Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

[cobben]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

"So basically what he's saying is that price manipulation by false paper promises (counterfeit) in this market has been in place since the beginning"

No, what he is saying is that there is no such thing as a "naked short" in a futures market, as they are all paper zero-sum games dealing in future promises to deliver/receive, not in the physical commodity.

The US futures markets are uninteresting in the big picture gold manipulation discussion, other than short-term options-related shenanigans (which may well be criminal).

It's the LBMA that is interesting, and it doesn't seem to me that for example Christian understands it, nor does GATA for that manner.

[zilbo79]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

No, what he is saying is that there is no such thing as a "naked short" in a futures market, as they are all paper zero-sum games dealing in future promises to deliver/receive, not in the physical commodity.

No way to game the system via naked short selling, eh? Maguire's accurate predictions were merely coincidental I reckon.

Promises on promises upon promises, eh? That sounds familiar. Why, that sounds like credit derivatives.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4546199.shtml

We've seen this movie before. This is most likely seeds for the next crisis.

[zilbo79]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

All I hear from Ritholtz is ad hominems. That is a tell-tale sign of a weak argument. He presents no data to refute DeepCapture's mountains of evidence:

http://www.deepcapture.com/category/data/

[icm63]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

If you believe that equities will have a dip in price this year, there will be contagion selling is strong assets (ie Gold), of at least $200, just like 2008

BUY then.

Of course will the sell off start at GOLD @ 1300 or 1200 or 1100

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Ba1...eature=related

Bearish info here : http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15062

[cobben]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

"No way to game the system via naked short selling, eh? Maguire's accurate predictions were merely coincidental I reckon. "

I wrote:

" other than short-term options-related shenanigans (which may well be criminal)."

This is still not naked shorting (of the physical), they are selling futures (promises) which someone else is buying.

[zilbo79]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

First thing Monday morning: Selling all GLD. Buying physical (at a 6% surcharge, where I live) buy nevertheless....the real thing is always THE REAL THING.

Agreed. It makes it easier to sleep at night I think.

[surfersdsb]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

M-man. As a long term energy trader on wall street I read your columns with amusement. You seem to take yourself way to seriously. Your condescending view of others points is a bit much. How and the world can you even dare to speak with so much smugness, Would love to know the details of your background and work experience that allows you to speak with such smugness.

As we you to say regarding the successful traders and talker. The real traders were independently wealthy based on their ability to understand risk. The talkers were just that, talkers.

Something tells me you live in 4 story walk-up below 14th st on the east side, scratching out your opinions, while the four gold coins you own prop up your wobbly desk.

I have yet to read anything from you that would make anyone any money. Except to state " us old guys at itulip" read Eric.

Agreed with the other post Metal=Tool

No offense:
surfersd retired, trading and surfing in Sd

[zilbo79]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

" other than short-term options-related shenanigans (which may well be criminal)."

Now we're just arguing over the semantics of fraud.

There's obviously fraud going on here, to what extent nobody knows for certain because the CFTC and other "regulators" won't do their job. And that's the scary part because one sees the warning signs (like in the Madoff case) but yet nobody in authority is doing anything about it.

So we might argue over whether NSS is happening (there's no reason to disbelieve it given the track record of our indolent regulators) but you can't refute that there's manipulation unless you believe Maguire's accurate predictions were pure coincidence.

[Spartacus]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

I'm not ever going to trade COMEX so I haven't read the contracts, but apparently, like LBMA, COMEX is not supposed to be naked either; anything naked on COMEX was supposed to be temporarily naked- the short was supposed to be able to produce within some reasonable timeframe, like a mining company that shorted & was able to produce the product.

That's what Ted Butler has been complaining about for so long -
1. COMEX/NYMEX/CBOT seemingly sets no visible limits on shorts
2. COMEX/NYMEX/CBOT does not let longs go unlimited long
3. COMEX/NYMEX/CBOT sets exceedingly small position limits for longs and no reasonable limits for shorts
4. After all the previous instances of complaints to COMEX/CFTC, COMEX/CFTC has always claimed (without providing verifiable proof) the short position was " ... fully backed by physical ..."

If unlimited shorting on COMEX is OK, why would COMEX/CFTC need to make that claim repeatedly?

COMEX tried to introduce a no-delivery contract a few years ago and it was a ocmplete failure.

Mitchell's (Byrne's?) point of view was interesting, still digesting it.
Here's another piece to the puzzle that debunks GATA to some extent at least.
There are obviously lots of opposing vested interests fighting it out here.
Watch the markets, "the truth" will appear there first.

Of Gold Bugs and Market Parables
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1966...arket-parables


The London market is supposedly a true physical market and as such is more interesting.
<!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_909759-->

[Spartacus]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

What happens when your workplace reeks to high heaven?
you eventually shut out the stench

not mean that the LBMA is necessarily a ponzi scheme, just that Christian seems to be semi-clueless as to what is really going on. That in itself is scary enough.

Or as EJ once wrote, no one believes the bullcrap more than those whose paycheques depend on that belief.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

I'm not sure how reliable Deep Capture is as a source of information. Barry Ritholz of The Big Picture is certainly no fan of Deep Capture's Patick Byrne.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12...ebook-friends/

That's ok -- Patrick Byrne probably feels the same way about Barry Ritholz .

The truth is elusive, no doubt about that.

[phirang]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

The goldbugs are going to get hammered when the market realizes what is truly going to drive (we haven't had it yet!) inflation in 2010/2011.

Obama says we're not broke anymore. I'm not fading him.

[phirang]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

Ted Butler is a fraud AND moron and anyone trading off of this CRAP deserves to be wiped out.

The sooner the idiotic bugs get blown up, the better.

[swannmex]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

Ted Butler is a fraud AND moron and anyone trading off of this CRAP deserves to be wiped out.

The sooner the idiotic bugs get blown up, the better.

The goldbugs I know, myself included, have made fortunes investing in gold over the last 10 years. When I look at the gold ounces I bought in 2002 for less than $300.00 I don't feel asinine or dumb, I feel right. Say whatever you like about "goldbugs" but we have made a ton of money being right over the last 10 years. Good luck day trading "professionally" but I will keep 'goldbug" profits for the last 10 years and enjoy my retirement.

[jtabeb]

Re: Deep Capture: Manipulating Gold and Silver

Ted Butler is a fraud AND moron and anyone trading off of this CRAP deserves to be wiped out.

The sooner the idiotic bugs get blown up, the better.

Phirang, my 10 year total return is 400%.

What's YOURS?

(yeah, thought so)