What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

[jtabeb]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

You should really read some Hobbes. Maybe you should just realize that people are stupid, and democracy are tyranny.

I think calivn is much funnier.

[jtabeb]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

noway ;)

Just jesting, all in good fun!

ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!

[Raz]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Just a few thoughts from the "dead white guys" who wrote the Constitution and founded this nation of ignorant, overweight, uncultured rednecks:



"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334



"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
-- George Washington



"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."


-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759. And lastly, a word from a true colonial who knew what it was like to live in a police state (although a very mild one, as police states go):


"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."


-- Mahatma Gandhi

[Munger]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

Anyplace you get a significant population of rednecks, you get a sub-population of racist idiots who want to make the country homogeneous.

Fixed your post.

[Munger]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

Yeah, NO SAMPLING error there or anything. You know comparing populations with hundreds of millions to you know, hundreds.

Great chart, I see you failed statistics in high school, non?

I assume you mean that the results are not statistically significant - because surely you noticed that the chart uses deaths/100,000 for the y-axis and %-of-population for the x-axis, canceling out population disparities?

The trendline looks pretty obvious to me. And most of the data points, at least in the second chart, have millions of people in the population and comprise a good number of the western developed countries.

[nero3]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

nero3,

This is a perfect example of Humanism at its worst. Only a mind which rejects any moral absolutes and has lost its powers of deductive reasoning could make such a statement. "War is peace, and lies are truth". It's obvious that you have never faced an armed criminal, nor have you had a friend or neighbor callously murdered by one of these "equal worth" criminals.

.

Evil men tend to think they are good. Maybe you should reflect upon that.

[rogermexico]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

I think all evil men think they are good.

Yes, you think you are good, but your slave mentality is evil.

[jtabeb]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

I assume you mean that the results are not statistically significant - because surely you noticed that the chart uses deaths/100,000 for the y-axis and %-of-population for the x-axis, canceling out population disparities?

The trendline looks pretty obvious to me. And most of the data points, at least in the second chart, have millions of people in the population and comprise a good number of the western developed countries.

Actually, I aced statistics, and chemistry But I got an F in third term physics, damn electromagnitism. The problem with the data as I sure YOU know that little buagaboo called causaility.

Are there more deaths from guns because there are more guns, or are there more deaths from guns because there is more violence. Are there more guns because someplace is more violent? Are there fewer guns in less violent places? You know logical fallacy. What about the proportion of legally obtained firearms vs illegally obtained ones. How many of those deaths were cause by persons that had legally obtained firearms vs those that had not.

How bout a chart that plots deaths and includes legal firearm ownership and excludes criminal homicide (from the deaths data)? That would be a better test case would it not (you know to prove your point that legal ownership of firearms leads to increasing homicde rates?

C'mon now you should know that there are lies, DAMN lies, and statistics.

If you want to prove something with statistics, make DAMN sure your data set is specific enough to quantify the question you are ACTUALLY asking.

[Raz]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

Evil men tend to think they are good. Maybe you should reflect upon that.

Since the age of thirty I have never thought of myself as good.
That was twenty-seven years ago. Now I'm sure that I am better than no one and probably worse than most.

Perhaps you should think long and hard about where your concept of "good" is coming from. Anyone who would invade my home and attack me or my wife probably has a far clearer idea of right and wrong than you do. He knows what he wants and doesn't care who or what stands in his way. He laughs at men who think like you and counts them as allies.

No civilization can survive if a majority of its people develop your mindset. They believe in nothing but personal peace and aren't willing to defend even a child. And while I never called you evil you quickly refer to me as such. You who count the life of an armed criminal as precious as your own family's - my, my, aren't you selective in your compassion!

I would never slander the people of Norway as you have slandered me and my countrymen. Yours was a nation that refused to join the treachery and treason of Vidkun Quisling; which produced the heroes of Telemark who sacrificed their own families rather than see Nazi Germany develop an atomic bomb; who hid Jews from their would-be exterminators.

I hope that you are not representative of the people of Norway.

[snakela]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

I assume you mean that the results are not statistically significant - because surely you noticed that the chart uses deaths/100,000 for the y-axis and %-of-population for the x-axis, canceling out population disparities?

The trendline looks pretty obvious to me. And most of the data points, at least in the second chart, have millions of people in the population and comprise a good number of the western developed countries.

No, its because correlation does not equal causality. If we flipped the X/Y axis of your chart it the NRA could use that as reasons the U.S. needs more guns.

[snakela]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

You should really read some Hobbes. Maybe you should just realize that people are stupid, and democracy are tyranny.

Thats why the U.S. is a republic (or tries to be/used to be).

[tombat1913]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

That might well mean junking federalism and junking the federal govn't, junking the Federal Reserve Bank, junking the U.S. Dollar, ridding ourselves of Congress, ridding ourselves of the federal debt, ridding ourselves of everything, even junking the public school system, and totally re-writing the U.S. Constitution, top-to-bottom.

Sounds like a winner to me. What could we lose?

Sounds like a winner to me too, but how about instead of junking the constitution we just follow it. The constitution didn't cause these problems, all of the entities listed above not following it caused these problems.

[tombat1913]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

The problems with all these guns is that they statistically just ends up killing friends and family. In my view all negative. Less guns, more safety, so simple. Each individual gun buyer might think he can buck the odds, but the proof is overwhelming, buying a gun, is stupid, I have a suspicion it's part of a southern states culture going way back, sort of intuition" as the stereotype. Let's say you even are so lucky that a thief make an attempt at your house, even then, you will be safer without a gun.

Where on earth are you getting your statistics?

[Munger]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

Actually, I aced statistics, and chemistry But I got an F in third term physics, damn electromagnitism. The problem with the data as I sure YOU know that little buagaboo called causaility.

Are there more deaths from guns because there are more guns, or are there more deaths from guns because there is more violence. Are there more guns because someplace is more violent? Are there fewer guns in less violent places? You know logical fallacy. What about the proportion of legally obtained firearms vs illegally obtained ones. How many of those deaths were cause by persons that had legally obtained firearms vs those that had not.

How bout a chart that plots deaths and includes legal firearm ownership and excludes criminal homicide (from the deaths data)? That would be a better test case would it not (you know to prove your point that legal ownership of firearms leads to increasing homicde rates?

C'mon now you should know that there are lies, DAMN lies, and statistics.

If you want to prove something with statistics, make DAMN sure your data set is specific enough to quantify the question you are ACTUALLY asking.

Correlation does not equal causality. True enough. There is an awful lot of correlation in those numbers though, was my point. Seems like it would be pretty hard to get killed by a gun if there weren't any around.

I would like seeing more specific numbers addressing what your quite valid points, though.

[Munger]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

If we flipped the X/Y axis of your chart it the NRA could use that as reasons the U.S. needs more guns.

This makes no sense.