise me to find out that independent is the largest voting block in AZ.