Speaking of 'Capture': 401Ks

[c1ue]

I attempted to switch out of the last vestige of my corporate life: the last bits of 401K not moved into a self directed IRA.

Well, I discovered that because I'm only 75% vested in my corporate match, I can't move ANY of it out of the basic company options.

And what were these options (and their performance last year)?

Average annualized total return						Collapse all Expand all
Investment choice	As of date	3 mos*	1 yr	3 yr	5 yr	10 yr	Life	Inception date	Expense ratios provided are the Funds' total annual operating expense ratios, gross of any fee waivers or expense reimbursements.	Gross expense ratio %
JPMorgan Prime Money Market-Capital								02/22/2005		0.00
	12/31/2008	0.60	2.95	4.40	N/A	N/A	4.16
PIMCO Total Return-Inst								05/11/1987		0.52
	12/31/2008	5.01	4.87	5.96	5.17	6.25	8.19
	11/30/2008	-2.08	1.40	4.98	4.63	5.91	8.04
	10/31/2008	-3.08	1.71	4.41	4.26	5.74	7.97
Vanguard Institutional Index								07/31/1990		0.05
	12/31/2008	-21.91	-36.95	-8.35	-2.18	-1.35	7.42
	11/30/2008	-29.61	-38.06	-8.66	-1.39	-0.90	7.40
	10/31/2008	-23.08	-36.07	-5.21	0.26	0.43	7.87
JPMorgan SmartRetirement Income-C10								01/04/2006		0.50
	12/31/2008	-8.73	-16.21	N/A	N/A	N/A	-1.23
	11/30/2008	-14.61	-17.92	N/A	N/A	N/A	-1.94
	10/31/2008	-12.38	-16.78	N/A	N/A	N/A	-1.13
JPMorgan SmartRetirement 2010-C10								08/01/2005		0.56
	12/31/2008	-10.95	-20.13	-1.80	N/A	N/A	-1.12
	11/30/2008	-17.84	-22.14	-2.18	N/A	N/A	-1.85
	10/31/2008	-15.17	-20.90	-0.68	N/A	N/A	-0.93
JPMorgan SmartRetirement 2015-C10								08/23/2005		0.67
	12/31/2008	-13.33	-24.44	-2.85	N/A	N/A	-2.17
	11/30/2008	-21.53	-26.86	-3.43	N/A	N/A	-3.12
	10/31/2008	-18.17	-25.45	-1.43	N/A	N/A	-1.89
JPMorgan SmartRetirement 2020-C10								08/01/2005		0.72
	12/31/2008	-15.51	-27.81	-3.50	N/A	N/A	-2.35
	11/30/2008	-24.14	-30.31	-4.06	N/A	N/A	-3.32
	10/31/2008	-20.10	-28.56	-1.50	N/A	N/A	-1.80
JPMorgan SmartRetirement 2030-C10								08/01/2005		0.82
	12/31/2008	-19.10	-33.56	-5.46	N/A	N/A	-4.02
	11/30/2008	-28.55	-36.07	-6.07	N/A	N/A	-5.08
	10/31/2008	-23.42	-33.93	-2.81	N/A	N/A	-3.11
JPMorgan SmartRetirement 2040-C10								08/01/2005		0.85
	12/31/2008	-19.65	-34.55	-5.79	N/A	N/A	-4.34
	11/30/2008	-29.29	-37.13	-6.42	N/A	N/A	-5.44
	10/31/2008	-24.10	-34.81	-3.10	N/A	N/A	-3.40
TimesSquare Mid Cap Growth-Inst								03/04/2005		1.09
	12/31/2008	-20.98	-33.91	-5.11	N/A	N/A	-1.34
	11/30/2008	-31.81	-35.49	-5.85	N/A	N/A	-2.14
	10/31/2008	-25.02	-33.48	-1.72	N/A	N/A	-0.17
Janus Advisor Perkins Mid Cap Value-I								11/28/2005		0.66
	12/31/2008	-19.91	-27.06	-3.06	N/A	N/A	-2.56
	11/30/2008	-29.02	-29.60	-3.67	N/A	N/A	-3.58
	10/31/2008	-23.73	-28.75	N/A	N/A	N/A	-2.13
Lord Abbett Affiliated-I								03/27/1998		0.46
	12/31/2008	-20.53	-36.94	-8.17	-1.93	1.97	2.17
	11/30/2008	-27.02	-39.16	-8.68	-1.25	2.03	1.94
	10/31/2008	-18.89	-35.50	-4.55	1.01	3.61	2.92
TCM Small Cap Growth Fund								10/01/2004		0.93
	12/31/2008	-27.29	-43.24	-7.74	N/A	N/A	1.50
	11/30/2008	-38.82	-44.96	-8.76	N/A	N/A	0.48
	10/31/2008	-30.79	-42.05	-3.48	N/A	N/A	3.40
Touchstone Diversified Small Cap Value Z								02/28/1996		1.45
	12/31/2008	-21.97	-25.49	-5.77	0.71	8.11	9.36
	11/30/2008	-29.97	-29.58	-7.48	0.47	7.81	8.99
	10/31/2008	-19.83	-27.58	-3.25	3.52	9.69	9.92
Delaware US Growth-Inst								02/03/1994		0.83
	12/31/2008	-22.31	-43.51	-13.11	-5.02	-3.88	3.48
	11/30/2008	-34.77	-44.43	-13.73	-4.88	-2.87	3.39
	10/31/2008	-26.32	-40.23	-9.30	-2.54	-1.25	4.14
William Blair International Growth-Inst								10/01/1999		1.09
	12/31/2008	-26.47	-52.17	-11.24	0.27	N/A	3.61
Columbia International Value Z								12/27/1995		1.09
	12/31/2008	-16.05	-35.47	-3.88	4.07	7.74	9.52
	11/30/2008	-30.83	-42.92	-5.51	3.48	6.88	8.79
	10/31/2008	-28.60	-40.47	-3.03	5.42	7.96	9.33

GRRRRRR

My personal rate of return? In my Schwab self directed: 11% compounded for the last 7 years (since started) And this was with the entire balance in money markets for the first 3 years.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Speaking of 'Capture': 401Ks

All things considered, those are not terrible losses compared to what some funds have done. Nice table too.

[c1ue]

Re: Speaking of 'Capture': 401Ks

Jim,

What you might not have noticed is how many of the funds are 'new'.

More than half less than 5 years duration.

A perfect example of 'survivor bias' in industry statistics.

While these are supposedly better than DJI or S & P 500, there are pathetic compared to what I've done myself.

I resent not being able to transfer my 401K company match - especially as I have been out of the company for going on 2.5 years - and being locked into this pathetic collection of choices.

[swgprop]

Re: Speaking of 'Capture': 401Ks

I resent not being able to transfer my 401K company match - especially as I have been out of the company for going on 2.5 years - and being locked into this pathetic collection of choices.

I feel your pain. I was lucky (smart?) enough to transfer two prior 401K accounts into self directed IRAs. But my current employers 401K options are much like like yours. Quite irritating that there isn't simply an option to go to a straight MM account. Or cash in a mattress for that matter.

[phirang]

Re: Speaking of 'Capture': 401Ks

401k's are another tax on the working man to prop up US capital markets and help give the pigmen liquidity.

[FRED]

Re: Speaking of 'Capture': 401Ks

iTulip has been warning readers to get out of their 401Ks since April 1999.


The Sheeple Shall be Shorn
Posted April 1999

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401K and Mutual Fund Investors Await their Fate on Wall Street

(Original image from www.louisboston.com)

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Definitions

sheeple n: investors comprised of individuals each of whom makes investment decisions based on the observed actions of the other members of the herd : sheep-like as a : unable to make rational investment decisions based on personal observations that lead to actions that contradict the actions of the herd b : uncritical of information inputs from those who seek to profit, such as financial services companies c : in for a big surprise panic n 1 : a sudden overpowering fright; esp : a sudden unreasoning terror often accompanied by mass flight 2 : a sudden widespread fright concerning financial affairs and resulting in a depression of values caused by violent measures for protection of securites or other property (Webster's Seventh Collegiate Dictionary)

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[karim0028]

Re: Speaking of 'Capture': 401Ks

Yup, same thing happened to me, tried to go into cash last year and they told me that i couldnt touch it bc i didnt match my employers contribution... All of it had to stay in corporate stock the only time i could touch it was if i lef the company....

The most idiotic retirement planning system i have ever seen.. My corporate stock is down like 50% and i couldnt do a damn thing to stop it even though i knew exactly what to do...

[World Traveler]

Brightscope.com: Free Scoring on 401K Plans

Recently launched website. I read a recent article about, so I decided to check it out. I input name of the company I just retired from to see if they were reasonably good, and I do agree with the score they gave my former employer.

They also provide a count on number of employees in plan, total holdings, average account value, and break out holdings by type and %. Also accurate for company where I worked. It's a very interesting site.

http://www.brightscope.com/