What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

[FRED]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Now, hopefully with Lukester's concerns alleviated, can we please return to the core of this subject.

My questions for Fred are:

a)If I write another message on the subject of the best ways of investing in oil, would that message be deleted or the thread locked because it will be an infringement of an imposed intellectual monopoly on a subject that will be soon encompassed in a new iTulip Select content thesis?

iTulip will continue to operate its business in the interests of its customers and shareholders. From now on, threads will not be moved from the free to the subscription area.

b) If I put my ideas somewhere on the internet in a public access page (such as a personal blog, or a personal webpage) and link that page/blog here on iTulip, would that link to publicly available information be censored in order to maintain the iTulip monopoly on a discussion encompassed in a future iTulip thesis?

Depends on how frequently you do it. Please refer to our FAQ on SPAM policy.

d) If the answers to a) and b) is affirmative wouldn't that be equivalent to censorship of publicy available information for iTulipers in order to create an incentive for buying membership? Can the non-paying members be provided with a list of subjects that will be censored and cannot be freely debated?

iTulip is heavily censored. This is why you do not see racist, anti-Semitic, and other material that we do not like. This censorship is a major expense.

More than 100 members of the public apply to gain access to iTulip every day, of which fewer than 10% are admitted. The filtering process is another major expense.

Our largest expense is primary research and analysis.

Our second largest expense is maintaining relationships with hundreds of contacts around the world whose opinions help shape our thinking. For example today EJ was trading emails with Jamie Gabraith after his interviews on the latest bailout. If you are curious what EJ learns by talking to a range of people for the CEO of a CDO firm to people like Hudson and Jamie Galbriath, that is, a very broad range, in combination with decades of finance and business experience, and a strong 10 plus year forecasting record, then the subscription area is for you. Otherwise it is not.

For this reason, the subscription area discussions are more rigorously monitored.

By the way, some of our paid subscribers are the very bankersters (hedge fund managers, investment bankers, and so on) that some here accuse of elaborate conspiracies. The feedback they give us on these conspiracies is not that they are offended by the accusation but are, as you might guess, highly amused.

That's an example of a kind of discussion that is not appropriate for the subscription area but perfectly okay here in the free area.

[cjppjc]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Our apologies to you as well.

Thank you Fred. You know I still have that last private message you sent me. Taken out of context it would certainly fan the fires. I was thinking of posting it just for ho hos. but thought better of it.

Keep up the great work.

[LargoWinch]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Thank you Fred. You know I still have that last private message you sent me. Taken out of context it would certainly fan the fires. I was thinking of posting it just for ho hos. but thought better of it.

Keep up the great work.

What's this cjppjc? Blackmail? :eek:

[cjppjc]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

What's this cjppjc? Blackmail? :eek:

No. As I said before it would have been taken out of context.

[drumminj]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Totally besides the point.

The question is whether threads started as public by non subscribers should stay as such.

Well, I typed up a big reply, but it got eaten due to my shoddy internet connection.

Short story: as a subscriber, I agree with Symbols here. Lukester, I think you're overreacting a bit..it's not about whether iTulip Select is a good value for the money...that's a personal matter anyhow.

The discussion by non-iTulip entities - in both the Select and "public" forums adds great value to this site. Anything that discourage input in either forum is doing this site a disservice, IMO, and makes subscription less compelling.

[metalman]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Well, I typed up a big reply, but it got eaten due to my shoddy internet connection.

Short story: as a subscriber, I agree with Symbols here. Lukester, I think you're overreacting a bit..it's not about whether iTulip Select is a good value for the money...that's a personal matter anyhow.

The discussion by non-iTulip entities - in both the Select and "public" forums adds great value to this site. Anything that discourage input in either forum is doing this site a disservice, IMO, and makes subscription less compelling.

guess they concluded likewise because fred says no more moving threads.

as a subscriber, i like to cut loose a bit here on the free forums. it's like leaving the bar at the four seasons to take off your tie and hang with the guys at the local pub. i'd never talk serious financial stuff here, but it's good for pushing around fringe ideas. and in rant & rave i can talk dirty and write on the walls. it's the bathroom of the itulip bar and grill.

[Master Shake]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Sorry soda shake. The notion that shorting an ultra short fund in order to go long is a play suitable for the average investor seems somewhat lost on you. Is this lost on you perhaps? I don't offer any "brilliant plays" - as this kind of foolishness would be a land mine I would constantly fret about being answerable for. As far as I recall, I offer no investing advice at all - other than to suggest what I'm leary of in a global recession as treacherous as this one. There are a ton of flaky investment advisors out there, some even with formerly sterling reputations such as Stephen Leeb, whom I used to much admire - and they are squirrelling around proposing all sorts of acrobatics in order to extract rapacious dividends from the markets. $#*'s actionable ideas are far more speculative than even the formerly conservative Stephen Leeb. If you cannot spot the signature of "gadfly investing" ideas, then you deserve everything such ideas have to offer. This sort of thing is not a classy investment idea, at all.

I have no idea what you're talking about in re: shorting an ultra short. I do know that he called the oil bubble last summer, even though it led to a tortuous discussion of just what constituted a "bubble" among the faithful here. Bottom line is, he was spot on.

[drumminj]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

guess they concluded likewise because fred says no more moving threads.

Yes, it appears so. Just taking this opportunity to give my feedback to management as a paying customer, as it is on-topic in this thread. I also feel certain members who have spoken openly here deserve public support to counter the (IMO uncalled for) bashing they have received.

Ss a subscriber, i like to cut loose a bit here on the free forums. it's like leaving the bar at the four seasons to take off your tie and hang with the guys at the local pub. i'd never talk serious financial stuff here, but it's good for pushing around fringe ideas. and in rant & rave i can talk dirty and write on the walls. it's the bathroom of the itulip bar and grill.

It's hard to interpret your smiley, metalman, but I find this post incredibly condescending.

Perhaps you're much more enlightened than I - it's highly likely. But close to 50% of why I come here is for the discussion - for the differing viewpoints. Sometimes that includes yours, and ASH's, and Lukester's, Symbols, Bart, Finster, etc etc etc. I find valuable contributions from both paying and non-paying members. There are a lot of different background's represented here. Yes, most here seem relatively well-to-do, but there are business owners, engineers, brits, aussies, americans, canadians....all provide valuable insights. Yes, their contributions may not be as insightful or content-laden as EJ's are, but they still add value to the site, and bring me (and I imagine others) here on a more frequent basis.

Personally, I'd appreciate it if you kept the attitude in check, and try to add to and improve the quality of the discussion in the public forums, rather than see them as a place where you can go slumming with the "commoners."

[metalman]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Yes, it appears so. Just taking this opportunity to give my feedback to management as a paying customer, as it is on-topic in this thread. I also feel certain members who have spoken openly here deserve public support to counter the (IMO uncalled for) bashing they have received.



It's hard to interpret your smiley, metalman, but I find this post incredibly condescending.

Perhaps you're much more enlightened than I - it's highly likely. But close to 50% of why I come here is for the discussion - for the differing viewpoints. Sometimes that includes yours, and ASH's, and Lukester's, Symbols, Bart, Finster, etc etc etc. I find valuable contributions from both paying and non-paying members. There are a lot of different background's represented here. Yes, most here seem relatively well-to-do, but there are business owners, engineers, brits, aussies, americans, canadians....all provide valuable insights. Yes, their contributions may not be as insightful or content-laden as EJ's are, but they still add value to the site, and bring me (and I imagine others) here on a more frequent basis.

Personally, I'd appreciate it if you kept the attitude in check, and try to add to and improve the quality of the discussion in the public forums, rather than see them as a place where you can go slumming with the "commoners."

i'm taken aback! i was referring to the laid back atmosphere on the free forums... not that the people on them are inferior!

it's understandable that on a forum where members pay they don't want to hear unproven rumors as fact, conspiracy theories and other nonsense. itulip has to maintain a standard. if ej posted 'time to short commercial real estate' here on the free forums, there'd be this big, rambling and confused debate that no doubt will include a fed conspiracy theory or two. but on the select forums it means just what it says... 'time to short commercial real estate'.

[Sharky]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Show a little grace then in distinguishing the caliber of the freeby contributors from the lifeboat owner.

Yes, of course. My "complaints," if that what you want to call them, are totally superficial -- itulip is a great site, and a great resource. The caliber of EJ and FRED's articles is outstanding (I sometimes wonder if they are actually the same person), particularly because of the obvious amount of time, research, data and analysis that goes into them. The public posts are mostly ad hoc, so obviously aren't on the same level.

I was a free member here (leveling a lot of criticism at iTulip too, during that time) for more than 18 months before finally paying in.

Based on that, I'd think you'd be willing to cut the rest of us some slack, particularly those of us who have actually paid something (I've been a paid subscriber for 1 of the 3 months I've been here).

Also, keep in mind that I haven't said that I'm unwilling to become a subscriber again, just that I would be more readily inclined to do so if the terms of the subscription were slightly different.

iTulip's value is from:

1) the staff contributions (EJ, FRED etc.)

2) the community

I will pay for 1 gladly but not 2. Why should we pay for what we create?

+1.

I would add: why should we pay to have some of our discussions hidden from others who can contribute to them?

[audrey_girl]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

for what it is worth - i am very thankful this site exists. in the same way that I am thankful that someone like Dr. Paul and Peter Schiff or Russian TV exists.

b/c it offers a different way to look at this world, and that perspective is quite valuable.

one only has to turn on CNBC or Nightly Business Report to see how worthless and shoddy business journalism is today.

As someone who reads WSJ, IBD, Barrons, financial newsletters, and a least a dozen finance books a year - itulip is like an oasis in a desert

again - IMHO - and for what its worth

[LargoWinch]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Maybe its just me drumminj, but I would opt for the local pub over the four seasons any day; that is where my friends are. The four seasons is usually reserved for discussions with my boss about performance plans etc. and no, I do not think my boss is better than my friends.

Based on that, I think MM's post is the opposite of condescending. Like you said, the answer is perhaps in the smiley? ;)

[metalman]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Yes, of course. My "complaints," if that what you want to call them, are totally superficial -- itulip is a great site, and a great resource. The caliber of EJ and FRED's articles is outstanding (I sometimes wonder if they are actually the same person), particularly because of the obvious amount of time, research, data and analysis that goes into them. The public posts are mostly ad hoc, so obviously aren't on the same level.

fred sometimes posts ej's articles so you have to look. fred is clearly an admin and does not write. at least i can' recall a fred byline.

I would add: why should we pay to have some of our discussions hidden from others who can contribute to them?

i'm not paying for the comments, i'm paying for the environment itulip creates... starting with the content, the filtering out of the riffraff, the moderation when we occasionally get off track, and so on. it's a whole... a place. the people in the place are part of what makes the place, and the character of the place attracts certain people... in a big virtuous cycle.

[Guest]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Drumminj - I've had exactly the experience here which $#* is complaining about. I've posted several times with lead stories maybe on topics which iTulip wanted to reserve for paying customers, and I've witnessed the thread summarily whisked away into the select pages - that was over 18 long months when I was a noisy and obstreperous public pages poster. And I must tell you that I never wallowed in the kind of stuffed shirt righteousness that declaims: "monetizing the volunteered contributions of non-subcribers crosses a big moral threshold". "Monetizing", eh? :rolleyes: He's got a lot of you guys roped in - everyone agitated that people's rights are being trampled here.

Meanwhile, Symbols, you, I, and every other benighted person posting on these pages has enjoyed unparalleled freedom to post virtually whatever we wanted, and has been treated to an absolute banquet of free intel from EJ - all free - as a general good will area of this community. Far too many people who are getting all hot under the collar about the percieved pirating of scrambled egg's precious market insights on ETF's away from the public pages, have routinely taken for granted every last scrap of insight that these free public pages have been crammed with.

I browsed these public pages for 18 months before I became a member. After I became a member, I realised that a great part of this community's insights had already been given to me - for free. It is the churlishness, and the foolishness, of people's hen-pecking preoccupation with whether "valuable insights have been misappropriated" which I find verges upon the comical. There seems no ability to discern what a vast store of strategic intelligence on the markets has been imparted to you utterly free, by iTulip - as a public service on these public pages.

Does everyone know what "churlish" means? It means to be begrudging, but from the vantage point of a certain ignorance - and the ignorance here, pertains to grasping just how much one has already been blessed with superb information to impart safety. All that superb information has been handed out 100% freely. To be "churlish" means then, to be "meanly critical" of minute percieved injustices, while having willingly and hungrily gulped down all of these many meals of valuable wisdom beforehand - all for free.

Meanwhile, along with the indignation at the presumedly "priceless intel" that's been snatched away from scrambled eggs - information which then has been "unscrupulously" whisked away to the select member's pages, everyone is agog at the wisdom of scrambled egg's pronouncements on how to "play" the oil market. The "intel" that's been misappropriated here, concerned how to "play" this juncture, by going long double-short funds, or going short double-long funds, based upon the flashy, but highly speculative logic that as their index tracking is flawed, one can "leverage" this into "fat winnings" by betting on their inverse.

Here - read it, and then use the wisdom you generally reserve for your family's safe money, to evaluate the "wisdom" of this "trade's" risk / reward profile - this guy would purport to provide investing advice? :

Quote: If one want to play oil (expecting an increase in the oil price), IMHO the best idea is to short the most shaky and leveraged short ETN or ETF If things go really well one may profit way more than the increase of price. Conversely if one bets on the decrease in oil price the safest and best solution is to short an ultra leveraged shaky long ETN /ETF.

This does not constitute investing wisdom. If this was the "value-added intel" which has been "stolen" to the select pages, and this shocking impropriety is what's causing an uproar, you may be merely getting preoccupied by a reco that is not much more than a "candy wrapper". But for scrambled eggs, it is a case of: "monetizing the volunteered contributions of non-subcribers crosses a big moral threshold. I thought iTulip was better than that".

I have had posts and entire threads deleted here, more than once. What I'm suggesting is not irrelevant, is to understand the gravity of that, in the context of the mountains of free value which you guys all willingly (and hungrily!) gulp down here every day. You know, all that pile of market intel we come here to casually collect, that we take for granted is always abundant and free? So, I find all of this squawking going on about "free members inalienable rights", to be pompous rubbish. Scrambled eggs has had the freedom to ramble about these public pages and post anything his heart desired, 98% of the time - when in 2% of the time he encounters an obstruction he's instantly pounding the table about his "freedom" and his "rights" being infringed.

You want to park in a community free for a year, or two years, you are welcome. Even appreciated. But don't start whining about being exploited for pete's sake.

[cjppjc]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Drumminj - I've had exactly the experience here which $#* is complaining about. I've posted several times with lead stories maybe on topics which iTulip wanted to reserve for paying customers, and I've witnessed the thread summarily whisked away into the select pages - that was over 18 long months when I was a noisy and obstreperous public pages poster. And I must tell you that I never puffed myself up in the kind of stuffed shirt righteousness that I see symbols wallowing in. He's got a lot of you guys roped in - all concerned that people's rights are being trampled here.

Meanwhile, Symbols, you, I, and every other benighted person posting on these pages has enjoyed unparalleled freedom to post virtually whatever we wanted, and has been treated to an absolute banquet of free intel from EJ - all free - as a general good will area of this community. Far too many people who are getting all hot under the collar about the percieved pirating of scrambled egg's precious market insights on ETF's away from the public pages, have routinely taken for granted every last scrap of insight that these free public pages have been crammed with.

I browsed these public pages for 18 months before I became a member. After I became a member, I realised that a great part of this community's insights had already been given to me - for free. It is the churlishness, and the foolishness, of people's hen-pecking preoccupation with whether "valuable insights have been misappropriated" which I find verges upon the comical. There seems no ability to discern what a vast store of strategic intelligence on the markets has been imparted to you utterly free, by iTulip - as a public service on these public pages.

Does everyone know what "churlish" means? It means to be begrudging, but from the vantage point of a certain ignorance - and the ignorance here, pertains to grasping just how much one has already been blessed with superb information to impart safety. All that superb information has been handed out 100% freely. To be "churlish" means then, to be "meanly critical" of minute percieved injustices, while having willingly and hungrily gulped down all of these many meals of valuable wisdom beforehand - all for free.

Meanwhile, along with the indignation at the presumedly "priceless intel" that's been snatched away from scrambled eggs - information which then has been "unscrupulously" whisked away to the select member's pages, everyone is agog at the wisdom of scrambled egg's pronouncements on how to "play" the oil market. But how to "play" this juncture by going long double inverse funds, or going short double long funds, based upon the premise that as their futures plays are compromised, one can "leverage" this "wisdom" into "fat winnings", does not constitute market wisdom. That is a "candy wrapper" you are getting preoccupied about.

I will repeat the main point. I have had this happen to me, multiple times here, that posts of mine were "taken away" when I was a free member - and based upon the mountains of free value which you guys all willingly (and hungrily!) gulp down here every day and take for granted every day as well, I find all of this squawking going on about "free members inalienable rights", to be pompous rubbish. Scrambled eggs has had the freedom to ramble about these public pages and post anything his heart desired, 98% of the time - when in 2% of the time he encounters an obstruction he's instantly pounding the table about his "freedom" and his "rights" being infringed.

You want to park in a community free for a year, or two years, you are welcome. Even appreciated. But don't start whining about being exploited for pete's sake.

Lukester. Do you know what churlish means? With all due respect, you are wrong. Nobody that I could remember (and I'm NOT going back through this thread again.) was arguing about priceless intel being wisked away. It was the way we felt we were treated. You've made your point countless times about the value you perceive. This was not about that. If a poll was taken, I think most would vote that threads should not be moved. In any event Fred has said it would not happen again. That is more than good enough for me.

Btw: Fred said he has only done it twice. Is he incorrect?