DEpressed

[FrankL]

Re: DEpressed

delete - double post

[astonas]

Re: DEpressed

Nihilism seems like the only rational choice at this point. And believing what you think about people's pre-disposition to latch onto any fool's cause is all the more reason to be nihilistic. People just lie to themselves to find sense and meaning where there is none.

Nihilism is certainly a choice for those who know where their next meal is coming from. But to say that it is the only rational choice is a bit strong.

For those who have free and informed choice, there exists a wide spectrum of belief structures, any one of which may serve better for a given individual. The fact that some people are driven to choose their belief system for poor reasons neither increases nor decreases its underlying validity. That fact reflects more on the individual than it does the belief system itself.

[BadJuju]

Re: DEpressed

You can be nihilistic if you are starving. In fact, it seems like the most apt time to become nihilistic is when you realize the universe doesn't give a damn about you and couldn't care less if you died horrifically. Nihilism is just recognizing that there is no inherent meaning or value to anything. It is all meaningless except what we give meaning to. And the meaning we give to things is usually a lie to shield us from the truth of existence.

[astonas]

Re: DEpressed

You can be nihilistic if you are starving.

I'm curious, how many people do you know who have at one point been on the edge of starvation? Ask one of them if nihilism is an option in that circumstance. Belief may or may not be justified rationally, but a will to live is at that moment crucial for survival. Whatever gives that to you is not optional, it is necessary. A true nihilist does not starve for long, but dies quickly.

In fact, it seems like the most apt time to become nihilistic is when you realize the universe doesn't give a damn about you and couldn't care less if you died horrifically. Nihilism is just recognizing that there is no inherent meaning or value to anything. It is all meaningless except what we give meaning to. And the meaning we give to things is usually a lie to shield us from the truth of existence.

It is the boldface text above that separates your stance from strict nihilism.

You are, however describing a path that can indeed take a person to nihilism. And taking that path is a choice. But be aware that following that path while remaining alive is a luxury of the country we are in, and the wealth in which we find ourselves. There are times and places where it is a terminal path.

Frankly, I'm surprised that I am the one taking up this topic with you. For my part, I'm pretty sure no religious person will ever classify me as a "believer". Quite the opposite, I am one in whom a once-deep belief has entirely died. But I also acknowledge that belief structures serve an important role, to such an extent that if one does not follow an externally-supplied belief structure, one must sooner or later construct one's own, or wither.

That may consist of a personal religion, or an anti-religion. It may be moral, or amoral; ethical or unethical. It might be existentialist, or absurdist. It might even be a personal reason-based construct rooted in strictly empirical logical positivism (which you appear to be approaching, though you seem to want to call this nihilism). But without a framework within which to exist, one ultimately cannot.

In spite of everything going on in the present, and predicted for the future, there is one choice I can heartily recommend to almost everyone. The worst possible outcome for the future is still vastly better than what many prior generations have endured.

Given the choice (and it is always a choice) I'd choose to live.