GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

[doom&gloom]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

I see... I am Rush Jr. because I believe in conservative fiscal policies.

What would it make me if I were to blindly follow Obama policies?
Olberman Jr.?

People on the Left are as funny and polarized as the people on the Right,
only now that they are in power they act like it is their manifest destiny
to do whatever they want without dissent. These are the same people
who complained when the Right was criticising dissent from the policies
of the Left. Too funny.

BTW, the name calling is a very childish way of debating policies, but if it
makes you happy feel free to do so -- I just consider the source from a
different lgith when I respond.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

You should consider being labeled "Rush Jr." an honor, not an insult ;).

[doom&gloom]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

he he... I find Rush amusing on the rare times I hear him, but I am much
more like Lars Larson or (locally in Seattle) Dori Monson. I deplore waste,
buit do not mind social spending where necessary. I think both parties
have been bought off and paid for by lobbyists, and we the people get
the shaft as a result.

There is gonna be guttin' and cuttin' all over the place for some time to come.

[ricket]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

Absolutely none of the above.

But I am gonna take a guess here that you are a supporter of the Left
(correct me if I am wrong).

What I fail to understand about the Left nowadays is they way they
attempt to justify the outrageous spending proposed under Obama
Admin by whining about the ridiculous spending of the Bush Admin.

They are BOTH equally bad, though Obama may end up making the
Bush spending look like chump change when he is done.

So what is it you are so incensed about? That a Republican is calling
for fiscal conservancy again? Certainly no one on the Democrat side
is calling for it at this time. You think we should just try to spend our-
selves into bankrupcy?

He never said that the Obama spending was justified either.

You sure have taken the bait in dissecting this into a left vs. right issue, just as those who are running the show want you to. "Divide and Conquer" is a proven winning strategy. Way to fall for it.

It was easily discernible from what babbittd was typing (hence the question "Are you wasted drunk or just illiterate?") that, just because he was calling Gregg out, it doesnt mean that he supports spending so long as it comes from the left. You were trying to corner his argument into a much more rudimentary and confined area than what he was actually trying to say. The only justification you used for narrowing his argument in such a way was because he essentially called Gregg a corrupt liar like all the rest (which he had just cause because Gregg in fact *did* vote for the TARP three consecutive times). Babbittd was noting the hypocrisy and you mistook that for his support of government spending, as long as it's not from the GOP.

Gregg and the rest of the GOP are just as guilty, along with all the other corrupt "leaders" in CONgress for this fiscal mess. Your comprehension on this matter appears to be lacking, especially for someone who has been registered here on iTulip since March of 2007. I would expect that readers of iTulip would be a little more educated and wouldnt fall into the same traps as the mainstream media would like you to. To believe that 2 parties exist in the US with greatly different motives and direction (ie Republicans and Democrats) is foolish.

[World Traveler]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

Interesting discussion. I agree with Ricket that this left/right split is a sham, based mainly on social issues and attempts to distract the "little people" from fighting for their economic interests as a united front.

It's pretty clear that Big Money (i.e., financial elite, oligarchs, whatever you call them) controls both Democrat and Republican parties.

I've tended to vote Democrat most of my life and I've been getting pretty turned off by their economic stands over the last few years.

I'm at the point where I think I'm going to put my future efforts into grass roots movements and a 3rd or 4th political party (if such ever emerge).

I've also put some effort into pointing out to long-time Republicans that I know, that we have a lot more in common than we think.

Neither party truly fights for our economic interests. Instead we should join up and fight for our rights, in kind of a "Common People's Party".

[doom&gloom]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

He never said that the Obama spending was justified either.

You sure have taken the bait in dissecting this into a left vs. right issue, just as those who are running the show want you to. "Divide and Conquer" is a proven winning strategy. Way to fall for it.

It was easily discernible from what babbittd was typing (hence the question "Are you wasted drunk or just illiterate?") that, just because he was calling Gregg out, it doesnt mean that he supports spending so long as it comes from the left. You were trying to corner his argument into a much more rudimentary and confined area than what he was actually trying to say. The only justification you used for narrowing his argument in such a way was because he essentially called Gregg a corrupt liar like all the rest (which he had just cause because Gregg in fact *did* vote for the TARP three consecutive times). Babbittd was noting the hypocrisy and you mistook that for his support of government spending, as long as it's not from the GOP.

Gregg and the rest of the GOP are just as guilty, along with all the other corrupt "leaders" in CONgress for this fiscal mess. Your comprehension on this matter appears to be lacking, especially for someone who has been registered here on iTulip since March of 2007. I would expect that readers of iTulip would be a little more educated and wouldnt fall into the same traps as the mainstream media would like you to. To believe that 2 parties exist in the US with greatly different motives and direction (ie Republicans and Democrats) is foolish.

Sorry, wrong. The general gist of the OP was an attack on the GOP,
not merely against Gregg. Thus, with a broad brush the OP labelled an
entire party as insane big spenders, when that is not quite correct.

For example, I am a social moderate to liberal, so you rarely find me
siding with the Right on many issues in that vein, but I will side with
ANY side that will cut spending at the government level and attampt
to reduce waste. The fact that the GOP was hijacked does not mean
that the conservative side of the GOP was happy with what happened.

I would never go so far as to label all on the Left big spenders as there
are clearly 'blue dog' Democrats who want nothing to do with some of
the Obama Admin spending and they have let their party know as much.
Nor would I ascribe the same label to all on the Right as there are some
there as well who still adhere to smaller and less expensive government.

And how long I have been a registered member of iTulip has absolutely
ZERO bearing on how I should view the world no matter how YOU think
I should view the world. If anything, you display your own misplaced
sense of impotance thinking I should see the world as you see it, not
with my own individual views. Funny -- you then criticise me for being
someone ascribing to labels and whatnot. I would say that is the pot
calling the kettle black, no? In fact, I even tossed out EXACTLY how
I could be labelled for all those who follow. Meanwhile, the OP has now
disappeared into the winds, leading me to believe he is a liberal in
conservative clothing (at least so far as this post was concerned).
Why YOU seek to defend him is just beyond me...

[jtabeb]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

I deplore waste,
buit do not mind social spending where necessary. I think both parties
have been bought off and paid for by lobbyists, and we the people get
the shaft as a result.

Best DAMN post on this entire thread! Thanks (and here HERE! B.T.W.)

[ricket]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

For example, I am a social moderate to liberal, so you rarely find me siding with the Right on many issues in that vein, but I will side with ANY side that will cut spending at the government level and attampt to reduce waste. The fact that the GOP was hijacked does not mean
that the conservative side of the GOP was happy with what happened.

Why would you support a side who is obviously lying to you and is only saying what they know you want to hear? Would you actually *vote* for someone like that? I mean really, would you actually *VOTE* for someone who votes legislatively for the very thing that he rails against not even 2 months later?? If so, you are being led to the kool-aid and youre taking the big gulp of cyanide just as intended and you are no different than all the other people who actually voted for the current Administration. You are blindingly being suckered into the "right vs. left" and "conservative vs. liberal" idealogy spat.

Supporting (in any form) a two-faced, lying, and manipulative candidate because he now all of a sudden has found his religion less than 2 months later demonstrates the very real problem of our current political system, and you are buying into it like everyone else! Shame on you...!

[doom&gloom]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

I would 'actually vote' for any candidate who I TRULY believed would cut
government spending and waste, and reduce the size of government. I
am personally saddened by BOTH parties actions at present, but I believe
there are legislators on BOTH side who have either wisened up, or who
never really drank the Kool-Aid to begin with -- so those people would get
my support. One think I certainly would NOT do is vote for a group like
Team Obama, who CLEARLY ascribe to bigger and more government.

[ricket]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

I would 'actually vote' for any candidate who I TRULY believed would cut government spending and waste

How could you actually believe what any of them say when they voted for the largest glut of government spending hardly 2 months ago?? Your statements indicate that you would be willing to vote for Sen. Gregg if only given the chance...?? And yes the GOP, for the most part, did in fact contribute to one of the largest spending gluts in modern history (the 2 wars in Iraq and Afghanistan), while also cutting taxes...You seem so quick to forget this fact and/or pretend that 780 billion is alot compared to the trillions spent overseas fighting the "war" on terror.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

He never said that the Obama spending was justified either.

Early on in his postings, babbittd wrote:

We're just supposed to forget what the GOP did during the Bush reign of borrowing and spending terror?

In case you've been living in a cave the last decade, Bush bashing has become a chronic habit of the left. Even when it is followed up with a disclaimer such as "Clinton had his problems, too" I sense the force of the Left, which has become so pervasive in mainstream media that most Bush bashers don't even consider themselves leftist anymore.

When we conservatives see the same insults that we've been flaunted and insulted with for the last decade or so, then it is entirely reasonable that we object. It is disengenious for you to demur, noting that babbittd didn't defend Obama. Babbittd's attacks were focused on Bush and the GOP. There was no balance in this thread from the beginning, and for you to suggest that it is us, not babbittd, who is introducing the imbalance is a flimsy rhetorical ploy.

[rogermexico]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

My outrage is fading into impotence, as I look for healthier, alternative, local ways to involve myself in this life for the remaining years allowed me.

Well said - a poignant thought I and probably many others here share.

Sometimes all we can do is care for our our own corner of the universe..

[doom&gloom]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

'zacktly! As one of more libertarian bent, I will side with the fiscal conservatives every time. I am afraid most of those got drowed out during the Bush years, but I have hope some of them will rise again, and the party will listen to them this time around.

OTOH, I presently have NO hope for the liberals, as the majority seem to think that Obama spending will fix all that ails us (after Bush spending obviously did not). Both are/were ridiculous. We all know debt reductiona nd writeoff is the only thing that may save us, and there is clearly little gumption on the part of Team Obama to embrace the hard path.

SO, if Gregg is TRULY willing to embrace fiscal conservancy, more power to him. If he put away the DC Kool-Aid, more power to him. EVen alcholics and drug addicts can see the light -- we can only hope more in DC will see the light regarding wasteful spending.

[ricket]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

Early on in his postings, babbittd wrote: In case you've been living in a cave the last decade, Bush bashing has become a chronic habit of the left. Even when it is followed up with a disclaimer such as "Clinton had his problems, too" I sense the force of the Left, which has become so pervasive in mainstream media that most Bush bashers don't even consider themselves leftist anymore.

When we conservatives see the same insults that we've been flaunted and insulted with for the last decade or so, then it is entirely reasonable that we object. It is disengenious for you to demur, noting that babbittd didn't defend Obama. Babbittd's attacks were focused on Bush and the GOP. There was no balance in this thread from the beginning, and for you to suggest that it is us, not babbittd, who is introducing the imbalance is a flimsy rhetorical ploy.

Saying "I hate hamburgers" does not imply "I like hotdogs". Those 2 statements are mutually exclusive...How in the world could you conclude that criticizing an action implies support for the opposite side? That is considered a logical fallacy. Legal cases are won and lost on this very concept.

The whole tone of the "conservatives" on this thread implies that somehow Obama is to blame for the economic mess that we find ourselves in (I'm not saying he *isnt* making it worse, but let's remember this fiscal emergency did not start while he was in office). And magically, the GOP is not responsible in any way because, well *obviously* they are the GOP and they stand for conservative spending and have always voted and acted prudently. And of course we know this because of their actions over the past month or so. I mean, who cares how they acted the past 8 years. We must look to the future to solve our problems now!

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: GOP Saturday Address - Senator Judd Gregg - Bizarro World

Saying "I hate hamburgers" does not imply "I like hotdogs". Those 2 statements are mutually exclusive.

Thank-you for the lesson in Logic. I am well versed in that subject, thank-you.

I'd offer you in return a lesson in reading comprehension, but I have no confidence you'd be interested or able.

The whole tone of the "conservatives" on this thread implies that somehow Obama is to blame for the economic mess that we find ourselves in...

Pot, kettle, black ...