Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

[touchring]

Even though I don't rule out that the rebels are behind the crime since all "evidence" had been collected by the Ukrainan government and presented within "a few hours after the incident", but the events leading to the incident and what happened immediately after can't make one wonder if this whole incident was planned and orchestrated.

1. Kiev deployed surface to air missile system near to the city of Dotnsek. What are these missiles for when there's rebels had no aircraft?

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...e-systems.html

2. "Recordings of rebels telephone calls" appeared on social media hours after the plane was struck. In all military operations, these recordings would be sent to the HQ for investigation but this didn't happen. In all likelihood, these recordings appeared to have been pre-recorded as part of the orchestrated operation.

3. Why did MH17 deviated from the usual flight path that was south of East Ukraine?

Warning: Graphic.

[don]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

So what about the Russian side? Below we present the key arguments made by Russia to suggest that not it, but Ukraine, was responsible for taking down the Malaysian Boeing.



As reported earlier by RIA, the Russian Defense Ministry says it had intercepted the activity of a Ukrainian radar system on the day the Malaysian plane went down in eastern Ukraine, the ministry’s press service said Friday.

"Throughout the day on July 17, Russian means of radar surveillance intercepted the operation of the Buk-M1 battery’s Kupol radar station located in the region of the populated area of Styla [30 kilometers south of Donetsk]," the press service said in a statement.

“The technical capabilities of the Buk-M1 allow the exchange of data on air targets between batteries of one battalion. Thus, the launch of rockets could have also occurred from any of the batteries deployed in the populated area of Avdeevka [8 kilometers north of Donetsk] or from Gruzsko-Zoryanskoe [25 kilometers east of Donetsk],” the ministry said.

Then we go to Itar-Tass which reported that civil flights in the air space of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions cannot be performed as the relevant communications infrastructure was destroyed there, a source from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) told ITAR-TASS on Thursday.

“Kiev operates all air traffic control services and it is unclear how this plane (the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 that crashed in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border Thursday night. — ITAR-TASS) could appear in the area,” he said.

“During the combat actions in Donetsk’s airport the communication tower, a part of the united air control service was blown up,” he said adding that “planes cannot fly there.”

On July 8, Ukraine’s State Aviation Service banned all flights over the Donetsk and Luhansk regions aiming to provide “adequate safety and security for all flights of civil aircraft in favor of state aviation.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council took a decision to close the airspace over the area of the so-called anti-terror operation to commercial flights three days ago, Rosaviatsia reported.

This goes back to our post from last night in which we wondered just why and how did it happen that flight MH-17 diverted from its usual trajectory to fly over what was effectively restricted airspace. This also is the topic of a follow up piece by Bloomberg released overnight in which it was noted that "Malaysian Air Flight Took Route Avoided by Qantas, Asiana:"

Qantas hasn’t used the route for a few months, said Andrew McGinnes, a spokesman for the Australian carrier, while Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific said it has been detouring for “quite some time.” Korean Air Lines Co. and Asiana Airlines Inc. said in statements they have been avoiding the area since March 3.

One hopes that all lingering questions about the flight path, and where the instructions to change it came from, will be answered when the contents of the flight black box are released.

And finally, as RT reported, the national governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, admitted that while the separatists indeed are in possession of one BUK missile unit, it is not operational, and even if it was, it would be unable to reach a height of over 30,000 feet without central radar guidance which the Donetsk region does not have, once again suggesting that a Surface to Air Missile, if indeed one was used, came from the Ukraine side. Surely it will be very easy for international monitors to validate this report.



Earlier, when we commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"

The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.

It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as theBBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.


In brief the plot thickens, and all that matters now is whose propaganda, read media outlets, will be more persuasive although in reality even that is moot: in the echo chambers of ideology, most people already have their mind made up as to "who" the shooter was.

[don]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

Downing of the civilian airliner was either 1) a mistake, or 2) intentional.

If the former, it's being propagandized to the advantage of one side and covered up by the other, i.e. Kiev and the 'rebels', respectively.

If the latter, than with all the expected and ongoing propaganda from all sides, ciu bono applies.

As to who benefits from the latter? Not too difficult to solve - see the former.

[touchring]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

Downing of the civilian airliner was either 1) a mistake, or 2) intentional.

If the former, it's being propagandized to the advantage of one side and covered up by the other, i.e. Kiev and the 'rebels', respectively.

If the latter, than with all the expected and ongoing propaganda from all sides, ciu bono applies.

As to who benefits from the latter? Not too difficult to solve - see the former.

Intentional or not, everything points towards a staged incident or a setup.

[sutro]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

Downing of the civilian airliner was either 1) a mistake, or 2) intentional.

If the former, it's being propagandized to the advantage of one side and covered up by the other, i.e. Kiev and the 'rebels', respectively.

If the latter, than with all the expected and ongoing propaganda from all sides, ciu bono applies.

As to who benefits from the latter? Not too difficult to solve - see the former.

If the rebels control the crash site and they did not shoot down the plane, then why would they not secure the crash site for an indepenedent investigation?

[don]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

If the rebels control the crash site and they did not shoot down the plane, then why would they not secure the crash site for an indepenedent investigation?

How do the rebels gain from intentionally shooting down the airliner? (The rest I can get on the MSM propaganda board)

[sutro]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

It looks like they were gunning for a military transport and hit a passanger plane by mistake.

[vt]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

The Rebels bragged about shooting down a plane Thursday, but when they realized they shot MH 17 down they deleted the messages. Fortunately they were captured in screen shots.

Now the Russians have tried to plant a false story of Ukraine jets shooting the plane down air to air, thinking it was Putin's plane, which was in the vicinity minutes earlier. U.S. intelligence documented that the missile was surface to air.

Plus as said above, the rebels are trying to destroy evidence.

Clearly a tragic mistake in a war zone where a civilian plane should not have been. But the Russians are trying to trying different ways to blame Kiev.

We saw this with Russia years ago with the shoot down of the Korean 747 in 1983. The U.S. also shot down an Iranian passenger jet in 1988.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...d23_story.html

[don]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

The key question remains, of course, cui bono? Only the terminally brain dead believe shooting a passenger jet benefits the federalists in Eastern Ukraine, not to mention the Kremlin.

As for Kiev, they'd have the means, the motive and the window of opportunity to pull it off - especially after Kiev's militias have been effectively routed, and were in retreat, in the Donbass; and this after Kiev remained dead set on attacking and bombing the population of Eastern Ukraine even from above. No wonder the federalists had to defend themselves.

And then there's the suspicious timing. The MH17 tragedy happened two days after the BRICS announced an antidote to the IMF and the World Bank, bypassing the US dollar. And just as Israel "cautiously" advances its new invasion/slow motion ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Malaysia, by the way, is the seat of the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission, which has found Israel guilty of crimes against humanity.

Washington, of course, does profit. What it gets in this case is a ceasefire (so the disorganized, battered Kiev militias may be resupplied); the branding of Eastern Ukrainians as de facto "terrorists" (as Kiev, Dick Cheney-style, always wanted); and unlimited mud thrown over Russia and Putin in particular until Kingdom Come. Not bad for a few minutes' work. As for NATO, that's Christmas in July.

From now on, it all depends on Russian intelligence. They have been surveying/tracking everything that happens in Ukraine 24/7. In the next 72 hours, after poring over a lot of tracking data, using telemetry, radar and satellite tracking, they will know which type of missile was launched, where from, and even produce communications from the battery that launched it. And they will have access to forensic evidence.

Unlike Washington - who already knows everything, with no evidence whatsoever (remember 9/11?) - Moscow will take its time to know the basic journalistic facts of what, where, and who, and engage on proving the truth and/or disproving Washington's spin.

The historical record shows Washington simply won't release data if it points to a missile coming from its Kiev vassals. The data may even point to a bomb planted on MH17, or mechanical failure - although that's unlikely. If this was a terrible mistake by the Novorossiya rebels, Moscow will have to reluctantly admit it. If Kiev did it, the revelation will be instantaneous. Anyway we already know the hysterical Western response, no matter what; Russia is to blame.

Putin is more than correct when he stressed this tragedy would not have happened if Poroshenko had agreed to extend a cease-fire, as Merkel, Hollande and Putin tried to convince him in late June. At a minimum, Kiev is already guilty because they are responsible for safe passage of flights in the airspace they - theoretically - control.

But all that is already forgotten in the fog of war, tragedy and hype.

Pepe Escobar

[vt]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

Escobar attempts to participate in the Russian cover up of the accidental shooting down by separatists of a commercial aircraft.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...craft/?hpid=z1

MH 17 was never intentional. It was a tragic error by an airline of allowing a flight over an active war zone where planes were regularly being shot down.
The rebels did not know it was civilian.

However the cover up of the mistake, the various fabricated Russian stories, the refusal to allow independent international groups in to investigate, the contamination of the crash site evidence, the looting of the bodies and wreckage, and the blatant Russian move to shift blame to the Ukraine; all point to the truth that the separatist making a terrible error.

This article points to the smoking gun:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/18/smoking-guns-russian-separatists-shot-down-malaysian-plane/


Here are the rebel commanders posts before they were deleted:

https://vk.com/strelkov_info

[don]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

Escobar attempts to participate in the Russian cover up of the accidental shooting down by separatists of a commercial aircraft.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...craft/?hpid=z1

MH 17 was never intentional. It was a tragic error by an airline of allowing a flight over an active war zone where planes were regularly being shot down.
The rebels did not know it was civilian.

However the cover up of the mistake, the various fabricated Russian stories, the refusal to allow independent international groups in to investigate, the contamination of the crash site evidence, the looting of the bodies and wreckage, and the blatant Russian move to shift blame to the Ukraine; all point to the truth that the separatist making a terrible error.

This article points to the smoking gun:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/18/smoking-guns-russian-separatists-shot-down-malaysian-plane/


Here are the rebel commanders posts before they were deleted:

https://vk.com/strelkov_info

I see you're seeing the bigger picture . . . .

[touchring]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

One thing I learned from mh370 is to not bother about what information and evidence that governments and intelligent agencies release after a disaster. It's all fabricated BS.

I just use common sense. Who benefits the most?

Who has the radar - obviously the rebels don't. They can't even coordinate a rescue operation let alone bring down an airliner flying 33,000 ft up in the sky.

Whose air controllers diverted the planes into rebel territories?

[vt]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

There is credible evidence that Russians were manning the missile batteries. The rebels bragged on social media (deleted soon after) that they had shot down a plane at the time of the tragedy.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-i...ash-1405816389

MH 17 was the 3rd plane the Separatists shot down that week. The first two were Ukraine military transports. This proves they had the capability to shoot down a plane.

There is overwhelming evidence that the Separatists (with Russian help) made a tragic mistake.

It's always suspect when someone tries to cover up the facts:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ight-MH17.html

[touchring]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

Recordings can be fabricated - this is very easy, any teenager with an iPhone can do that. Of course I'm not saying that they are definitely fabricated.

The military transports were shot down at much lower altitudes and much lower than what commercial airlines fly, and besides, no commercial plane will fly directly over a war zone unless "tricked".

One of the first thing that I learned from MH370 is to disregard the MSM completely, but to use my common sense. Many claims were made for MH370 - that the plane flew over south china sea, that wreckage of the plane were sighted here and there, but we now know that 90% of reports on MSM were false.

I've only got 2 questions:

1). Why did MH17 deviate from the usual path that airliners use and fly into the war zone? As seen on the diagram below, the flight path on the 17th July deviated from the previous flight path.




2). It has been 4 days - where's the voice recording between Ukrainian air controllers and MH17? This most important piece of evidence has been concealed by the government.


Again I must say that I've no proof nor do I know who is responsible, but all this smells very fishy to me and looks like a setup.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...N-BIRRELL.html

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While residents have been able to leave flowers, staff of Europe's OSCE claim they were blocked from the site

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Distraught: One woman puts her hand up to her face as she looks at the wreckage site

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Members of the Ukrainian Emergency Ministry worked late into the night retrieving bodies in body bags






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Retrieve: Ukrainian rescuers have been working at the scene to remove the victims, in body bags, from the site




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Standoff: World leaders have demanded that the rebels around Donetsk allow proper access to the site

There is credible evidence that Russians were manning the missile batteries. The rebels bragged on social media (deleted soon after) that they had shot down a plane at the time of the tragedy.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-i...ash-1405816389

MH 17 was the 3rd plane the Separatists shot down that week. The first two were Ukraine military transports. This proves they had the capability to shoot down a plane.

There is overwhelming evidence that the Separatists (with Russian help) made a tragic mistake.

It's always suspect when someone tries to cover up the facts:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ight-MH17.html

[don]

Re: Did the allies bring down Malaysian Airline MH17?

the BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."


the salient point remains - who benefits? The rest is noise . . . .