Iraq Irony

[Finster]

October 11, 2000

The Second Gore-Bush Presidential Debate

http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2000b.html

Emphasis added. Anyone else detect a note of irony here?

…

MODERATOR: Sure, absolutely, sure. Somalia.

BUSH: Started off as a humanitarian mission and it changed into a nation-building mission, and that's where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed. And as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. I think our troops ought to be used to help overthrow the dictator when it's in our best interests. But in this case it was a nation-building exercise, and same with Haiti. I wouldn't have supported either.

…

MODERATOR: So what would you say, Governor, that somebody would say hey wait a minute, why not Africa, I mean why the Middle East, why the Balkans, but not Africa, when 600,000 people's lives are at risk?

BUSH: Well, I understand, and Africa is important. And we've got to do a lot of work in Africa to promote democracy and trade, and there are some -- Vice President mentioned Nigeria is a fledgling democracy. We have to work with Nigeria. That's an important continent. But there's got to be priorities, and Middle East is a priority for a lot of reasons, as is Europe and the Far East, our own hemisphere. And those are my four top priorities should I be the president, not to say we won't be engaged nor work hard to get other nations to come together to prevent atrocity. I thought the best example of a way to handle the situation was East Timor when we provided logistical support to the Australians, support that only we can provide. I thought that was a good model. But we can't be all things to all people in the world, Jim. And I think that's where maybe the vice president and I begin to have some differences. I'm worried about overcommitting our military around the world. I want to be judicious in its use. You mentioned Haiti. I wouldn't have sent troops to Haiti. I didn't think it was a mission worthwhile. It was a nation building mission, and it was not very successful. It cost us billions, a couple billions of dollars, and I'm not so sure democracy is any better off in Haiti than it was before.

…

MODERATOR: The use of the military, there -- some people are now suggesting that if you don't want to use the military to maintain the peace, to do the civil thing, is it time to consider a civil force of some kind that comes in after the military that builds nations or all of that? Is that on your radar screen?

BUSH: I don't think so. I think what we need to do is convince people who live in the lands they live in to build the nations. Maybe I'm missing something here. I mean, we're going to have kind of a nation building core from America? Absolutely not. Our military is meant to fight and win war. That's what it's meant to do. And when it gets overextended, morale drops. I strongly believe we need to have a military presence in the peninsula, not only to keep the peace in the peninsula, but to keep regional stability. And I strongly believe we need to keep a presence in NATO, but I'm going to be judicious as to how to use the military. It needs to be in our vital interest, the mission needs to be clear, and the extra strategy obvious.

…

[DemonD]

Re: Iraq Irony

Saw an old episode of SNL last night. The quote was something like:

"And in a reversal of fate, the Iraq war has caused a regime change in America." (referring to the elections in november)

[jk]

Re: Iraq Irony

that debate was before god told bush that he had been elected to lead the nation against terrorists and evil-doers. having god talk to you will change your mind about little things like military policy.

[Finster]

Re: Iraq Irony

that debate was before god told bush that he had been elected to lead the nation against terrorists and evil-doers. having god talk to you will change your mind about little things like military policy.

But whatever you do, when God talks to you, you need to keep listening until he gets past the part about a clear mission and exit strategy...

[LargoWinch]

Re: Iraq Irony

But whatever you do, when God talks to you, you need to keep listening until he gets past the part about a clear mission and exit strategy...

Here is how countries go bankrupt on foreign military venture (Maginot line anyone?):

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


Part 4:


Part 5:


Part 6:

[Spartacus]

Re: Iraq Irony

God did give Bush an exit strategy, remember? - the soldiers would leave after a week, having established democracy,
walking out barefoot on a carpet of rose petals
all festooned with garlands put around their necks by the beautiful women
(and Americans could tel they're beautiful because they've removed the veil, just for FOX news)

But whatever you do, when God talks to you, you need to keep listening until he gets past the part about a clear mission and exit strategy...

[we_are_toast]

Re: Iraq Irony

Anyone else detect a note of irony here?

Don't confuse irony with dishonesty, deceit, and hypocrisy.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Iraq Irony

On the subject of Iraq, this response from Bush in the third Gore debate was in hindsight the most revealing:

MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: What would you make -- what would make you the best candidate in office during the Middle East crisis?

BUSH: I've been a leader. I've been a person who has to set a clear vision and convince people to follow. I've got a strategy for the Middle East. And first let me say that our nation now needs to speak with one voice during this time, and I applaud the president for working hard to diffuse tensions. Our nation needs to be credible and strong. When we say we're somebody's friend, everybody has got to believe it. Israel is our friend and we'll stand by Israel. We need to reach out to modern Arab nations as well. To build coalitions to keep the peace. I also need -- the next leader needs to be patient. We can't put the Middle East peace process on our timetable. It's got to be on the timetable of the people that we're trying to bring to the peace table. We can't dictate the terms of peace, which means that you have to be steady. You can't worry about polls or focus groups. You've got to have a clear vision. That's what a leader does. A leader also understands that the United States must be strong to keep the peace. Saddam Hussein still is a threat in the Middle East. Our coalition against Saddam is unraveling. Sanctions are loosened. The man who may be developing weapons of mass destruction, we don't know because inspectors aren't in. So to answer your question, it requires a clear vision, a willingness to stand by our friends, and the credibility for people both friend and foe to understand when America says something, we mean it.

The question was asked about Israel. Bush revealed the gameplan for Iraq.

[Chomsky]

Re: Iraq Irony

The gameplan that was blindingly obvious to anyone following the election. The night Bush was elected I turned to my wife and said, "well, we're going to attack Iraq now. Done deal."

[Slimprofits]

Re: Iraq Irony

The gameplan that was blindingly obvious to anyone following the election. The night Bush was elected I turned to my wife and said, "well, we're going to attack Iraq now. Done deal."

Did you turn around and invest in the various humvee manufacturers on 11/5/00 or is blood money not your thing?

[Chomsky]

Re: Iraq Irony



I had nothing to invest at that time, but had I it might have gone to tech stocks - I was clueless about that aspect of life then.