Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

[Fox]

Ukraine Says Russian Armored Vehicles Destroyed

Ukrainian artillery destroyed a large part of a column of armored vehicles that had been seen entering Ukraine from Russia, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said Friday.

Ukraine, backed by Western capitals, has for weeks accused Russia of sending men and heavy weapons to pro-Russia rebels that hold several towns and cities in Ukraine's east.

Late Thursday, reporters from two British newspapers said they had witnessed a column of around 20 vehicles crossing the border in an area outside the control of Ukrainian authorities.

The reported episode was near where Russian trucks loaded with what Moscow says are relief supplies destined for eastern Ukraine had stopped for the night, adding to fears that the convoy was a prelude to a Russian military intervention. Russia has denied sending men and weapons into eastern Ukraine.

What are the odds the Ukraine military just shelled the relief convoy?

Note the part I underlined. Ukraine customs already inspected the convoy. So what's with the "Moscow says". No bias here.

Personally I can't believe the Russians actually invaded at this point. Ukraine and the West, especially the US, have become bubbling buffoons over the situation in Ukraine. I'm sure Putin is smart enough and patient enough to know that if he just sits back the West will screw-up on their own accord with out any help from him.

Which quite frankly, I think they just did.

However unlike shredded fragments of a passenger jet; the evidence in this event will be black and white:
A) Russia was just caught invading Ukraine and we verge on WW3
B) Ukraine military is incompetent, the West are arrogant fools and this will wind down with a parade of war crimes against Ukraine.

With all we have seen so far I'm leaning towards B

Let the fiasco of social media reconnaissance begin.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

Ukraine Says Russian Armored Vehicles Destroyed



What are the odds the Ukraine military just shelled the relief convoy?

Note the part I underlined. Ukraine customs already inspected the convoy. So what's with the "Moscow says". No bias here.

Personally I can't believe the Russians actually invaded at this point. Ukraine and the West, especially the US, have become bubbling buffoons over the situation in Ukraine. I'm sure Putin is smart enough and patient enough to know that if he just sits back the West will screw-up on their own accord with out any help from him.

Which quite frankly, I think they just did.

However unlike shredded fragments of a passenger jet; the evidence in this event will be black and white:
A) Russia was just caught invading Ukraine and we verge on WW3
B) Ukraine military is incompetent, the West are arrogant fools and this will wind down with a parade of war crimes against Ukraine.

With all we have seen so far I'm leaning towards B

Let the fiasco of social media reconnaissance begin.

When there were reports of Russians massing at the border there was no trouble in releasing the photos. So lets see it, and the wreckage which should still be there. Until then why bother?


See, just like here:
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/sate...ukraine-border

[don]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

Are we closer to midnight?

[sutro]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

When there were reports of Russians massing at the border there was no trouble in releasing the photos. So lets see it, and the wreckage which should still be there. Until then why bother?


See, just like here:
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/sate...ukraine-border

After Russia invades the Urkraine, like they did in Crimea, Czechoslovakia, Hungry etc., that plane will windup but a footnote to the larger events as they unfold. Sort of like Flights 007 and 655 (Russian and American shootdowns in the 80s).

[goadam1]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

kiev spring

After Russia invades the Urkraine, like they did in Crimea, Czechoslovakia, Hungry etc., that plane will windup but a footnote to the larger events as they unfold. Sort of like Flights 007 and 655 (Russian and American shootdowns in the 80s).

[Slimprofits]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

When there were reports of Russians massing at the border there was no trouble in releasing the photos. So lets see it, and the wreckage which should still be there. Until then why bother?


See, just like here:
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/sate...ukraine-border

Gotta love the comments section on that one.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

After Russia invades the Urkraine, like they did in Crimea, Czechoslovakia, Hungry etc., that plane will windup but a footnote to the larger events as they unfold. Sort of like Flights 007 and 655 (Russian and American shootdowns in the 80s).

Anytime anyone mixes up the Soviet Union and Russia I know they are basically ignorant. Media-Persia, Parthian-Seleucid. What difference does it make right?
Crimea is Russian. Czechoslovakia, Hungry etc. attacked the Soviet Union as an axis power which unfortunately for them backfired. Don't lose to a ruthless dictator like Stalin.


Was Czechoslovakia a poor helpless puppet of the mean Germans?

Look again:



Tears of joy...

And if the Soviet Union was not a Russian empire gone bad and turned against them, how do you explain a Georgist dictator who deported Russians into Kazakhstan? How do you explain most of the Soviet leadership being minorities? How do you explain the longest run being Ukrainian Soviet premiers? How do you explain targeting Russian culture like the Orthodox church, Korenizatsiya and "great russian chauvinism" = bad. Who was the puppet to whom? were the poor Czechoslovakian's, Hungarians and Romanians killing Soviets just poor puppets of the Germans , but not Russians Soviet puppets of a Eurasian polygot?

Korenizatsiya nativization

http://books.google.com/books?id=5Cq...zation&f=false

You sure you got all that sorted out? You know how empires actually work?

Of course Stalin 20 years later did restore "Russian" , cause he loved Russians? No he just decided it was the most practical way to run his empire with a dominant majority, much like the US has found little use for state power.

[touchring]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

Ukraine Says Russian Armored Vehicles Destroyed

Lot's of claims, but zero photographs.

I don't doubt that Putin is supplying the rebels with weapons and tanks over the past 4 months, but just like MH17, sometimes, it's good to use some common sense when reading what MSM reports.

Why would Putin send a convoy of tanks into Ukraine (in the same manner as the armored convoy rolling down the Red Square) at a time when there are hundreds of reporters from all over the world watching the border and the relief convoy?

[Shakespear]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

Now I would laugh if this turned out to be true,
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...oy-was-destroy

Anytime anyone mixes up the Soviet Union and Russia I know they are basically ignorant.

Right on the money. This is a tough for people to fathom having been brought up on FOXNews type of information sources. For those who do not know what we mean please hit the books. Even then it takes a little time to be fully cognizant of why you want to make the distinction in any discussion. Soviet Union at its inception was NOT ruled by Russians. Due to "conspiracy policy" issues I will let you do the rest of the homework. Homework which is well worth doing because the tentacles come right back to our front yard.

Was Czechoslovakia a poor helpless puppet of the mean Germans?

I'm glad you are calling a spade a spade. What am I talking about? It was not the Nazis that invaded Czechoslovakia or Fascist as is some times said, but Germans. This word game is played to frequently that I suspect some people think there is a country called Naziland. Same goes for Al Qaeda. "Al Qaeda attacked bla bla bla ....", which Al Qaeda? Anyone checked their party membership card and if dues were paid ? Words are often used that are complete rubbish in what meaning they convey, but to be sure meaning is being conveyed. A False meaning.

Choices of Words is very important. Look into the concept of "memes" to better understand this.

And if the Soviet Union was not a Russian empire gone bad and turned against them, how do you explain a Georgist dictator who deported Russians into Kazakhstan? How do you explain most of the Soviet leadership being minorities? How do you explain the longest run being Ukrainian Soviet premiers? How do you explain targeting Russian culture like the Orthodox church, Korenizatsiya and "great russian chauvinism" = bad. Who was the puppet to whom? were the poor Czechoslovakian's, Hungarians and Romanians killing Soviets just poor puppets of the Germans , but not Russians Soviet puppets of a Eurasian polygot?

gwynedd1, your piling on the poor souls too much homework :-) Most do not even understand well their own history. On a positive, want to better understand what is happening today in the world, then start to read history. Chose a book and go to Amazon comment section. Start with those giving very low ratings as this will frequently give you a clue where the controversies lie. The rest is your own thinking, analysis and critical reading of the information presented.

As to this attack on military vehicles, same ole' same ole', where is the evidence. I thought this was the world where satellites can see golf-balls from outer-space

Why would Putin send a convoy of tanks into Ukraine (in the same manner as the armored convoy rolling down the Red Square) at a time when there are hundreds of reporters from all over the world watching the border and the relief convoy?

Rush Lymbough would probable say because he is a crazy warmonger. On a serious side, most people do not have the reflex to pose such a question after a rich diet of FoxNews/CNN for 24/7. Once a label (meme) has been attached to something critical thinking is disengaged.

I find it amazing that few see an issue with a BILLIONAIRE running a country. I am still on topic, I am referring to Poroshenko.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/...o-run-ukraine/
A "self-made man". Foreign Policy Journal is a good agitprop to learn how to make a snake into a lamb .

I wouldn't believe this Poroshenko if he was talking about what he ate for breakfast. If we have problems with leaders having mistressis then I would think we should have problems with "leaders" who amass huge fortunes in dirt poor countries like Ukraine through violence and corruption. Well it isn't so because he is an "entrepreneur" and "knows how business works". Yepp, same ole memes. A good example of a criminal in a nice suite who hasn't done ANYTHING for Ukrainians except milk them dry. And he and his buddies had over 20 years to do it.
http://balkanblog.org/2014/07/26/wea...sociated-with/

A good book to understand something about Soviet Union and Russia maybe this
http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Empir...DateDescending

[touchring]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

So are we suppose to believe that an entire convoy of tanks was destroyed and vaporized into thin air with no trace, no bodies, no photos. Another MH370?

I suggest moving this thread to conspiracy as well. LOL

[Shakespear]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

So are we suppose to believe that an entire convoy of tanks was destroyed and vaporized into thin air with no trace, no bodies, no photos.

YES, because the president of Ukraine said so.

1. This morning Ukraine military’s spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, shocked the world when newswires reported that Ukraine forces had attacked an armed convoy from Russia, and "destroyed" a part of it. This was subsequently reiterated by the president of Ukraine himself who said that "the given information was trustworthy and confirmed because the majority of that machines had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night", and by the secretary-general of NATO, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who said that the alliance had detected an “incursion” of vehicles from Russia last night, adding that “what we have seen last night is the continuation of what we have seen for some time." Alas, as in the case above, just more verbal reports, with zero actual evidence.

http://www.zerocred.com/news/2014-08-15/did-ukraine-attack-its-own-tanks-white-house-cant-confirm-russian-convoy-was-destroy

I suggest moving this thread to conspiracy as well. LOL

Are you suggesting the President of Ukraine is into conspiracy theories Impossible Touching impossible.

[vt]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

"If the Russians want to invade Ukraine, they will have to do so in the next six weeks. The autumn rains will turn the border into a mudslide by October and disable their tanks."

George Friedman, Stratfor

[touchring]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

Ok, unless attacks on WWII phantom tanks is normal news, can we now send this thread to conspiracy or better still, paranomia, if there's one?


http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukrai...voy-1408201146

Ukraine Plays Down Significance of Destruction of Russian Military Convoy

Col. Andriy Lysenko, the Ukrainian government's security spokesman, said Saturday that Ukrainian artillery had destroyed most of a Russian column of military vehicles that entered the country earlier in the week. But he described the episode as a commonplace incident, refused to release further details and gave no indication that it marked the start of a more direct military engagement between Russia and Ukraine.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Saturday called on Moscow to respond to reportsthat tanks and troops had crossed from Russia into Ukraine. Ms. Merkel spoke on the phone with Mr. Poroshenko, and the two said arms deliveries from Russian territory to pro-Russia rebels in Ukraine should stop.

"If the Russians want to invade Ukraine, they will have to do so in the next six weeks. The autumn rains will turn the border into a mudslide by October and disable their tanks."

I'm no military person, but my common sense tells me that tanks are less effective for urban siege warfare especially in rainy and winter season.

I'm sure Putin is smart enough and patient enough to know that if he just sits back the West will screw-up on their own accord with out any help from him.

Putin doesn't need to invade, he just has to wait another 6-8 weeks.... Look at what's happening?

https://news.vice.com/article/vice-news-live-from-the-streets-of-ferguson-missouri - it's interesting to note that Ferguson is a featured topic along with Gaza, Islamic State and Ukraine.

MSM is not telling you the truth about IS. Five year-olds are taught to hate the West. Watch this video and you'll know that the Islamic state is going to be a really huge one in a couple years.

https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-full-length

[flintlock]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

Russian tanks got slaughtered in urban situations in Chechnya. A lot of this was poor employment, but yes, urban warfare is not a main strength of armor. Doubt the rain would have much effect once in the city but in the countryside it can. But Russia invading Ukraine is not the same as Germany invading Soviet Union in 1941. Distances involved and the infrastructure involved are vastly different. General Mud will not save anyone.

[sutro]

Re: Ukraine attacks column of "Armored Russian vehicles"

[QUOTE=gwynedd1;284733]Anytime anyone mixes up the Soviet Union and Russia I know they are basically ignorant.

I'll ignore the ad hominem for the moment while I point out that foriegn policy is driven by mostly by geopolitical interests. The Soviet Union and Russia occupy the same geography (plus or minus a few Republics), therefore they must pursue a similar foriegn policy, over the long run.