Town halls turning ugly

[flintlock]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

My original post was merely to bring to attention the anger going on in general at congress. Not to pick sides with special interest groups. Personally I'm a fan of the good old "tar and feathering" of days gone by.

Unfortunately, the most organized are the special groups like abortion( both sides), birthers, truthers, space aliens, etc. When mainstream Americans try to organized they get called names and lumped in with the nuts. :rolleyes:

So stop hijacking this thread and lumping everyone in with the kooks please.

Imagine, Americans having the nerve to, "gasp", protest taxes. Where did they get that idea? Somebody better shut down that crazy way of thinking before things get out of hand.

[mesyn191]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

If any protest is organized in any way by an outside agency, it is AstroTurf and not a genuine grass roots movement?

Its more of a who is doing the organizing and under what circumstances. Did you read the paper? Can you not see how they're trying to present a certain image to the speaker/congressmen/media instead of being serious about representing their views? To put it as the paper does, "pack the hall"? Did you go to the link cited at the end of the paper and read up about that site and the man who runs it?

"MacGuffie is a volunteer for FreedomWorks, the industry funded group that helps organize and support the tea party protests. But he denies that his small group has any direct affiliation with FreedomWorks. "We are recommending with that memo that other grassroots groups that share our view should go to the townhalls of their members and use the strategy that we did," MacGuffie told me, confirming the memo's authenticity. "We are trying to get into that town halls to make them understand that they do not have the unanimous support from people in their communities."

If a ACORN party member was going around doing this sort of thing with this buddies what would you say then?

People are angry.

But what if they're angry for the wrong reasons due to misinformation and/or manipulation of facts? Being angry isn't enough, you have to be right too. Hell, the paper clearly states that these "protesters" aren't even using their own questions, they're being handed out to them before they get to the town hall to shout out randomly.

Have the debate.

Debate is good, these people aren't doing that though. They're "packing town halls" to shout slogans and questions that get handed out to them prior to going in, they aren't interested in presenting views only making the congressmen/rep look "dazed and confused" on camera. Its theater. Its disgusting.

Make them explain their position and defend it.

They usually just shout down and boo the rep when he/she actually tries to do this...

Or do you think only ACORN has the right to protest and make themselves heard?

No, and I don't like them either.

For the record I don't view myself as Rep, Dem, or a Libertarian. While all of these parties have some views that I agree with IMO they are all being run by incompetents and/or corrupt stooges right now (have been for a while really) who espouse certain views but don't really appear to believe any of it. Yes, that is a very pessmisitic view point, but given how things are going it doesn't seem to me to be wholly unreasonable to have.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Just because they're protesting against something that you happen to agree with them on, doesn't mean that most of them would be there if the shoe was on the other foot.

There was no wave of protests over Medicare Part D, the No Child Left Alone Act or the exploding deficits during the Bush/Republican Congress years.

So far after Bush, there has been but one small protest against the war in Afghanistan that paled in size compared to past years when the focus was Iraq and a Republican President.

I think you guys are being a little nieve here...

And do you really think the Republicans in the House are pushing the birther stuff because a few fringe nut supporters forced it on them? Maybe I associate with the wrong people, but regular republicans (successful, normal people with families and jobs) have been warning me about the 'Manchurian Candidate' since early in 2008 at least.

[mesyn191]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

apologize to all who are offended

I'm not really offended, just shocked how people can be taken in by this sort of thing so easily and not see what these people are like.

[metalman]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

I'm not really offended, just shocked how people can be taken in by this sort of thing so easily and not see what these people are like.

this post and this thread are invaluable for this reason... how many itulipers learned from this? many, i hope.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

... and not see what these people are like.

Yeah - as one of the group you'd likely call "these people" down here in the Bible Belt, you'd dang well better watch out for us. We're Evil! .

Even the cows down here have a mean kick and are full of you know what .

[doom&gloom]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Most of the recent town hall stuff is astroturf. No really:





If they don't get enough people on hand to do that they bus more nutjobs in to harass whoever is speaking. This is even worse than those BS "Tea parties" we saw a little while back.


If it was for the right reasons maybe I could get behind it too, but most of these people are nutjob birthers, FEMA camp/NWO "activists", and straight up racists. Case in point...


My that is a lovely video you've got there...

I am personally PROUD of the guy who is doing this organization. For years the left has run this kind of schtick on the right, with "mobs" like ACORN doing the heavy lifting for them -- even bussing in protestors. Now the right adapts the same tactics and -- WHOA! -- you not supposed to do that!

BULLSHIT.

The Obama Administration makes the kleptocracy and fiscal malfeasance of the Bush administration look like a trial run play in kindergarten. Where is the left NOW when $2 TRILLION deficits are accepted while they whined incessantly at the Bush deficits? Where is the left NOW on the war when they WHINED incessantly about it during the Bush years? Where is the left NO when bills get passed without a reading before the vote, yet they WHINED about it when the Patriot Act went thru?

I'll tell ya where they are -- nowhere. Staring in rapture at their dashboard Obama's trying to figure out how to kipe a 'clunkers' deal.

Team O is a meance to this country, and I am not saying it from a partisan view but that of a fiscal conservative. They have lost ALL SEMBLANCE of fiscal discipline and good governance. Obama himself is on tape bitchin' 'bout the way the Republicrats pushed thru legislation too fast, but now it's his show and no one should question the Democans?

BULLSHIT.

Slighly over half the voting population voted for Obama. There was no major mandate here. And I would bet given a re-run today the Big O would lose by a landslide even to that lackluster dunderhead McSame.

Nah, I hope these town hall meetings get even UGLIER. It's time the Pigs from the Animal Farm in DC get a clue that some pigs are NOT more equal than others.

[metalman]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

uh oh. political abyss?

[doom&gloom]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

MLK is right -- so we got Obama...

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

uh oh. political abyss?

This thread was there a while back. I was just being too wimpy to call it straight.

Good post, doom&gloom. Thanks.

[mesyn191]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Do you know what ACORN does?

What part of "I don't like them" didn't you understand?

Do 2 wrongs make a right?

Maybe if you opened your mind you could hear the otherside of the debate.

Again, there is no debate, only angry shouting and rhetoric. Its like watching Jerry Springer.

But do not be so nieve as to think both sides are not doing the exact same thing.

Just whose posts are you reading anyways? I'm not saying anything like this at all, and if you think I am that is your perception and not my intention.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

We're headed toward another world war and these fascists will lead the way. They don't yet feel free to set up camps but it's no more than an election or two away if we ignore the threat. Wait until oil is $300 a barrel, the idiots in this video will go Hitler youth on us all.

Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity - MLK.

Absolutely right! This is dangerous stuff. This isn't a discussion of ideas, this isn't peaceful demonstration, this is an unthinking mob controlled by people who do not have the best interests of our county in mind, shouting down open discussion.

We are well into the age of "unreason".

Maybe FRED needs to create a new forum, something like, significant political developments. It seems that the success of iTulip's forecasts is it's ability to anticipate a political response to economic conditions. There could be many black swan political events that might alter or support a given forecast. EJ has expressed his concern about the direction that our politics might take, well maybe now is the time to start pointing out the political changes that might lead to government responses with large economic impacts.

[mesyn191]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Now the right adapts the same tactics and -- WHOA! -- you not supposed to do that!

Even so, do 2 wrongs make a right?

snip Obama/Dem rant

Thats nice and all but what has that got to do with what I'm talking about?

There was no major mandate here.

Majority rules is what we've got, for better or for worse, you know it doesn't have to be "major".

And I would bet given a re-run today the Big O would lose by a landslide even to that lackluster dunderhead McSame.

Things aren't nearly bad enough for that to happen yet, give it time though. Personally as bad as Obama is I'd rather have him than Palin/McCain, I'd say we got the best of the worst out of that deal, you should be happy right?

Nah, I hope these town hall meetings get even UGLIER. It's time the Pigs from the Animal Farm in DC get a clue that some pigs are NOT more equal than others.

Unfortunately yelling at them (or even throwing things at them, heck even beating them to within an inch of their lives...) won't accomplish anything, you're assuming they don't already know what they're doing is wrong and/or that they actually care. We're going to have to vote them out and replace them with people who just want to do the job the right way and not from a ideological viewpoint. I don't see that happening any time soon. Certainly not with this Jerry Springer approach to political discourse.

[Munger]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Do you know what ACORN does?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t-gIafJt0s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLOJFD6Wtnk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3BJsYJA0Os

Did you watch the video I posted. Did you see what the voter concerns were. Did you listen to the vets. Or the housewives.

What misinformation. Maybe if you opened your mind you could hear the otherside of the debate.

The people in the video are going to their representatives for answers to the questions out there. The representatives are dumbfounded that people are actually asking questions. They have no answer. The people should vote them out if they do not get the answers they agree with based upon local morals and needs. This is what America is about.

So as a proud american and a registered democrat I am happy that there is a debate. Be as cynical as you want. I believe in debate and the expressing of views as well as the need to listen to other peoples views. If it is organized so be it. If the people do not respond there will be no movement. But do not be so nieve as to think both sides are not doing the exact same thing.

There is a difference between asking tough questions and trying to disrupt the meeting by interrupting the speaker and appearing unruly. I suppose they could go the W. route and only allow party loyalists into the town halls. Yay democracy.

[flintlock]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

There is a difference between asking tough questions and trying to disrupt the meeting by interrupting the speaker and appearing unruly. I suppose they could go the W. route and only allow party loyalists into the town halls. Yay democracy.

Agree.

One thing I have noticed in American politics lately. There seems to be the idea that if someone is arguing a point you don't agree with, that they should be shut up. As if there is a fear that merely vocalizing a thought somehow magically makes it valid. If people are idiots so what? What is to fear by letting them open their mouths and show the world what idiots they are?

I hate the shouters too, but sometimes that's what it takes be heard.