What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

[Guest]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Scrambles - I don't give a f**k about the past or future price of oil, or whether your "financialized origins of the petroleum price" will ever be born out. I only observe that you have a rather large head - like one of those infants with hydrocephalus, with the very small bodies and the enlarged craniums? I don't trust your financial advice, nor the roots underpinning your world financial view, which is chock full of Bilderberger crapola. If I wanted to engage in elaborate games of irony with you I could do so all day, but I'm too dis-enamoured of your perennial "cuteness".

Lukester, we all know your blood pressure is too raised and usually this results in extremely valuable contributions well in excess of 5000 words. First, I would suggest that if you want to contribute more to the value provided by the Itulip select area you should post there your extremely concise and very logical posts only as subscriber content. This would be an extra incentive for people to rush to get a membership.

One of the things that makes me still ponder if I should get a subscription is that the select content would be way too elevated for my limited level of understanding and I would feel embarrassed for not being able to make any sense out of smart people like you are saying. I prefer to stay in the 'peanut gallery' area and participate in low level debates with other non-subscribers, or even with other subscribers who are aware of their own limited intellect because they keep searching for the true cause of oil price increases in monetary phenomenons (Check the visitor messages here). Of course you are always right and Finster has no clue what is he talking about. We all understand that,

Frankly Lukester the idea of bumping all the time in debates with you and metalman in the concentrated/select subscriber area gives me shivers.

@ CharlesTMungerFan: I appreciate your initial suggestion of serving a Take down and Put Back provision notice, but I believe this would have been too extreme. I'm sure that EJ will correct soon this overzealous and miguided content moderation, and bring swiftly things back to the high standards we are used to and expect from iTulip.


sishya, thanks, I'm flattered. I just try to do my best to increase the value of the iTulip content. If a few select members find my posts useful or entertaining in their ignorance, that is increased value.

(PS Lukester, would you please be so king to not divert/troll this thread with Lukester's grudge against $#*, the Peak Oil Blasphemer? Can you open please another thread focused on your insights about the real causes of me not paying a subscription? Wouldn't be great if you open this thread in the Select area?)

[Supercilious]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Scrambles - I don't give a fuck about the past or future price of oil, or whether your "financialized origins of the petroleum price" will ever be born out. I only observe that you have a rather large head - like one of those infants with hydrocephalus, with the very small bodies and the enlarged craniums? I don't trust your financial advice, nor the roots underpinning your world financial view, which is chock full of Bilderberger crapola. If I wanted to engage in elaborate games of irony with you I could do so all day, but I'm too dis-enamoured of your perennial "cuteness".

That was an intellectual "tour de force" Lukester. Very well argumented as usual. I'm sure Fred will grab immediately this post and and put it in the Select area ....

[Guest]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

That was an intellectual "tour de force" Lukester. ....

Yes, give my regards to Queen Elizabeth at the next Bilderberger board meeting you'll be attentively monitoring, $#*. And stow the rest of the attempts at ironic flatulence.

[LargoWinch]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Given the high quality and entertaining nature of the discussion here, I suggest this thread be moved to the subscribers' area. ;)

[BrianL]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

This turned into more of a meandering post than intended. I apologize in advance.

Lukester, with all due respect (and I mean that sincerely), your passion for this site and the great people running it can be a bit overwhelming. It can divide people by making them dig in their heels and defend their positions.

One of the strengths of this community is the respect for differing views and ideas between participants and the continued respect the players have for one another.

Attacking those who aren't yet subscribers is counter productive. Some may prefer not to subscribe for philosophical reasons. Others may only have a few thousand in savings, making $200 a more significant investment. Others may simply have other sources they prefer. In any case, your presentation is frankly more of a turnoff to than encouragement to give subscription a shot.

I won't get in to what goes into the subscriber area and what doesn't. Those running the site can do so as they see fit. I understand the challenge in running presenting value to two separate groups of people.

Personally, my momentum as an investor is too low to really take advantage of the calls made here. It isn't that I don't believe them - I am just generally paranoid to make any substantial swings. I know this is a macro site and not a traders place, but even acting on the macro stuff takes more market knowledge and understanding than most have.

A random thought - perhaps another value add for subscribers would be something of a tutorial/outline for people starting with no investing experience beyond 'money goes to my 401k' on how to take advantage of the calls. While I'm sure this is beyond basic for most, it would provide additional value to those on the fence when it comes to subscribing.

[Sharky]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Totting up the cost of "running servers for a much larger community elsewhere" and trying to get a fix on iTulip's value from the "server costs"?

Sorry, it looks like I did not communicate my point clearly. The value of the content, the cost to run the site and the cost to produce the content are all different.

I didn't intend to equate server costs to the value of the content. I was responding to your earlier comment about the "cost of keeping this entire website going." I can't speak for iTulip, but for most forums on the web, running the servers tends to be their main cost.

Let me try again: I'm am happy to pay for quality content, to help compensate the author for their time and to reflect the value of that content. I am happy to contribute to the costs of operating the infrastructure used by the site. But I am not happy about paying to segregate and therefore devalue discussion. Unfortunately, the fee structure here is oriented toward the latter approach and not the former.

I *regularly* spend north of $3,000 a year on various newsletters, to protect maybe a $270K of investments. That's nudging over 1%.

1% seems like a lot to me. Based on the graph frequently shown on iTulip, long-term stock market returns are only 1.65%....

[Guest]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Sorry, it looks like I did not communicate my point clearly. ... Let me try again: I'm am happy to pay for quality content, to help compensate the author for their time ... ....

Guy - you are getting this caliber of market analysis *dirt cheap*. Take it from the guy who foolishly spends $3K a year on *other* market intelligence. This is like the guy who has just climbed into the life-boat off the sinking Titanic, complaining long and sourly about the hard quality of his seat, or the meagre quality of his rations on the lifeboat. There is a disconnect at work here - the lifeboat passenger does not realize how much shoddier his alternatives would have been. I've been a guest on many other "lifeboats", and I assure you this is a Rolls Royce of a ride, in comparison. The breadth of coverage on the macro environment, the sobriety of the postures recommended (for your "serious" family money during one of the worst global crises in 100 years, not for $#*'s gaudy faux diamonds lying in the beach sand), and most of all for the total price charged for this service - put it all together, and it is comparatively speaking - d ** i ** r ** t ** ___ c ** h ** e ** a ** p. I've actually spent a good deal more money elsewhere, for years during this market turmoil, and I'm here to assure you of that. Maybe it behooves some of the iTulip "value concerned" restless citizens to turn into nomads for a year or two, and sort of wander around and try spending some of their precious b0nars elsewhere, so that they can synthesize their own conclusions at the end of that trajectory. As it is, you are being offered my conclusion, and I've peeled off maybe $6K over the past four or five years in investment advisories. This conversation's preoccupations about "getting real value" is woefully uninformed.

I don't have any time for lolling around on other "free forums" while garnering wise estimations of their comparative value. I go straight to the "market intelligence for sale" segment, and evaluate those guys who are able to charge for their intelligence, and retain their customers. I could care less about all the other free public forums where people "share their priceless market intel". The public pages here are great. They are often livelier indeed than the private pages. So what? Ask yourself what the net caliber of the entire iTulip enterprise is, compared to other things you spend $200 on.

[FRED]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

We have restored the thread to News here: Oil

Apologies to due_indigence.

Moving a non-subscriber thread to the subscriber area was not the right thing to do. We have done it twice, but will not do it again.

We are always trying to find the right balance. Thank you all for your comments.

[FRED]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

No. It would be more elegant to not move someone elses thread. Previously Fred had moved one of my threads. It does hurt a little.

Our apologies to you as well.

[Supercilious]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Now, hopefully with Lukester's concerns alleviated, can we please return to the core of this subject.

My questions for Fred are:

a)If I write another message on the subject of the best ways of investing in oil, would that message be deleted or the thread locked because it will be an infringement of an imposed intellectual monopoly on a subject that will be soon encompassed in a new iTulip Select content thesis?

b) If I put my ideas somewhere on the internet in a public access page (such as a personal blog, or a personal webpage) and link that page/blog here on iTulip, would that link to publicly available information be censored in order to maintain the iTulip monopoly on a discussion encompassed in a future iTulip thesis?

c) If the answers to a) and b) is negative then why to keep the "Oil" thread copy in the free area locked.

d) If the answers to a) and b) is affirmative wouldn't that be equivalent to censorship of publicy available information for iTulipers in order to create an incentive for buying membership? Can the non-paying members be provided with a list of subjects that will be censored and cannot be freely debated?

[Sharky]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Guy - you are getting this caliber of market analysis *dirt cheap*.

Since I'm not paying anything at the moment, that's certainly true.

There is a disconnect at work here

To extend your analogy: I am already on the lifeboat, and believe me, I appreciate it's value even though I didn't have to pay for it. Now someone is asking me if I'd like to pay $200 to sit in the front, where I'm not surrounded by the "asshats," and where I might pick up some tips about where the boat is going. But I like the so-called asshats, and some of them are actually entertaining and well-informed. I don't really see the value in moving.

[Guest]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Sharky - you've got a fine seat in the lifeboat as a freeby. Show a little grace then in distinguishing the caliber of the freeby contributors from the lifeboat owner. Tell me what other free communities you've joined that provided you with one jot the market intelligence you've soaked up here, for free. I was a free member here (leveling a lot of criticism at iTulip too, during that time) for more than 18 months before finally paying in. I have no idea whether the premium section is super special or not. I only know that the net intelligence value of the entire enterprise renders the question somewhat moot. Frankly, I don't even much care whether someone wants to pay EJ or not. Just don't tell me that $#* investment recommendations have the sobriety or groundedness of EJ's. If $#*'s recos are emblematic of the astute market intelligence one can glean for free at other free finance/econ portals (e.g. tickerforum) then I'll pass, as I frankly find it all gadfly advice.

Since I'm not paying anything at the moment, that's certainly true.



To extend your analogy: I am already on the lifeboat, and believe me, I appreciate it's value even though I didn't have to pay for it. Now someone is asking me if I'd like to pay $200 to sit in the front, where I'm not surrounded by the "asshats," and where I might pick up some tips about where the boat is going. But I like the so-called asshats, and some of them are actually entertaining and well-informed. I don't really see the value in moving.

[*T*]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

I'm with you on this one. Unless EJ or FRED is adding value, I don't understand the rationale for moving non-subscriber threads into the subscriber area.

+1

iTulip's value is from:

1) the staff contributions (EJ, FRED etc.)

2) the community

I will pay for 1 gladly but not 2. Why should we pay for what we create?

To my surprise I find myself agreeing with $#!@>

[LargoWinch]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

To extend your analogy: I am already on the lifeboat, and believe me, I appreciate it's value even though I didn't have to pay for it. Now someone is asking me if I'd like to pay $200 to sit in the front, where I'm not surrounded by the "asshats," and where I might pick up some tips about where the boat is going. But I like the so-called asshats, and some of them are actually entertaining and well-informed. I don't really see the value in moving.

Sharky, I started looking for investment advice after the bursting of the NASDAQ bubble. Like so many "common investors", I got badly burned then, but in the process, I realized that something was amiss with the whole game.

Hence, I started looking for advice and I realized that good and honest advice cost money. I view this as the cost of being in "the business of investing". Obviously, like everything else, value can sometimes, if not often, be questionable.

Having said that, I have been a subscriber since 2000 of several investment letters some of which costs a lot more than iTulip (some paid by my employer and some shared with friends).

Today, I would recommend to dear friends and family and in a heartbeat only two source of investment information: iTulip and the GloomBoomDoom report from Marc Faber.


Edit: Not so long ago, I was prepared to pay $US 50,000 of my hard-earned money, simply to pay tuition (not including other expenses) for a MSc. in Financial Engineering. I am glad I choose not to pursue this path. So the way I see it, I can now afford 250 years of iTulip!

[*T*]

Re: What happened to "Favorite ways of trading long oil"?

Doubtless an elegantly conservative piece of investing advice [not] - which i would not approach with a barge-pole even with my wildly speculative money. It looks gaudy, like a wet piece of red glass lying on the beach, which the ocean waves have just washed over - looks like a shining, exotic ruby stone, almost - but when you deploy money into it you later recognize the risk-reward in this as a bonafide investing strategy is long on flashiness, and short on risk-reward. This is trademark $#*. I see it has you completely dazzled Shishya. Why is this brilliant market analyst struggling with himself over a $200 subscription here? Maybe ithat represents a large commitment, eh?

Totally besides the point.

The question is whether threads started as public by non subscribers should stay as such.