Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

[radon]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

I don't think so. Extremist Christians have used these and others to justify all sorts of violence much as extremist Muslims focus on specific passages of the Koran for their own purposes.

Yet, in spite of all this, it isn't the Christians who frequent the news in religiously motivated mass killings.

[Raz]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

You're going to have to clarify, because the precepts of every faith have conflicting agendas.

If we take the Koran and the Bible both to be the unquestionable blueprints for Islam and Christianity, respectively, we can find passages in either to justify whatever is desired - either peace or war.

You keep trying to say the Koran is unique in its violence towards unbelievers - and keep refusing to admit the Bible also contains such passages. Previous examples were ignored, here are yet more:

Infanticide as acceptable

Swords, those notable instruments of peace

Killing unbelievers

Black Hawk Down and Operation Iraqi Freedom, all in one

Dominion over other nations

Sure, there are passages in the Bible referring to peace, love thy neighbor, etc - but then again, there are passage in the Koran as well.

But of course, you'll then say that Jesus never said such things. The New Testament.

Matthew

More Matthew: unreceptive audiences get the S&G treatment



Do these passages mean Christianity is inherently evil?

I don't think so. Extremist Christians have used these and others to justify all sorts of violence much as extremist Muslims focus on specific passages of the Koran for their own purposes.

The passages where you've picked out the words of Christ have absolutely nothing to do with temporal matters.
They are dissertations on the Last Judgement that takes place after the End of this Age and the General Resurrection.
The "fire" referred to is Gehenna, the place chosen by the wicked through their actions as their ultimate destiny.

Please take this link where you can find a study bible so you'll be able to differentiate between passages of Sacred Scripture.
http://www.light-n-life.com/shopping...archIn=TopicId

This website also offers numerous Bible Commentaries citing explanations from the Church Fathers all the way back to the second and third century.
And not all of those offered are from an Eastern Orthodox perspective. I would never attempt to lecture you on matters of IT or software unless I had an enormous amount of knowledge of the same.

Anyone can pick out a few verses of the Koran and justify the murder of Kafirs and even other Muslims.

I give weight to the interpretations of the overwhelming majority of Imams and Jurists of the Islamic faith that have been handed down for more than
1,000 years combined with the examples of behavior of Christ while He walked this earth, contrasted with the behavior of Muhammad while he walked this earth.

And once again, NONE of the passages you cited are perpetual commands applied to all of the earth's inhabitants, but pertain to wars of destruction upon people of unimaginable wickedness fought in one place at one time. (I posted hyperlinks for numerous references during our original discussion back in August 2012.) http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...537#post236537

Neither the Israelites or the followers of Christ were commanded to convert the entire world through conquest and armed subjugation.
They were told to be witnesses to the truth of the revelation given them.You may have the last word if it makes you feel justified in accusing me of bigotry.
I see that there are other factors involved in your continueing this that have nothing to do with the truth.

Others can judge these discussions as to who is describing this subject accurately and fairly.

[vinoveri]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

just my 2 cents and not directly on point, but think it is important to realize that as a Christian, I look for the reason why Islam is on the rise and Christendom in a long term continued decline and the answer is fairly obvious to me: FAITHFULNESS. Moslems (including 2 friends of mine) appear to live their faith (and they generally have larger families which is a key to the changing demographic). Western civilization has essentially abandoned true christianity and the rise of state power and its embrace of secularism and moral relativism increasingly pressure and marginalize the living out the faith in the public square. Unfortunately, notwithstanding our motto, the US does NOT trust in God. Moslems will supplant Christians as the dominant religion/culture over the longer term simply b/c Christianity has been abandoned or watered-down to the point of sentimentality (Christ without the cross). God rewards the faithful.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

just my 2 cents and not directly on point, but think it is important to realize that as a Christian, I look for the reason why Islam is on the rise and Christendom in a long term continued decline and the answer is fairly obvious to me: FAITHFULNESS. Moslems (including 2 friends of mine) appear to live their faith (and they generally have larger families which is a key to the changing demographic). Western civilization has essentially abandoned true christianity and the rise of state power and its embrace of secularism and moral relativism increasingly pressure and marginalize the living out the faith in the public square. Unfortunately, notwithstanding our motto, the US does NOT trust in God. Moslems will supplant Christians as the dominant religion/culture over the longer term simply b/c Christianity has been abandoned or watered-down to the point of sentimentality (Christ without the cross). God rewards the faithful.

Now I have to disagree with you; IMHO the main reason for the increase in the Islamic, Muslim population, is that they are entirely ruled by fear. Once "IN", they have no way out as they simply do not have the mechanisms to bring about change from within; again driven by fear of the consequences of raising matters into the wider viewpoint. I well remember reading about Islamic students, so angered by their teachers viewpoint regarding the truth of certain aspects of their teachings, took the teacher outside the room and threw him off the building, killing him instantly.

Look just this week in Pakistan where there have been many reports of the murder of secular representatives for the coming elections. Again, look at the many instances of where ordinary Muslim people have been murdered simply for wearing the wrong clothes, or for shaving off their beards.

One a Muslim, you have no option but to remain so.

It was precisely for these reasons that I wrote my short paper, (PDF above), A philosophical Viewpoint; Unless we outside, step up to the debate, we will be over run by zealots with only one recruitment method, join or be killed.

Turning to Christianity; here it is my view that the decline is entirely to do with a wider education of people that, instead of being murdered for their views, are free to argue that there is something wrong with all forms of religion.

We are watching a repeat of the history of religion; where not so very long ago here in Europe; you could be murdered for your views just because you were of a different interpretation of Christianity.

And yes, I did understand the risk when I sat down to write my own views on the subject.

[vinoveri]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

Now I have to disagree with you; IMHO the main reason for the increase in the Islamic, Muslim population, is that they are entirely ruled by fear. Once "IN", they have no way out as they simply do not have the mechanisms to bring about change from within; again driven by fear of the consequences of raising matters into the wider viewpoint. I well remember reading about Islamic students, so angered by their teachers viewpoint regarding the truth of certain aspects of their teachings, took the teacher outside the room and threw him off the building, killing him instantly.

Look just this week in Pakistan where there have been many reports of the murder of secular representatives for the coming elections. Again, look at the many instances of where ordinary Muslim people have been murdered simply for wearing the wrong clothes, or for shaving off their beards.

One a Muslim, you have no option but to remain so.

It was precisely for these reasons that I wrote my short paper, (PDF above), A philosophical Viewpoint; Unless we outside, step up to the debate, we will be over run by zealots with only one recruitment method, join or be killed.

Turning to Christianity; here it is my view that the decline is entirely to do with a wider education of people that, instead of being murdered for their views, are free to argue that there is something wrong with all forms of religion.

We are watching a repeat of the history of religion; where not so very long ago here in Europe; you could be murdered for your views just because you were of a different interpretation of Christianity.
And yes, I did understand the risk when I sat down to write my own views on the subject.

I don't think the implication that somehow we are progressing toward a better culture can be made, for now you cannot only be murdered just prior to birth, but you can perpetrate the murder with impunity. Recall the Aztecs who sacrificed their infants too. Paganism is on the rise in the west (perhaps masking on the guise of "enlightened free thought") The irony is so glaring and obvious, most won't see it.

[c1ue]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

Neither the Israelites or the followers of Christ were commanded to convert the entire world through conquest and armed subjugation.

That's the interpretation now, but it was not the interpretation even a few centuries ago. And yes, Christianity - in all of its aspects - has been interpreted any number of times.

Mohammed may have been born roughly contemporary to Christ, but the rise of Islam and the economic/societal progression of most of its practitioners is centuries behind.

Now I have to disagree with you; IMHO the main reason for the increase in the Islamic, Muslim population, is that they are entirely ruled by fear. Once "IN", they have no way out as they simply do not have the mechanisms to bring about change from within; again driven by fear of the consequences of raising matters into the wider viewpoint. I well remember reading about Islamic students, so angered by their teachers viewpoint regarding the truth of certain aspects of their teachings, took the teacher outside the room and threw him off the building, killing him instantly.

So how would you term Turkey - which went from sultanates to a secular republic?

[Chris Coles]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

So how would you term Turkey - which went from sultanates to a secular republic?

Military strength; prepared to fight fire with fire.