Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

[doom&gloom]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

You still adhere to this left-right us-them philosophy, so let me play with you.

You worry about baby deaths, but how about all the fetus' that are aborted and have no say in the matter?
What if it were you? Certainly there are FAR MORE of them than what seems to perturb you so much.

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

Very interesting subject Shiny!

I know EJ is interested in cognitive dissonance, which has also been discussed on brain science podcast.
"Being right" is addictive, and the addicts are the "know it alls".

IN college, without knowing all this neurology, I made a conscious effort to expose myself to different ideas. Over time, I think that does broaden your thinking.

[shiny!]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

Very interesting subject Shiny!

I know EJ is interested in cognitive dissonance, which has also been discussed on brain science podcast.
"Being right" is addictive, and the addicts are the "know it alls".

IN college, without knowing all this neurology, I made a conscious effort to expose myself to different ideas. Over time, I think that does broaden your thinking.

That's very smart.

Retailers know that almost all purchases are ultimately made for emotional reasons, so advertising always appeals to emotions. This shampoo will make you sexy. This truck will put you in the "Real Man Club". Product A will make you superior to others with Product B, transform your mundane existence and make you happy.

Politics is a retail product with politicians as salesmen, not statesmen (Ron Paul excluded). Maybe it's always been this way, though. This politician is righteous, while the other guy is a godless commie. This politician is filled with compassion, while the other guy kills baby birds and wants to destroy education...

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

I think politics is getting worse. Because only the two parties can win, people feel that if they
vote their ideas, it is a wasted vote. Consequently, the vote for "lesser of two evils". But since both parties have been infiltrated by FIRE interests, and both lack courage to change entitlements, the nation never gets the leadership needed to solve problems. I would say the politicians earlier in this century were much better than now.

Besides tax paid campaign funds, we need to diminish majority take all regional elections. Only the established parties can ever get 51%. Suppose the senate was elected on a nationwide basis, with each seat representing 1% of the vote.
There would be libertarians, greens, peace party, war party, etc. The two parties would gradually lose power and real change could come about. People could vote their values instead of party loyalties. Campaigns would start being about ideas!

[Starving Steve]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

You still adhere to this left-right us-them philosophy, so let me play with you.

You worry about baby deaths, but how about all the fetus' that are aborted and have no say in the matter?
What if it were you? Certainly there are FAR MORE of them than what seems to perturb you so much.

I think a fetus of five months gestation in the womb can be born live, as a baby. I have heard of this many times. The baby is just tiny, but it does just fine outside the womb, and under the care of a hospital for an extended period of time. The baby grows-up to be a normal, full-size infant.

At four months (or less) I don't think a fetus has consciousness, and I don't think a fetus can be born live. I am no doctor; I am just a lay person and an official moron, but I have never heard of a fetus of four months (or less) in the womb being born and surviving. And I suspect that fetus would have little or no consciousness both in or out of the womb..... Maybe a doctor might better answer this question than me, and it is an important question to answer. Also, and a quite important to answer: would a four month or younger fetus, once born and possibly survive in some way, be so dwarfed as to be deformed and have other serious mental and physical problems?

Regardless of what religions might teach, I don't think suffering should ever be a part of life. No-one is being done a favour by being born into a life of hell..... I saw what was done to an old woman in hospital (Victoria General Hospital in Victoria, BC) with the tray-board of her high-chair rammed into her gut so she begged for help, 17 or 18 hours per day. That sight, really changed my belief about life, and so-called humanitarians and pro-life people. On the neurology floor ( where they stuck me ) that old woman was known as "the help lady" because she always cried and begged for mercy ( for help ) and no-one came. They kept her in the hallway, and the nurses and doctors just ignored her. The hospital used her tray-board to keep her from falling through her high-chair. [ Winter 2011 ]

[doom&gloom]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

Abuse and suffering will always happen, regardless of religion. It is an unfortunate part of the human condition. Indifference gets bred into a system that is based upon money and not compassion. The left is no more immune to this than the right.

As what appears to be a dedicated lefty, you completely ignored my post earlier about the failings of the left to protect jobs or human rights under Clinton or Obama. That is a typical response of an ideologue. I know, I used to be one just like you. Right good, left bad. It actually took the election of Obama to show me how bad the right truly was, and enable me to detest both parties equally.

You complain about the corruptness of religion, yet ignore the corruptness of the state under your own "side" of the political sphere. To one like me it looks like you have been fed the party line and swallowed it whole.

BTW, I should add I am not against abortion, and not pro- or anti-relgion, just pointing out your own inconsistencies in dealing with corruption and suffering.

[LazyBoy]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

A favorite bumper sticker slogan of mine: "Pro-Life? How many kids have you adopted?"

BTW, I'm an adoptive parent. I know what it's like to be truly grateful that someone didn't choose abortion. I wish we lived in a world where no one did.

Maybe if all the Pro-Life advocates -- the ones who are really vocal about it -- took in an orphan or a foster kid, or directly helped a family with hungry kids or that pregnant 18 year old down the street, we could get there. Shouting instructions at people isn't the same as helping them.

[lektrode]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

A favorite bumper sticker slogan of mine: "Pro-Life? How many kids have you adopted?"

BTW, I'm an adoptive parent. I know what it's like to be truly grateful that someone didn't choose abortion. I wish we lived in a world where no one did.

Maybe if all the Pro-Life advocates -- the ones who are really vocal about it -- took in an orphan or a foster kid, or directly helped a family with hungry kids or that pregnant 18 year old down the street, we could get there. Shouting instructions at people isn't the same as helping them.

+1
and one of the most profoundly intelligent/compassionate/reasonable/balanced POV's eye have ever seen on this topic (well... the tangent that mr steve launched us into - can we go back to bashin summers & slugman again ;)

signed:

R. Dubya Ilk

[lektrode]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

I think politics is getting worse. Because only the two parties can win, people feel that if they
vote their ideas, it is a wasted vote. Consequently, the vote for "lesser of two evils". But since both parties have been infiltrated by FIRE interests, and both lack courage to change entitlements, the nation never gets the leadership needed to solve problems. I would say the politicians earlier in this century were much better than now.

Besides tax paid campaign funds, we need to diminish majority take all regional elections. Only the established parties can ever get 51%. Suppose the senate was elected on a nationwide basis, with each seat representing 1% of the vote.
There would be libertarians, greens, peace party, war party, etc. The two parties would gradually lose power and real change could come about. People could vote their values instead of party loyalties. Campaigns would start being about ideas!

that could work - or how about something along the lines of how some 3rd world countries do it (dunno which ones, just am aware that some do):

anybody can run for any office (with some kind of qualifying process)
in order to win, somebody must get at least say 60% of the vote (i'm sick/tired/disgusted with a margin of 51, or even 52.3%, which basically allows the candidate with the most agitated 2% of the electorate to steal the election)

if nobody gets 60%, then a run-off comprised of the candidates that get, in total, 60% of the vote, all others out.

this would continue until there was a CLEAR/DECISIVE winner of at least 61%

it seems to me that this would eliminate having the courts decide, and we could then junk the electoral college altogether and LET A CLEAN/CLEAR MAJORITY OF THE POPULAR VOTE DECIDE THE OUTCOME

and no more squeakers, that allows the chattering class and the activist minority to claim otherwise.

at the tone, please deposit yer .02
(and sorry for getting off bashin summers and slugman - can we go back to that???)

[lektrode]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

A study was done a few years ago that showed that when people hear talk that agrees with their beliefs, a part of their brain responds the same way it does for an addict receiving his drug of choice. This is why the far right listens to conservative talk radio and gets their news from WorldNetDaily, and the far left listens to liberal talk shows and gets their news from MoveOn.org. People don't want to hear anything that contradicts their beliefs, they simply want the pleasure of having their beliefs reinforced. If they really wanted to learn something new, they would listen with an open mind to arguments from people who disagree with them, because no one side has a total lock on the truth.

and believe it or not - some of us like/prefer even, to read/watch what the opposition is thinking - as it helps broaden our perspective - even us kinda righties prefer to watch something other than fox 'entertainment'.. altho i prefer to read o`reilly, his show is perhaps the only one of theirs eye will watch, and not very often at that - altho i will admit to being a fan of the wall st journal's op/ed section, for the simple reason that they who appear there are the ones who make the news, not just talk about it and the biggie reason? if something written there isnt The Truth, the rebuttal shows up in the letters to the editor the next day or week and i'm talking about CEOs, US Senators/Reps, cabinet level people, lefties and righties all -- vs some yahoo member of the chattering class (and the letter writers arent slouchers/slackers with chips on their shoulders either and THEN there's the comments on their blogs ;)

Re: Infant mortality rates:

Different countries use different criteria for defining a live birth and calculating infant mortality. In the United States, we consider any baby that is born with a heartbeat or muscle twitch as a live birth even if it dies within moments. When the baby dies, its death adds to our "high" infant mortality rate. Part of our high infant mortality rate comes from the high number of extremely low-birth-weight premature infants that are born here, then soon die. In other countries, those babies are not counted as live births. You have to be sure you're comparing apples to apples, or else you end up believing misleading statistics.

brilliant/astute observation there, ms shiny!
in another great example of how stats can be presented to make any side's case/point.

[lektrode]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

They get no traction because of people like Starving Steve on the left, and his ilk on the right.

American Politics is like British Soccer -- fans choose teams for life, and it matters not what they do.

You see this in CONgressional polling, where people rate CONgress continually lower each year, but then say their rep is good. It is mind numbing.

We have now had NO, ZERO, NADA budget for THREE YEARS. WTF?! This is what we ELECT them to do. This is their primary job, or at least what they are paid to do.


A note to Starving Steve and his ilk on the right. All the 'good stuff' was done in the past when the vote of the people actually mattered. Now it is just the dollars from K Street that matter. To continue to blindly believe in some ideology, when the facts support otherwise, is just plain foolish. Witness:

The 'supposed' liberal Clinton gave us job killing NAFTA, and market killing CFMA & repeal of Glass-Steagall.
The 'supposed' conservative GW Bush gave us Medicare part D, zero fiscal responsibility and The Patriot Act (to strip away our Constitutional rights)
The 'supposed' liberal Obama re-upped the Patriot Act, made it worse, and gave us the NDAA and the belief any American can be killed anywhere in the world anytime he says so.

Does anyone see anything strange in thos positions?

I could go on, but really, the facts speak for themselves.

and the fact is, that the POLITICAL CLASS, on both sides of the aisle is who is screwing us.
they are the ones that enable the banksters, the military-and-welfare-and-education-industrial complex to enslave us with their debt and bankrupt us - its just that SOME of us aint afraid to call the kettle black and cast stones without inhibition of being politically correkt

but no offense intended D&G, just sayin.

sincerely
R.W. Ilk

(ps and mr steve knows i like joustin with him, methinks we both have fun with our rants ;)
its theraputic, right mr steve???

[doom&gloom]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

and the fact is, that the POLITICAL CLASS, on both sides of the aisle is who is screwing us.
they are the ones that enable the banksters, the military-and-welfare-and-education-industrial complex to enslave us with their debt and bankrupt us - its just that SOME of us aint afraid to call the kettle black and cast stones without inhibition of being politically correkt

but no offense intended D&G, just sayin.

sincerely
R.W. Ilk

(ps and mr steve knows i like joustin with him, methinks we both have fun with our rants ;)
its theraputic, right mr steve???

uh, and who enables and empowers the political class?

[lektrode]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

uh, and who enables and empowers the political class?

and your point is?

[Raz]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

A favorite bumper sticker slogan of mine: "Pro-Life? How many kids have you adopted?"

BTW, I'm an adoptive parent. I know what it's like to be truly grateful that someone didn't choose abortion. I wish we lived in a world where no one did.

Maybe if all the Pro-Life advocates -- the ones who are really vocal about it -- took in an orphan or a foster kid, or directly helped a family with hungry kids or that pregnant 18 year old down the street, we could get there. Shouting instructions at people isn't the same as helping them.

You might have a different opinion if you were the one being ripped apart with a pair of forceps or burned alive with saline. It's not "them" who are the victims.
Adoption is wonderful but it doesn't erase the fact that millions of innocent, helpless Americans (half of them female) have - and are - being mercilessly slaughtered.

If I am unable - or unwilling - to provide someone with an income that doesn't give them the right to rob a bank. Nor does my lack of charity convey upon them the right to murder an "unwanted" child.

[Raz]

Re: Summers & Krugman: Lost Decade

I think a fetus of five months gestation in the womb can be born live, as a baby. I have heard of this many times. The baby is just tiny, but it does just fine outside the womb, and under the care of a hospital for an extended period of time. The baby grows-up to be a normal, full-size infant.

At four months (or less) I don't think a fetus has consciousness, and I don't think a fetus can be born live. I am no doctor; I am just a lay person and an official moron, but I have never heard of a fetus of four months (or less) in the womb being born and surviving. And I suspect that fetus would have little or no consciousness both in or out of the womb..... Maybe a doctor might better answer this question than me, and it is an important question to answer. Also, and a quite important to answer: would a four month or younger fetus, once born and possibly survive in some way, be so dwarfed as to be deformed and have other serious mental and physical problems?

Regardless of what religions might teach, I don't think suffering should ever be a part of life. No-one is being done a favour by being born into a life of hell..... I saw what was done to an old woman in hospital (Victoria General Hospital in Victoria, BC) with the tray-board of her high-chair rammed into her gut so she begged for help, 17 or 18 hours per day. That sight, really changed my belief about life, and so-called humanitarians and pro-life people. On the neurology floor ( where they stuck me ) that old woman was known as "the help lady" because she always cried and begged for mercy ( for help ) and no-one came. They kept her in the hallway, and the nurses and doctors just ignored her. The hospital used her tray-board to keep her from falling through her high-chair. [ Winter 2011 ]

Consciousness almost certainly begins by the 22nd week because a fetus (Latin for "little one") will begin to respond to sound at that time.

Suffering is a fact of life for everyone in this fallen world and it is beyond ridiculous for anyone to think he's on moral high-ground to sanction murder as an alternative to a "life of hell" when we cannot know the future. Get a paperback copy of The Problem of Pain by C. S. Lewis. It will answer as many questions in that regard as anything I've ever read.

PS. This ends my commentary on these matters here because I don't want to hijack this thread. Anything else belongs in Rant-n-Rave.