The American Civil war...Version 2 !

[mercerbear]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

Alas, I disagree that there will be conflict. Only once people are unable to buy food, heat their homes, and so forth will there will be any form of civil dissent on a wide scale.

Ok, let me give you a hypothetical then...

Feinstein, Schumer and the rest of the anti-second amendment gang use this opportunity, with Obama being anti-gun, to ban guns, or certain types guns of guns like "assault rifles."

The government dispatches the national guard to go home-to-home in search of these firearms, which is easier now that many guns have to be registered. This is no longer a training drill, the army is now policing society and infringing the Constitution in numerous ways.

You don't think civilians would stand up for themselves and their civil liberties in a situation like this? If so, I hope you are wrong.

[mercerbear]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

i cant tell whether this story or some of the responses here are real.

i get the feeling that they are...if so this is so unbelieveable i cant even fathom it

we have legislated away more freedoms than i ever thought a nation would do, but to take it all the way to military preparing to search and arrest citizens is so incredible that it simply defies belief.

how could any soldier participate in such a drill? how could any citizen allow even the discussion of such a possibility? how could any government official contemplate such a thing?

the very idea is completely antithetical to the entire concept of the united states.

Unfortunately, this is VERY real. The soul of our country hangs in the balance. Some of us are willing to submit to government control over our lives and some of us will fight for freedom at any cost. It's not in my heart to live as a slave.

As for the soldiers, some will do as they have been trained and follow orders. Others will think for themselves and not turn their guns on their countrymen. That's the way I see it going.

[Yaowarat]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

Ok, let me give you a hypothetical then...

Feinstein, Schumer and the rest of the anti-second amendment gang use this opportunity, with Obama being anti-gun, to ban guns, or certain types guns of guns like "assault rifles."

The government dispatches the national guard to go home-to-home in search of these firearms, which is easier now that many guns have to be registered. This is no longer a training drill, the army is now policing society and infringing the Constitution in numerous ways.

You don't think civilians would stand up for themselves and their civil liberties in a situation like this? If so, I hope you are wrong.

Well, in such a scenario like yours, yes. They probably would stand up; But throw a few wild cards in... say "Evil Arabs" or other "unsavories" are using our freedoms ( second amendment ) against us... stage a few more false flags, ramp-up the fear media... and the government-warfare-crime-state shall do what they will with the sheeple (i.e. middle class ).

The state will do WHATEVER it needs to do - so that it survives. I think we've seen this in the recent "banker salvation acts" from the "people's house" in Washington.

But hey, they aren't perfect, and unexpected things do happen.

[mercerbear]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

Well, in such a scenario like yours, yes. They probably would stand up; But throw a few wild cards in... say "Evil Arabs" or other "unsavories" are using our freedoms ( second amendment ) against us... stage a few more false flags, ramp-up the fear media... and the government-warfare-crime-state shall do what they will with the sheeple (i.e. middle class ).

The state will do WHATEVER it needs to do - so that it survives. I think we've seen this in the recent "banker salvation acts" from the "people's house" in Washington.

But hey, they aren't perfect, and unexpected things do happen.

These are exactly the tactics government uses through the media to leverage perceived threats into legislation and executive action. Have you heard of a BBC documentary called, "The Power of Nightmares?" It talks about the way government takes our freedoms by providing us things to fear and then telling us that they can save us if we give up certain freedoms. Example #1, using 9/11 to leverage the atrocity known as The "Patriot" Act.

[cjppjc]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

Ok, let me give you a hypothetical then...

Feinstein, Schumer and the rest of the anti-second amendment gang use this opportunity, with Obama being anti-gun, to ban guns, or certain types guns of guns like "assault rifles."

The government dispatches the national guard to go home-to-home in search of these firearms, which is easier now that many guns have to be registered. This is no longer a training drill, the army is now policing society and infringing the Constitution in numerous ways.

You don't think civilians would stand up for themselves and their civil liberties in a situation like this? If so, I hope you are wrong.

Lots of time involved. Don't see it happening.



Main outcome measure: Responses to questions regarding firearm ownership, the number and types of guns owned, and motivations for ownership. Results: 38% of households and 26% of individuals reported owning at least one firearm. This corresponds to 42 million US households with firearms, and 57 million adult gun owners. 64% of gun owners or 16% of American adults reported owning at least one handgun. Long guns represent 60% of the privately held gun stock. Almost half (48%) of all individual gun owners reported owning 4 firearms. Men more often reported firearm ownership, with 45% stating that they personally owned at least one firearm, compared with 11% for women.

[mercerbear]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

Lots of time involved. Don't see it happening.

You don't think the government would try to confiscate or you think people would roll over?

[cjppjc]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

You don't think the government would try to confiscate or you think people would roll over?

Both actually. I think the logistics involved in going into so many American residences is prohibitive.
Having said that I agree with your previous thoughts that if it did happen. Some people will roll over. Some people will fight. Some troops will disobey. Some troops will follow orders.
The bad news is I don't think to many members of the MSM are gun owners.(Maybe I'm wrong.) So no outrage on the tele if it should transpire.

[mercerbear]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

Both actually. I think the logistics involved in going into so many American residences is prohibitive.
Having said that I agree with your previous thoughts that if it did happen. Some people will roll over. Some people will fight. Some troops will disobey. Some troops will follow orders.
The bad news is I don't think to many members of the MSM are gun owners.(Maybe I'm wrong.) So no outrage on the tele if it should transpire.

I agree with you that the logistics of actually going through every household would be prohibitive. I think the tactic employed would be the same as in England. The government outlawed firearms and people were asked to voluntarily turn over their firearms for destruction. All those who didn't obey became felons. The government would be counting on the average person's fear of not going along with the status quo to do the brunt of the collection work.

The battle lines are clearly drawn at that point. Those who made the decision to keep their firearms would be openly protesting the government mandate to disarm. This is where the army could be called into the equation to manual disarm the "criminals." If you kept your guns, it's now time to go all in or fold.

After a few skirmishes occur, think hundreds of Waco type incidents where the civilians are actually fighting back, the MSM would be all over it and obviously, siding with government and demonizing the citizens who stuck up for civil liberty.

At this point, I have no idea which way things would go. It really depends on whether middle America wakes up to the reality that they have become subjects or remain sedated.

I am not saying that any of these events are certainty. What I am saying is that I think this is the way things will go if the feds go after the 2nd Amendment.

[cjppjc]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

I agree with you that the logistics of actually going through every household would be prohibitive. I think the tactic employed would be the same as in England. The government outlawed firearms and people were asked to voluntarily turn over their firearms for destruction. All those who didn't obey became felons. The government would be counting on the average person's fear of not going along with the status quo to do the brunt of the collection work.

The battle lines are clearly drawn at that point. Those who made the decision to keep their firearms would be openly protesting the government mandate to disarm. This is where the army could be called into the equation to manual disarm the "criminals." If you kept your guns, it's now time to go all in or fold.

After a few skirmishes occur, think hundreds of Waco type incidents where the civilians are actually fighting back, the MSM would be all over it and obviously, siding with government and demonizing the citizens who stuck up for civil liberty.

At this point, I have no idea which way things would go. It really depends on whether middle America wakes up to the reality that they have become subjects or remain sedated.

I am not saying that any of these events are certainty. What I am saying is that I think this is the way things will go if the feds go after the 2nd Amendment.

I can see your theory of events. I give it a low probability. Mostly because I don't believe that many people will turn their guns over. So we are back to logistics.

[mercerbear]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

I can see your theory of events. I give it a low probability. Mostly because I don't believe that many people will turn their guns over. So we are back to logistics.

I agree, low probability. I think the government knows better than to try it. Better to turn the people into economic slaves which, obviously, is much easier to get away with.

[Prazak]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

You guys sound a lot like the "black helicopters" crowd from the 90s. Calm down. Nobody's planning to confiscate anyone's guns. Sheesh.

[mercerbear]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

You guys sound a lot like the "black helicopters" crowd from the 90s. Calm down. Nobody's planning to confiscate anyone's guns. Sheesh.

Thanks, it's comforting to be reassured by someone so high up in the political hierarchy who obviously knows exactly what's going on. :rolleyes:

[D-Mack]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

You guys sound a lot like the "black helicopters" crowd from the 90s. Calm down. Nobody's planning to confiscate anyone's guns. Sheesh.

It seems to be a long transformation process, whether intentional or not. (COG, NORTHCOM...)

Congress has nothing to to say and they can be happy if they get a copy of the bills special interest creates. Ron Paul

[Prazak]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

Thanks, it's comforting to be reassured by someone so high up in the political hierarchy who obviously knows exactly what's going on. :rolleyes:

Actually, y'all are the ones purporting to know of the existence of such goings on.

But . . . I didn't need to be at the UN Secretariat to know there were no black helicopters preparing to take control of NYC; I don't need to be on the bridge of a Romulan Starship to know there's no plan to invade Earth; and I don't need to be sitting outside the Oval Office to know there's no plan to confiscate American guns. It's simply ludicrous.

Secrets don't last long in DC. And the Obama administration is barely staffed -- without even having a Deputy Secretary for International Affairs at Treasury in the midst of a global financial meltdown. You really think in 30 days they've formulated a diabolical confiscation plan, managed to keep it a secret, and are "testing the waters" now?

Okeedokee. Whatever.

[mercerbear]

Re: The American Civil war...Version 2 !

Secrets don't last long in DC. And the Obama administration is barely staffed -- without even having a Deputy Secretary for International Affairs at Treasury in the midst of a global financial meltdown. You really think in 30 days they've formulated a diabolical confiscation plan, managed to keep it a secret, and are "testing the waters" now?

Okeedokee. Whatever.

You have obviously simplified very complicated political issues that did not begin with the inauguration of a new president 30 days ago. It is always fun to discuss complex topics with people who make flippant remarks like, "Okeedokee. Whatever." Thank you for your logically supported arguments and references to Star Trek. It was fun. ;)