What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

[jtabeb]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

In addition to the above mentioned article with regard to "run on guns" there is also a HUGE run on ammunition.... Walmart and almost every gun dealer i have been to are out of 9mm ammo for ~ the last 3 months.....

I simply wanted to go shooting at the range and i havent been able to get any ammo for several months now.....

Sorry dude, I packed everything I could into my three shopping carts, I should have left some. (not really kidding there at all, sorry to say)

[Penguin]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

I knew somebody got it all. I've been waiting on a back order for powder for months now!

Lot of hoarding going on and a lot of heated discussions at some of the hunting/shooting related sites about it as well. To me it is a hobby just like hiking and trail running. And I have been hunting since I was old enough to do so.

People are scared and not just of crime. A lot of it has to do with the fact that ammo/reloading prices doubled and tripled a while back as the commodities price spike occurred. Now there is a real Austrian economics streak in the more conservative republican and libertarian parts of this nation. And quite a few hunt and shoot. They expect prices to bulge again as this ocean of liquidity starts to go other places than the balance sheets of banks.

Will

[nero3]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

Funny, this from a guy who lives in Norway, where it is less restrictive to purchase a FULL AUTO firearem than it's been in the US since 1983.

I personally APPLAUD your country for their gun laws and find it humorous that someone who comes from a place where ALL kinds of guns are available so freely would condemn America Not for it's onerous RESTRICTIONS on individual firearm sales, but for the ease with which they are available.

How Ironic.

(you know you could come live over here if your country's gun laws bother you so much. I'm sure you would be QUITE happy with the level of difficulty in purchasing firearms here, compared with what freedoms you presently enjoy in your homeland )

You had this case with a TV celebrity that were apparently also a gun freak, he was having his apartment full of various gun's, and machine guns, all legal. Of course he was in the paranoid corner one day, and starting firing off, to scare of an imagined intruder. Did not hurt anyone, but that just shows what a mess it is with guns, when you get obsessed about it.

Even gun laws are liberal here, it's extremely rare to own a gun, and you need to go through a lot of training. Extremely rare. Of people between age 20-40, maybe 1 in 10000 , I'm really not sure on the numbers, but gun density is extremely low.

The thing is, if you have a gun and there is a criminal coming at you, and he also have a weapon, and act as a fired up idiot trying to defend his home and family, the risk is much better for a life going down. I consider the criminals life of equal worth. If only one have a gun, then it's much more likely, that the thing will just blow over on itself, as you won't attempt something stupid.

[nero3]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Mass murders in 2009:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/Min...7288842&page=1

The problem we have is that no one can take the guns away from those who will use them incorrectly. They have tried in different areas. What happens is the criminals have guns and innocent people are then helpless and occasionally get slaughtered. In 1933-1935 the problem we had was that criminals had bigger guns than law enforcement.

It would be impossible for anyone (government, military, police, etc...) to take all of the guns away from the people. If they tried many lives would be lost.

Judging who should have them, actually is wrong. Human nature just is the way it is. It's not the skills operating the gun, that's the thing as I think. I think that's not where the problem lies. It's more that those who are worried enough to buy a gun also is more likely to shoot down a thief, get paranoid on their wife, the full package really. You can't make that judgment. Nobody, should have a gun, more guns means more murders. Having a gun, when a criminal comes at you, just increases the risk.

[Yaowarat]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Ha, that is the money quote:

People are seeing a looming economic collapse that will lead to a prolonged and possibly worsening breakdown of law and order and, eventually, a We-the-People vs. armed-government-enforcers scenario. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees through the Keynesian scam and sees the wisdom in preparing for the worst."

[Penguin]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

So you recommend throwing ones self on the mercy of the intruders?

Bwahahahahaha! You really haven't been over here to look around have you?

Will

[nero3]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

So you recommend throwing ones self on the mercy of the intruders?

Bwahahahahaha! You really haven't been over here to look around have you?

Will

You are just plain stupid if you think you have the nerves to handle a gun correctly if a burglar makes a move on your house (unless you are a real bad ass that is). You probably kill the idiot, or aggravate the situation and make him kill you. In the last 10 years I think there have only been two cases here, where intruders have been killed, and in both cases, it have been gun nuts, that afterwards have been charged with murder. If you work in a bank, you don't have a gun under your desk, and nor should you have one in your home.

[Chomsky]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

In addition to the above mentioned article with regard to "run on guns" there is also a HUGE run on ammunition.... Walmart and almost every gun dealer i have been to are out of 9mm ammo for ~ the last 3 months.....

I simply wanted to go shooting at the range and i havent been able to get any ammo for several months now.....

There was just a piece on this on 60 Minutes this past weekend. It alleged that people are hoarding bullets because of a fear that the Obama administration will impose a heavy tax on ammunition, as an end-around means of gun control.

[Penguin]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Who me?

I don't know whether I have the nerves to successfully defend myself or not. Have no idea. Hope I never find out. But I'll take my chances on the 870 and my nerves before I'll throw myself on the mercy of the maggotry we have strutting around this country glorifying murder and rape and an imagined grievance at those like me.

You really have no idea what you are saying because you have no understanding of gangland culture in this country. There are areas of this country where you or I would be killed just to see what it looks like. You cannot ask for mercy because they don't have any.

I'm not a gun loony, hell I don't even own a pistol. I don't sit around talking to my guns and I don't play with them. I'm just your average hillbilly who grew up using them and understands what they will do very well. And tbh I think developing relationships with other skilled persons is what usually gets one through economic crises, not a couple crates of 308 ammo and a hundred pounds of dried beans.

But if a man were to break in on me and I could get to a gun I would damned sure shoot him. It is the chance you take as an outlaw. And I wouldn't miss any sleep over it either. You act like it is a given that you just give these criminals what they want and they go away.

You allow these maggots to pull a gun on you and get in your house and you have no idea what they will do. Way too many torture/rape/kill stories every year to take that chance.

Will

[nero3]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Who me?

I don't know whether I have the nerves to successfully defend myself or not. Have no idea. Hope I never find out. But I'll take my chances on the 870 and my nerves before I'll throw myself on the mercy of the maggotry we have strutting around this country glorifying murder and rape and an imagined grievance at those like me.

You really have no idea what you are saying because you have no understanding of gangland culture in this country. There are areas of this country where you or I would be killed just to see what it looks like. You cannot ask for mercy because they don't have any.

I'm not a gun loony, hell I don't even own a pistol. I don't sit around talking to my guns and I don't play with them. I'm just your average hillbilly who grew up using them and understands what they will do very well. And tbh I think developing relationships with other skilled persons is what usually gets one through economic crises, not a couple crates of 308 ammo and a hundred pounds of dried beans.

But if a man were to break in on me and I could get to a gun I would damned sure shoot him. It is the chance you take as an outlaw. And I wouldn't miss any sleep over it either. You act like it is a given that you just give these criminals what they want and they go away.

You allow these maggots to pull a gun on you and get in your house and you have no idea what they will do. Way too many torture/rape/kill stories every year to take that chance.

Will

I think the best idea if you feel so worried that you need a gun is to move to another location. In Norway, there are a place I would not want to live. It's normal that when I have visitors from other countries that they are amazed, we can just go outside when it's dark, in the woods, and fear nothing. I go alone, in the dark, outside, almost every day. No fear, and I don't think anyone else have it.

[Penguin]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

You have the nerve to lecture me about courage when you talk a few strolls outside after dark Norway? And that if I feel the need to self defense I should just move to another country?

You gotta be kidding me.

We all get it, you recommend rolling over on your belly and begging the nice intruder to please not rape the wife or molest the 10 year old girl. We get it. That's your advice. We understand where you are coming from. It is a matter of personal choice and that is yours.

We all have different makeups depending on upbringing and disposition. You do it your way and I'll do it mine.

But please spare me the condescending preaching.

Will

[GRG55]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

There was just a piece on this on 60 Minutes this past weekend. It alleged that people are hoarding bullets because of a fear that the Obama administration will impose a heavy tax on ammunition, as an end-around means of gun control.

A new catagory of inflation hedge, eh...:rolleyes:

[flintlock]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Yes, that's what I recommend. The last 10 years, in Norway, I think there have been two cases where intruders have been murdered. In both cases the gun nuts, have been charged with full murder. Had they not had a gun, the whole thing had been avoided. The notion that you can just kill someone that enters your property in self defense with a gun, is not right. Just let them empty your house, get your insurance.

This attitude about self defense goes a long way to explain Norway's exceptional performance in WWII. Took what, about a month, for 120,000 German troops to sweep through Norway vs a similar number of Norwegian and Danish forces aided by Britain. See, most Americans, they actually consider their own defense a personal responsibility. Not something for their insurance company( or the Allies) to take care of.

You've been reading way too many left wing propaganda rags. Overwhelmingly, the majority of gun related murders in the US are committed by criminals who are not legally allowed to own guns in the first place. Often they simply kill each other. Unfortunately those crimes are so common that mostly only the "massacres" make the news that reaches Europe.

The US has 4 million mostly law abiding NRA members. ( almost equal to the entire population of Norway). The US is more violent, no doubt. But most here are not interested in living in a more violent country without the means to defend themselves. You hear of these "massacres" in the US. But compare them to the Holocaust, the Armenian massacres, Pogroms, the massacres during Europe's wars of religion, etc. These are massive by comparison, and are something the United States has never had. This kind of mass murder would be almost impossible to pull off against an armed citizenry. Its only when one group can set upon innocent civilians with impunity that you see massacre on this scale. America's founding fathers realized this and so set forth in our constitution the right to bear arms.

[krakknisse]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Nero3 & jtabeb: A little dose of legal and current reality for both of you.


JTabeb: Fully automatic firearms are not legal to own in Norway. §2 in the regulations state that it is illegal to own (source in Norwegian and in semi-intelligible Google Translate):

• Guns that usually are used as guns of war ("krigsvåpen", German "kriegswaffen")
• fully automatic firearms, even though they are not usually used as guns of war
• firearms camouflaged as another item
• armor piercing ammunition (metal core), incendiary or explosive ammunition
• electroshock weapons, pepper spray, spring knifes, batanga knives, stiletto knifes, "fighting gloves", "karate sticks", "throwing stars", dart blowing devices.

Nero3: Gun ownership is quite common in Norway. Handguns are owned by 4% of households, and any kind of firearm is owned by 32% of households. (Source here or here). The murder rate is 1 out of 100,000 population per year (30-45 per year). Norway has 8 murders by firearm per year (source). Combine that with a 32% household firearm ownership rate for at least 1.5 million firearms, and you get a "one in a million" firearm death rate. Getting certain statistics from that meagre evidence is not easy.

Norway, Finland and Switzerland have traditionally subscribed to the "hedgehog" (Norwegian: pinnsvin) old-fashioned approach. Arm the populace against a foreign intruder, and it will be more difficult. This position is falling out of favour, as Nero3 shows.

That said, Nero3 holds the now common urban "liberal" Norwegian's view of guns. The Swedes have a nice ironic saying: "Snälla staten, takk for maten", which means "Dear government, thanks for the food".

"Trust the system". And buy a big box of Crisco while you're at it. You're gonna need it.

[BK]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

I'm not a gun owner. But, do you remember the LA Riots a few years ago. The Only Store Owners who didn't have their stores looted were "Korean- American" store Owners.
The America's Gun Culture probably more tied to the massive geographic area and lots of people live in rural areas- far from a police station.

Yes - I'll agree that being robbed or harassed when you are way out in the country is probably a lot probability event - but, that threat drops to ZERO when there is a gun hanging over the fire place or a hand gun and some one who is trained to use it or prepared to use it.

Why Not mandate intensive Gun USE/Storate Training for any one that owns a Gun? Isn't attemptinng to take away guns similar to trying to dictate Abstaining from sex for teenagers?

YES- lots of stupid humans will occassionaly mis-use the device and hurt/kill a family member.
How many dumb fathers injure their children while taking them on Lawn Mower rides or family ATV adventures or back yard trampolines or backyard pools.
Have you ever tried to stop a looter with an offer to use your tramploline or your ATV or your backyard pool.

I think its time we make it illegal to own an ATV, a backyard pool , a trampoline!