Vaccines the answer to population control?

[vjakopin]

Re: Vaccines the answer to population control?

Yes, please define 'things happen very rarely' and 'the amount of misery they prevent', so we can move some numbers around.

But before that, let's find some gray area where we can at least state each others arguments. I am not in 'anti-' or 'pro-vaccination' bussiness here. I am pointing out several problems that are usually not adressed. Some historical facts that tell you that infectious diseases declined by 90% before immunization started and that outbreaks do not correlate with popolation being immunized. Let us discuss those first. Do you find this 90% decline before immunization interesting? I find it fascinating!

After that maybe we can consider some laging effects of our engeneered actions that might not yet be as apparent or confirmed now, and after maybe we can debate some of your arguments why we should vaccinate. Oh this will be fun!

And after all that, in the end maybe we can start formulating a well informed opinion about final decision of being 'anti-' or 'pro-'.

[seanm123]

Re: Vaccines the answer to population control?

Penn and Teller said it best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZT...yer_detailpage

[aaron]

Re: Vaccines the answer to population control?

No disrespect taken.

I do find it however interesting how we have branded the term Conspiracy Theories as the domain for people with tin foil hats and pseudoscience. Problem with putting thing just in black or white makes people unable to reach a compromise and just keeps them divided. Especially since the statements of the 'tin-foil-hat' crowd are often quite disturbing they get simply branded under CTs and so there is no gray-area even possible between the two banks 'outright crazy' and 'well excepted fact'. Imagine what happens when one of those theories jumps over to 'well excepted'...well usually progress happens but it takes a whole lot longer without the gray-area to efficiently debate something. Reminds me of Arthur Schopenhauer's "All truth passes trough three stages...".
I would also point out that by replacing the meaning of a term 'Conspiracy theory' we have successfully deleted the existence of conspiracy theories from the dictionary.

Now I have to write back: No disrespect intended. ...Because I also really don't mean any.

But to get back to the matter at hand:

I am very much interested in clearing that map, I am only doubting the method proposed. More so, I find it very disturbing that given the past data(with some more here and here ...) and controversial history, there is no room to question it.

Adding:
- Vaccine Ingredients
- Vaccination schedule
- More info on vaccines

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Please quote scientific resources, otherwise meh.

[Forrest]

Re: Vaccines the answer to population control?

How do you define "rarely"? If it turns out that vaccines have a large part to play in today's cancer and autoimmune disease epidemics (and I'm not convinced that they do, but think researchers should look at the issue without bias)... that isn't a minor or rare "side effect".

I think that vaccines should be done the old fashioned way...with dead bacteria/viruses injected into the muscle...the same way one builds an immunity to pollen, or any other allergic factor. You start with next to none of the pure allergen, and over a period of weeks, increase the amount injected. Smallpox vaccination began with the dried scabs from smallpox victims being placed in the nostrils. It worked. So did giving related cowpox scabs.

Polio vaccine's were marvelous, as are Rabies vaccines...but vaccines for the common measles? Mumps? Chicken pox? What are they giving vaccines for...the flu? People could try washing their hands, and children in schools should be forcibly washed often...and taught that clean hands and face is a requirment in an advanced society, and that when you have a cold, or the flu, or anything that is catching isolation is a splendid way of prevent the spread of any illness. That would cover the bulk of sickness that one can catch.

Obviously, giving vaccines of this type are only worthwhile if the infection is deadly. The rest we should leave to our immune systems, so they are actually exercised occasionally, and if the immune system cannot overcome the illness without intervention, people should then, and only then, use an antibiotic, or antivirus.

One can be healthy, with a strong immune system if you were born with one. Of course, one would need to have the appropriately healthy food injestion of the time period of the 19th century to support the immune system of the embryo that is designed to fight off all that nasty stuff. Even the poorest people had chickens and fish a few times a week, cheese milk and butter from their goat or cow, plenty of eggs and the vegetables they grew. The chickens ate the seeds and bugs in their mini-farms of no more than 1/4 an acre. The cows, goats and sheep grazed on common land devoted to just that, paying for the grass with cheese, butter, and milk. Unfortunately, most people don't go for that option either, not for their child, not for themselves.

I do not wish to be unkind to those people who extend the life of their sickly child by desperate medical means...no one likes seeing a child suffer, or have a parent lose a child but it used to be a stronger, healthier community when people who were not deprived of good food, clean water and healthy immune systems did not see every child survive to adulthood. It certainly made children more cherished while you had them, and provided a sound basis for closely held family groups, and tight responsible community systems.

Our current high tech society now has made the common worker that was so valuable in times past to be less than worthless so that scientists and governments want to cull the weaker of children and older adults by force...those vaccines can help weaken people if the disease is not deadly enough to take them out naturally.

Now that some diseases are close to being irradicated in wealthier nations, the scientists and government seek to establish a new way to control population in poorer nations, so that we have enough children for a successful, and growing population, and not so many that people go hungry or without clean water.

Train everyone to eat food with no real sustenance in it, saturate their lives with stress and fear, and people start getting sickly. Take away their ability to support themselves, and the young have nothing to do but amuse themselves with entertainment, grumble, and eventually lose hope, and when their anger eventually rises at the lack of satisfaction in their lives, mismanage the economy so that only the quick minded and well connected can make a living, and you have all of the recipe for war, which leaves famine and disease in its wake.

Of course...that would be so if there were any conspiracy theories. No one needs a conspiracy...evil is growing everywhere in a broken world that is over-run with people all seeking to have the best of everything...no matter the cost.

Or, we can go back to war, famines and pestilence...only the strong survive those.

[vjakopin]

Re: Vaccines the answer to population control?

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20...fer-craig-phd/
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/obomsawin3.html
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/Immuniza...phs-RO2009.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/10/...dmissions.html
http://www.vacfacts.info/the-unbiase...-and-data.html

[ddn3f]

Re: Vaccines the answer to population control?

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20...fer-craig-phd/
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/obomsawin3.html
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/Immuniza...phs-RO2009.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/10/...dmissions.html
http://www.vacfacts.info/the-unbiase...-and-data.html

Thanks for all the research. Very useful.

[vjakopin]

Re: Vaccines the answer to population control?

And:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-aTKKP5S-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwuyxyBUmwY