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  • Re: Town halls turning ugly

    here's an "astroturf" update...

    My local favorite libertarian radio talkshow host brought these to my attention -- good stuff!

    http://www.editorsguild.com/LaborNew...borNewsid=1563

    Labor Plans Two Mass Mobilizations In August
    08/04/2009

    Organized labor plans two mass mobilizations in August -- and beyond -- on health care and on the Employee Free Choice Act, interviews at the AFL-CIO Executive Council show.

    Both campaigns are to counter massive business-backed advertising blitzes against both health care revision and against the labor law, which is the top priority of the federation, Change To Win and other unions.

    The campaigns were discussed at council’s 1-day meeting July 28 at the National Labor College in Silver Spring, Maryland, just outside Washington. The campaigns are needed because the Democratic-run 111th Congress -- stymied by divisions within its own majority -- put off final decisions on both issues until after it returns to D.C. on September 7. Congress was scheduled to recess July 31 but may stay through early August.

    Five congressional committees are drafting the health care legislation. In two key ones -- Senate Finance and House Energy and Commerce -- it has stalled due to Democratic divisions. The Employee Free Choice Act is delayed because key senators discussing changes in that bill are involved in the health care talks, too.

    The delays give unions time, and the need, to mobilize, the staffers added.

    The health care mobilization already started, and was going even as the council met. Unions arranged for 50,000 phone calls to be funneled to Congress on the issue on July 28. And on July 27, the Alliance of Retired Americans, the AFL-CIO’s affiliate for union and other retirees, arranged two conference calls, of 100 people each, to talk health care campaign strategy, Alliance President Barbara Easterling added.

    And the Employee Free Choice Act mobilization aims at the fact that Democrats now lack the 60 votes needed to shut off a planned GOP-led filibuster against the bill.

    “The important thing is to preserve the essential elements of the Employee Free Choice Act: Restoring the freedom to organize and collectively bargain, and not the details” of how exactly to achieve that goal, said AFL-CIO Organizing Director Stewart Acuff, who is directing the campaign.

    “That’s the measure by which any tweaking of the law” will be judged, he added.

    The council reaffirmed its strong preference for the legislation’s centerpiece:

    Majority sign-up, where once unions get verified union election authorization cards from a majority of workers at a site, they -- not the bosses -- can choose between automatic immediate recognition of the union or a National Labor Relations Board-run election.

    Other alternatives to majority sign-up, including mail-in ballots and quick NLRB-run elections, received scant discussion, staffers said. But they are not ruled out, Acuff added. “Both would be dramatically better than what we have now” under labor law, he said. Present law allows long campaigns with rampant employer intimidation and labor law-breaking. The Obama administration backs the Employee Free Choice Act.

    Senate sponsor Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, also cautions that majority sign-up is still on the table. “Nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to,” he says of the legislation.

    The Employee Free Choice Act mobilization includes tens of thousands of letters, hundreds of thousands of phone calls, the largest march in the history of Arkansas, and a coalition of 1,500 businesses supporting the bill. It’s all designed to push senators in 10 states, including Arkansas, California, Pennsylvania, Nebraska, Louisiana and Maine, to support the law and oppose the filibuster.

    Labor’s motivation and mobilization for the health care overhaul, where it is working with Obama, is complicated by competing versions of the legislation, said AFSCME President Gerald McEntee, the AFL-CIO political committee chair, and others.

    That mobilization drive also faces two more problems: Foes who simplify the issue and Finance Committee proposals to drop requiring all employers to pay for health care and to eliminate the proposed government-run competitor to health insurers.

    “We reviewed what’s happened so far and talked about our success in beating back the idea of taxing employee health benefits,” AFL-CIO Legislative Director Bill Samuel said. But if Senate Finance decides to let employers off the hook and to ax the government-run competitor, “We’ll have to see” what to do, McEntee added.

    In the meantime, his union alone is mobilizing an estimated 16,000 members to campaign for health care. It’s also running ads featuring union nurses talking about the need for health care reform for both their patients and themselves.

    “We also did something we’ve never done before: The Health Care Reform Coalition -- a number of unions -- contracted with Working America on the campaign. For $50,000, they’ll cover a state. For $60,000, they’ll send in a roving team. We’ve put in $300,000 and the AFL-CIO has put in another $100,000,” McEntee said. “The president and the Democrats are trying to legislate in a very complicated area, covering one-sixth of the economy, and it’s hard to cover that in a good sound bite.”

    AND...






    I think it's time to bury this bill and start all over...

    Let's take our time and do it right.




    Comment


    • Re: Town halls turning ugly

      the state of grass-roots confusion in the U.S.:

      Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) told The Washington Post that, at a recent town-hall meeting, a man stood up and told him to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.”

      “I had to politely explain that, ‘Actually, sir, your health care is being provided by the government, but he wasn’t having any of it.”
      Last edited by Slimprofits; August 12, 2009, 11:45 AM.

      Comment


      • Re: Town halls turning ugly

        About fifteen years ago Joseph Sobran said that "...most of the people who work for the United States government would be willing to work for any government. Had they worked for the Vichy French they would have dutifully helped the Germans round up the Jews, and had they worked for the Romans they would have politely walked in step down to the colliseum to watch the Christians be thrown to the lions".
        Awesome quote Raz. I agree with it. Many are mindless minions.

        Comment


        • Re: Town halls turning ugly

          Originally posted by babbittd View Post
          the state of grass-roots confusion in the U.S.:

          Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) told The Washington Post that, at a recent town-hall meeting, a man stood up and told him to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.”

          “I had to politely explain that, ‘Actually, sir, your health care is being provided by the government, but he wasn’t having any of it.”
          I heard about that and thought how funny it was.

          And yes, I'm seeing a large percentage of gray heads at these town halls too. Half are probably there for a good reason, the other half out of pure irrational fear. I've heard scare tactics talking about things like "euthanasia boards".:rolleyes:

          Someone else above said it best. Lets scrap this and take our time and do it right.

          Comment


          • Re: Town halls turning ugly

            Originally posted by flintlock View Post
            I heard about that and thought how funny it was.

            And yes, I'm seeing a large percentage of gray heads at these town halls too. Half are probably there for a good reason, the other half out of pure irrational fear. I've heard scare tactics talking about things like "euthanasia boards".:rolleyes:

            Someone else above said it best. Lets scrap this and take our time and do it right.
            It helps to explain the timeline

            The town halls first gained media prominence, including most importantly from Fox News and Rush when that one very vocal woman was recorded and uploaded to YouTube. "HE IS NOT A CITIZEN!!!" You know the one.

            This is what helped MSNBC to build their initial narrative that "everyone protesting health care reform is a birther."

            After the town halls suddenly gained media attention, the professional lobbyists for both sides starting showing up.

            The narrative starts to change again. We started hearing about threats to the older folks. Instead of the opposition being all about anti-socialism, it starts to be pro-medicare and the most sensitive nerve in the largest voting bloc (you folks in the AARP crowd) has been touched.

            The RNC and whatever lobbying groups are against the various Democrat party bills have done a brilliant job of shaping the debate, changing the meme and forcing the Democrats to respond. It's been really fun to watch. I think "death panels" has to be the most outlandish piece of agitprop created in my short lifetime, but it has worked!

            Comment


            • Re: Town halls turning ugly

              The whole things has been a fiasco due to the "rush job" the Democans tried to
              put on it. The Republicrats gaining the upper hand is a good thing this time
              around after the garbage passed in the "rushed" Porkulus Bill and the "rushed"
              Crap n' Tax bill. It was after the details of Crap n' Tax leaked out that people
              sat up and took notice of the bum's rush they were getting by the far left
              crowd in DC. Now, hopefully, this version of HC "reform" (which is now
              being called "insurance reform" as it flounders) will die a merciless death and
              everyone can get donw to crafting a good bill.

              I liked that one clip of the Democan voter who said "Obama took more time
              choosing his dog than you guys did on this bill" (paraphrased). Best line I
              have heard to date and so true.

              Comment


              • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                Originally posted by babbittd View Post
                It helps to explain the timeline

                The town halls first gained media prominence, including most importantly from Fox News and Rush when that one very vocal woman was recorded and uploaded to YouTube. "HE IS NOT A CITIZEN!!!" You know the one.

                This is what helped MSNBC to build their initial narrative that "everyone protesting health care reform is a birther."

                After the town halls suddenly gained media attention, the professional lobbyists for both sides starting showing up.

                The narrative starts to change again. We started hearing about threats to the older folks. Instead of the opposition being all about anti-socialism, it starts to be pro-medicare and the most sensitive nerve in the largest voting bloc (you folks in the AARP crowd) has been touched.

                The RNC and whatever lobbying groups are against the various Democrat party bills have done a brilliant job of shaping the debate, changing the meme and forcing the Democrats to respond. It's been really fun to watch. I think "death panels" has to be the most outlandish piece of agitprop created in my short lifetime, but it has worked!
                Apropos - I saw this linked on Patrick.net:

                http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/141833


                Right-Wing Turncoat Gives the Inside Scoop on Why Conservatives Are Rampaging Town Halls

                by Francis Schaeffer

                The Republican Old Guard are in the fix an atheist would be in if Jesus showed up and raised his mother from the dead: Their world view has just been shattered. Obama's election has driven them over the edge. Consider Former Congressman Dick Armey. Several far right foundations and the multitrillion dollar health-insurance industry have teamed up with him to organize the far right foot soldiers of the Republican Party to intimidate people speaking on behalf of health-care reform. They are using my old shock troops -- given many of these folks were first energized by the Evangelical pro-life movement that my late father and I started in the 1970s. What we did to clinics they are now doing to congressmen and others speaking out for health care reform.


                . . .


                Conclusion: the Fascist Formula

                Here's the emerging American version of the fascist's formula: combine millions of dollars of lobbyists' money with embittered troublemakers who have a small army of not terribly bright white angry people (collected over decades through pro-life mass mailing networks) at their beck and call, ever ready to believe any myth or lie circulated by the semi literate and completely and routinely misinformed right wing -- Evangelical religious underground. Then put his little mob together with the insurance companies' big bucks. That's how it works -- American Brown Shirts at the ready.

                What's the results of the fascist formula for the rest of us? Well, think how this "method" worked against Dr. Tiller's abortion clinic and how that story ended. In this case a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to save our economy from going bankrupt because of spiraling health care costs may be lost, not because of a better argument, but because of lies backed up by anti-democratic embittered thuggery. The motive? Revenge on America by the Old White Guys of the far right, and greed by the insurance industry.

                What Can Be Done?

                It's time that this whole shabby (and insane) business be exposed, vilified in run out of town on a rail by whatever responsible Republicans -- if any -- that are still in the party and who want to see the fortunes of their party revived. Republican leaders taking insurance industry money via lobbying firms and using it to organize what amounts to roving bands of thugs not only need to be exposed but thrown out of the public debate forever. They should become absolute pariahs.

                It's time to give this garbage a name: insurance industry funded fascism.

                Comment


                • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                  Originally posted by sadsack View Post
                  Apropos - I saw this linked on Patrick.net:

                  http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/141833
                  Call the other guys fascists? Check.
                  Mention business interests involved only on the other side? Check.
                  Compare the opposition to supporters for a heinous act? Check.

                  I think I've seen this playbook before. It's used by every unintellectual author making any sort of argument for anything.


                  I like the way babbittd described the play so far. I think we're in Act II, while Act III will play out after the upcoming "counter-demonstrations" and finally Act IV will end the tragic play with lots of murder and/or suicide, just like Shakespeare.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                    :p

                    People here take sides too. I find that funny.

                    The DC crowd is really all ONE side, and it is NOT your side.

                    babbittd thinks this is all some "republicrat plot" while the Democans
                    line up to keep drug prices high. Go figure.

                    Dood -- when DC "rushes" anything YOU get the shaft! Parties don't matter.
                    Get a clue. Once they hit DC YOUR vote means nothing. All that matter are
                    dollars. Stop thinking about Republicrats V. Democans and start thinking
                    them against us. You'll be much better for it in the end.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                      Originally posted by sadsack View Post
                      Apropos - I saw this linked on Patrick.net:

                      http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/141833
                      I know Frankie Schaeffer very well. He suffered from polio as a child and had to live in the shadow of his father who was a brilliant theologian. In addittion to a failed career as a B Movie director, all of this has caused an undercurrent of steaming anger throughout Frankie's life.

                      He used to be a reasoned apologist for truth, but over the past five years or so he has become a near lunatic.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                        Originally posted by Raz View Post
                        I know Frankie Schaeffer very well. He suffered from polio as a child and had to live in the shadow of his father who was a brilliant theologian. In addittion to a failed career as a B Movie director, all of this has caused an undercurrent of steaming anger throughout Frankie's life.

                        He used to be a reasoned apologist for truth, but over the past five years or so he has become a near lunatic.
                        Readers should consider that having a father who was a brilliant theologian might make any sane person "crazy" in one respect or another because there may be no gods, and if such were to be the case, then a "briliiant theologian" is an oxymoron, and a son who ultimately rejected such a father's "brainwashing" probably from birth might not in fact be a lunatic.

                        Raz, what you appear to be doing here is judging Schaeffer based on your knowing him VERY well. How well can we actually know anyone when most of us lack ability to KNOW what anyone else is thinking or why, and when even if the "tell" us what they are thinking, how do we know they aren't lying?

                        You have engaged in an ad hominem attack while putting nothing forward to discount or refute what Schaeffer wrote. I took his comments as possibly coming somewhere close to being truth.

                        I consider your comments to discredit Schaeffer as a failure.
                        Jim 69 y/o

                        "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                        Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                        Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                          Actually I find this guy Frank Schaeffer interesting. Here is one link to more about him in which he notes: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...ous-right.aspx

                          "[Our family was] famous but famous in a subculture. Unless you had been involved in a certain small slice of American culture, you probably never heard of me or my dad," he said.

                          "That's the way real history happens as opposed to the way one would imagine it happening," said Mr. Schaeffer, the prodigal son of the clan, who documented his family's strange odyssey in Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back.

                          As the book's title implies, something else happened: a reaction to the movement he helped build that is filled with such regret and self-loathing that 20 years later, he still feels the need to shout mea culpa whenever he gets the chance.
                          Jim 69 y/o

                          "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                          Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                          Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                            Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
                            Readers should consider that having a father who was a brilliant theologian might make any sane person "crazy" in one respect or another because there may be no gods, and if such were to be the case, then a "briliiant theologian" is an oxymoron, and a son who ultimately rejected such a father's "brainwashing" probably from birth might not in fact be a lunatic.

                            Raz, what you appear to be doing here is judging Schaeffer based on your knowing him VERY well. How well can we actually know anyone when most of us lack ability to KNOW what anyone else is thinking or why, and when even if the "tell" us what they are thinking, how do we know they aren't lying?

                            You have engaged in an ad hominem attack while putting nothing forward to discount or refute what Schaeffer wrote. I took his comments as possibly coming somewhere close to being truth.

                            I consider your comments to discredit Schaeffer as a failure.
                            I should not have referred to Frankie as "a near lunatic". That wasn't fair.

                            I should have described him as I knew him to be back in the mid-1990s: an overbearing, disingenuous loudmouth.
                            I saw him being interviewed by Rachel Maddow, and while the first five or six minutes weren't bad, the last two minutes were almost total demagogic lies.

                            In 1993 I wrote a letter to The Christian Activist complaining about a slanderous article they published by a Russian priest. (Frankie was the editor.) He published my letter, editing out EVERYTHING critical, and making it appear to be not only supportive, but deeply grateful on my part for printing the ignorant diatribe of this Russian priest against Western Christians !!! I wrote him again complaining about what he'd done but never received a reply. His conduct toward me was nothing less than despicable, so I hope you'll forgive me for my attitude towards Frankie Schaeffer.

                            No one needs to "discredit" Frankie. He's done an excellent job of discrediting himself. He has betrayed not only the pro-life movement, but the unwavering teaching of the Orthodox Church since its beginnings in A.D.33. http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articl...-Schaeffer.php

                            Your first paragraph attempts to defame Dr. Francis Schaeffer by implying that Frankie has abandonded theism in general and the Christian faith in particular, and insulting all theologians. You seem to have a real mean streak, Jim, when it comes to anyone who believes in God.

                            Not to be overly contentious here Jim, but aren't you judging me? How did you know what was on my mind or in my heart?

                            By the way, I actually agree with some of what Frankie said, especially about the insurance industry. But his support of a man who not only promotes procured abortion, but infanticide as well, is a scandal to all Orthodox Christians.

                            Feel free to consider my words concerning Frankie Schaeffer any way you choose. I could care less.
                            Last edited by Raz; August 13, 2009, 11:01 PM. Reason: spelling

                            Comment


                            • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                              according to the LA Times, one House Panel is removing the so-called "death panels" provision from their version of the bill:

                              http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,4670272.story

                              even as it says in the article that: "In reality, the provision was designed to allow Medicare to pay doctors who counsel patients about planning for end-of-life decisions. The consultations would be voluntary and would provide information about living wills, healthcare proxies, pain medication and hospice."

                              More confirmation that the Republicans have won the information war.

                              Even better is that as Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin issued this proclamation in April of 2008:

                              http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:_qjXL_3J08EJ:www.eeo.state.ak.us/archive-50122.html+"HEALTHCARE+DECISIONS+DAY"+palin&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
                              WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions. WHEREAS, in Alaska, Alaska Statute 13.52 provides the specifics of the advance directives law and offers a model form for patient use.

                              WHEREAS, it is estimated that only about 20 percent of people in Alaska have executed an advance directive. Moreover, it is estimated that less than 50 percent of severely or terminally ill patients have an advance directive.

                              cont.

                              For anyone that didn't think Palin was totally full of shit, there you go.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Town halls turning ugly

                                Glenn Beck on CNN 18 months ago - tearing the "American Health care system" to shreds and there is more of this video from after his full-time return to the air floating around.

                                An FYI for anyone that didn't think he was a paid actor.

                                I have a hard time believing that most of the on-air personalities, including on the radio aren't just paid actors that don't believe most of what the political stuff that they say. They say what pays the bills and more.

                                Comment

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