What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

[BiscayneSunrise]

Thinking you can escape this mess geographically is, well, which is more naive staying where you are and fighting for what you have or leaving things behind and trying to rebuild only to discover that the forces you fled have now taken control over (economically, militarily, politically, doesn't matter really if they have control where you live right?) your new chosen domicile.

Here, here!

I got a kick out of the thread brainstorming over various safe places around the world to escape to prepare for a collapse of the US. It was a pleasant diversion but, by and large, a waste of time. With a couple of exceptions for either the super rich or the beach bums, the US will be the safest haven for the average middle class American.

I have no problem with leaving the US for foreign shores if it entails better opportunity. Several family members have had ex-pat assignments and have done quite well as a result. But they all came back.

As for those who think we should shred the Constitution: That's the only thing we got going for us. Better enforce it, more like. Disband Congress? Sounds great but think about it. Congress represents the people, at least ostensibly, disband Congress and you are left with a tyranical executive branch.

My grandparents emigrated to the US for good reason. Many of their countrymen of the time went instead to Argentina or Venezuela. Thank God my grandparents came here.

As for me, I'm here in the US to stay and will continue to work to make it a better place.

[audrey_girl]

What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0413/p...sc.html?page=1

excerpts from the MSM/CS Monitor:

Armed America: Behind a broadening run on guns

ATLANTA - What do an elderly Oklahoma homeowner, a Virginia Citizen Militia member, and a Texas airline pilot all have in common these days...

They're all part of America's massive gun-and-ammunition buying spree – a national arming-up effort that began before last year's election of President Obama and continues unabated. Across the United States, it has led to shortages of assault-style weapons, rising prices, and a broadening of gun culture to increasingly include older Americans, women and – gasp – liberals...

The buying trend, however, is far deeper and more prolonged than any knee-jerk reaction to an election or potential legislation, experts say. Though liberals still favor gun control at far higher percentages than conservatives, Americans as a whole are edging in the direction of more gun rights, according to a recent poll by Rasmussen Reports, an independent polling firm in New Jersey.

"The logic is simple," says Tom Lee, a member of the Virginia Citizen Militia, which traces its roots to the Revolutionary War. "People are seeing a looming economic collapse that will lead to a prolonged and possibly worsening breakdown of law and order and, eventually, a We-the-People vs. armed-government-enforcers scenario. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees through the Keynesian scam and sees the wisdom in preparing for the worst."

[nero3]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

So you recommend throwing ones self on the mercy of the intruders?

Bwahahahahaha! You really haven't been over here to look around have you?

Will

Yes, that's what I recommend. The last 10 years, in Norway, I think there have been two cases where intruders have been murdered. In both cases the gun nuts, have been charged with full murder. Had they not had a gun, the whole thing had been avoided. The notion that you can just kill someone that enters your property in self defense with a gun, is not right. Just let them empty your house, get your insurance.

[Starving Steve]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Of course, Keynsian economics is a scam, and the victims are the savers and the next generation ( our kids ) who has to assume our government's debts. But how do guns help solve this mess? How do self-appointed armed "enforcers" help solve this mess? What do the enforcers enforce?

Better to move to Canada or Mexico than to stay in America now if that would mean buying guns, joining white vigillante groups, and killing each other. Or might it be better to stay in America and co-operate with each other at the state level. That might well mean junking federalism and junking the federal govn't, junking the Federal Reserve Bank, junking the U.S. Dollar, ridding ourselves of Congress, ridding ourselves of the federal debt, ridding ourselves of everything, even junking the public school system, and totally re-writing the U.S. Constitution, top-to-bottom.

Sounds like a winner to me. What could we lose? Yes, we would end-up as Argentina once was, but we are already becoming like Argentina was in its darkest days.

[nero3]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0413/p...sc.html?page=1

excerpts from the MSM/CS Monitor:

Armed America: Behind a broadening run on guns

ATLANTA - What do an elderly Oklahoma homeowner, a Virginia Citizen Militia member, and a Texas airline pilot all have in common these days...

They're all part of America's massive gun-and-ammunition buying spree – a national arming-up effort that began before last year's election of President Obama and continues unabated. Across the United States, it has led to shortages of assault-style weapons, rising prices, and a broadening of gun culture to increasingly include older Americans, women and – gasp – liberals...

The buying trend, however, is far deeper and more prolonged than any knee-jerk reaction to an election or potential legislation, experts say. Though liberals still favor gun control at far higher percentages than conservatives, Americans as a whole are edging in the direction of more gun rights, according to a recent poll by Rasmussen Reports, an independent polling firm in New Jersey.

"The logic is simple," says Tom Lee, a member of the Virginia Citizen Militia, which traces its roots to the Revolutionary War. "People are seeing a looming economic collapse that will lead to a prolonged and possibly worsening breakdown of law and order and, eventually, a We-the-People vs. armed-government-enforcers scenario. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees through the Keynesian scam and sees the wisdom in preparing for the worst."

This is bullshit. It might have something to do with the European style Obama wanting to control the sale of guns. As I hope he will do, something needs to be done with the gun crazy Americans.

[TRake]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

"This is bullshit. It might have something to do with the European style Obama wanting to control the sale of guns. As I hope he will do, something needs to be done with the gun crazy Americans."


I guess you wouldn't understand since you have no experience in the US. As this mess progresses we will have more and more violence in this country. I have a friend who is a Gary, Indiana police officer. Gary was the murder capital of the US just a few years back and the only reason it isn't now is because it is too small. My friends hours were cut from 40 to 32 about a year ago due to lack of city funds. He will likely find employment in another more wealthy community soon. This is a trend that will continue until there is little or no supervision in the city of Gary, and this is probably not the only city in the US in such a state. I live 30 miles south of Gary and I do plan on buying a gun soon. I do not plan to use it, but I will do what I have to do to protect my family and friends.

TRake

[nero3]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

"This is bullshit. It might have something to do with the European style Obama wanting to control the sale of guns. As I hope he will do, something needs to be done with the gun crazy Americans."


I guess you wouldn't understand since you have no experience in the US. As this mess progresses we will have more and more violence in this country. I have a friend who is a Gary, Indiana police officer. Gary was the murder capital of the US just a few years back and the only reason it isn't now is because it is too small. My friends hours were cut from 40 to 32 about a year ago due to lack of city funds. He will likely find employment in another more wealthy community soon. This is a trend that will continue until there is little or no supervision in the city of Gary, and this is probably not the only city in the US in such a state. I live 30 miles south of Gary and I do plan on buying a gun soon. I do not plan to use it, but I will do what I have to do to protect my family and friends.

TRake

The problems with all these guns is that they statistically just ends up killing friends and family. In my view all negative. Less guns, more safety, so simple. Each individual gun buyer might think he can buck the odds, but the proof is overwhelming, buying a gun, is stupid, I have a suspicion it's part of a southern states culture going way back, sort of intuition" as the stereotype. Let's say you even are so lucky that a thief make an attempt at your house, even then, you will be safer without a gun.

[TRake]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

I am sorry if you took offense to what I had to say, but you truly do not know what it is like living in this country.

[audrey_girl]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

think people are afraid -

especially after the horrible events of the last few years, terrorist attacks, katrina, global warming, and now severe economic stress -

that said maybe a better response would be to join a food bank or help out at a school to teach kids, or spend more time at church or with kids?

maybe the media should turn down the volume on all the doom and fear?

to be fair the article did try to point this out:

"The FBI reported in January that, nationwide, violent crime was down 3.5 percent in 2008, robberies were down 2.2 percent, and car thefts declined by 12.6 percent. Those statistics contrast with 2006, when robberies, for example, jumped by nearly 10 percent"

but this was on page 2
:mad:

[jtabeb]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Of course, Keynsian economics is a scam, and the victims are the savers and the next generation ( our kids ) who has to assume our government's debts. But how do guns help solve this mess? How do self-appointed armed "enforcers" help solve this mess? What do the enforcers enforce?

Better to move to Canada or Mexico than to stay in America now if that would mean buying guns, joining white vigillante groups, and killing each other. Or might it be better to stay in America and co-operate with each other at the state level. That might well mean junking federalism and junking the federal govn't, junking the Federal Reserve Bank, junking the U.S. Dollar, ridding ourselves of Congress, ridding ourselves of the federal debt, ridding ourselves of everything, even junking the public school system, and totally re-writing the U.S. Constitution, top-to-bottom.

Sounds like a winner to me. What could we lose? Yes, we would end-up as Argentina once was, but we are already becoming like Argentina was in its darkest days.

You are funny! You think that the people in charge of the (still) most powerful system of POWER concentration in the WORLD are voluntarily going TO SURRENDER THAT PRIVILEGE? You must be joking.

I might add that it would not matter WHERE YOU LIVED because their actions impact the ENTIRE GLOBE (or did you not notice that).

Thinking you can escape this mess geographically is, well, which is more naive staying where you are and fighting for what you have or leaving things behind and trying to rebuild only to discover that the forces you fled have now taken control over (economically, militarily, politically, doesn't matter really if they have control where you live right?) your new chosen domicile.

What you fail to understand is that the concentration of power is either stopped by collapse or by force, otherwise, it subsumes EVERYTHING.

Mayer Anselm Rothschild, the great European Banker, once say: "Permit me to ussue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws..."


"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

The last one is attributed to Thomas Jefferson, and though it may not be an accurate historical quote (see link) it perfectly captures the trial we are facing today on the world stage.

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki...28Quotation%29


V/R

JT

[jtabeb]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

This is bullshit. It might have something to do with the European style Obama wanting to control the sale of guns. As I hope he will do, something needs to be done with the gun crazy Americans.

Funny, this from a guy who lives in Norway, where it is less restrictive to purchase a FULL AUTO firearem than it's been in the US since 1983.

I personally APPLAUD your country for their gun laws and find it humorous that someone who comes from a place where ALL kinds of guns are available so freely would condemn America Not for it's onerous RESTRICTIONS on individual firearm sales, but for the ease with which they are available.

How Ironic.

(you know you could come live over here if your country's gun laws bother you so much. I'm sure you would be QUITE happy with the level of difficulty in purchasing firearms here, compared with what freedoms you presently enjoy in your homeland )

[jtabeb]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

Let's say you even are so lucky that a thief make an attempt at your house, even then, you will be safer without a gun.

That is Nero's QUOTE of the YEAR!

Let's try that and see if it works, okay?

Nero3, could you please send us your address so that we can dispatch a violent criminal to your house (which I presume does not have a firearm in it) and test the validity of your theory?

After you are dead we will give you a firearm and send another violent criminal to your home and see if you do better in the second encounter. Okay? How does that sound? You up for a little "testing" action?

[jtabeb]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

think people are afraid -

especially after the horrible events of the last few years, terrorist attacks, katrina, global warming, and now severe economic stress -

that said maybe a better response would be to join a food bank or help out at a school to teach kids, or spend more time at church or with kids?

maybe the media should turn down the volume on all the doom and fear?

to be fair the article did try to point this out:

"The FBI reported in January that, nationwide, violent crime was down 3.5 percent in 2008, robberies were down 2.2 percent, and car thefts declined by 12.6 percent. Those statistics contrast with 2006, when robberies, for example, jumped by nearly 10 percent"

but this was on page 2
:mad:

You think crime might just go up, you know, after people loose their jobs and their house and all the trinkets they bought on credit, and have had their 401Ks and IRAs wiped out. You think crime, maybe, just might go up then?

[TRake]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Mass murders in 2009:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/Min...7288842&page=1

The problem we have is that no one can take the guns away from those who will use them incorrectly. They have tried in different areas. What happens is the criminals have guns and innocent people are then helpless and occasionally get slaughtered. In 1933-1935 the problem we had was that criminals had bigger guns than law enforcement.

It would be impossible for anyone (government, military, police, etc...) to take all of the guns away from the people. If they tried many lives would be lost.

[karim0028]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

In addition to the above mentioned article with regard to "run on guns" there is also a HUGE run on ammunition.... Walmart and almost every gun dealer i have been to are out of 9mm ammo for ~ the last 3 months.....

I simply wanted to go shooting at the range and i havent been able to get any ammo for several months now.....