Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

Yes Jim. It will run much faster under Linux, with no crashes, and it will be perfectly safe (you don't have to worry about viruses and trojans). The equivalent programs though have different names though, but they look very similar with respect to function and commands and program layout.
If you know how to use MS Word you will have no problem to use Open Office Word Processor, it looks and feels the same but you have no crashes and no documents lost.

Thank you, Symbols, for your insight and time to explain all that. I've used computers getting on towards 30 years and probably have been knowing less about them as every day passed. Reading your note encourages me to try Linux, but then we_are_toast's note lessens my enthusiasm, not implying that one of you is right or wrong.

I have screwed away a lot of time (over decades) (and don't even think of adding up the money from when computers cost $3K) getting to where I am now, and what I have now works well enough for me to rather much keep down frustrations and accomplish what I am needing to accomplish with my computer which is 93% directed to dealing with investments and 5% reading iTulip.

To GRG regarding his frustrations and Raja's reply, I have to agree with Raja, on the basis of much less insight no doubt, that my XP on two laptops seldom crashes to the extent I have to stop and reboot it. My IE 7 occasionally gets gimpy and I have to close it to get Java to run bigcharts.com correctly, but that is no big bother, just a nuisance.

Recently, something got screwed up in the registry of my usual laptop that made Excel crash repeatedly, and despite all my efforts I ended up paying a Microsoft support fee of $35 for a really decent guy in India to take everything to do with Excel out of the registry and then reinstall Excel, which took 40 minutes or less. Once the registry was cleared, it has been fine; however, getting to the point of finally doing what was done was a real pain in the ass, i.e. I got kicked around Bombay for some hours over a week before getting connected with a guy who knew WTF to do (actually, I finally decided WTF I thought was needed, and he did it, and it worked)

After that, sort of "for fun," I cloned my harddrive, and reinstalled XP and service packs and just the programs I must use (I had added and added stuff to the original XP installation for over three years). Since doing that, my laptop functions nearly as perfectly as I can imagine. What allowed me to do that was having another laptop that was good enough to allow me to continue my day-to-day needs and not to be totally "down" or rushed while doing the reinstallation. Doing the reinstallation of XP was well worth it for me.

Again, thank you, guys, for your inputs.

[Supercilious]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

Thank you, Symbols, for your insight and time to explain all that. I've used computers getting on towards 30 years and probably have been knowing less about them as every day passed. Reading your note encourages me to try Linux, but then we_are_toast's note lessens my enthusiasm, not implying that one of you is right or wrong.

Jim, everybody who has a linux machine will have a god chuckle reading what we_are_toast is saying. Why don't you get a Live CD from Ubuntu, and give it a try. You don't like it, you just get out the CD and restart your computer. Actually, we_are_toast should do the same thing before writing stuff like this:

" Some of the files from OpenOffice and Microsoft applications will not be compatible"
I would be very curious myself to find out what are the files not compatible? Everything a normal user needs is compatible.

"drivers for new hardware will not be available"
that is highly unlikely. The simplest test is is to use a Live CD to find out for yourself if any of your hardware is not recognized.


"and there won't be nearly the number of applications available for linux."
this is outright funny

"Linux systems can be attacked and corrupted by people who know what they are doing or even by script kiddies downloading crap they found on the internet"
That is simply not true. I guess we_are_toast is talking here about the Internet Explorer and MS Windows. I don't know where we_are_toast is getting his information, I bet he has no idea which is the best linux antivirus software and who is making it

A linux system will work fine when you 1st load it, but when you start having to upgrade all the systems and programs and you find you need to build a bunch of new libraries because the upgrade of an application you are using requires it and the old version isn't supported anymore, you're going to find you're going to end up wiping everything clean and starting over.

I guess we_are_toast should try to use linux himself before writing things like this. Actually his words describe very well what is happening with windows. :p


Jim I have experience with both Linux and Windows, and I disagree with we_are_toast completely.

[GRG55]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

GRG55,

You've got a problem there . . . but I don't think it's XP.

I'm running XP on 4 computers. I do lot's of complex stuff, like photo-manipulation, digital recording, desktop publishing, along with the less intensive stuff like internet browsing, word processing and email. But no problems with the OS.

I've never had one of my computers reboot with XP, or had any OS-related problems.

You've got some kind of virus, hard disk problem, faulty power supply, or something else . . . because it's probably not XP. Try re-seating all the cables, cards, power cord and memory chips. Run an antivirus program, a memory checker program, check to see if your CPU fan is overheating. My guess is it's a bad connection or your power supply is faulty.

Sorry raja, but I wasn't clear. XP has to be rebooted after each MS security update is downloaded and installed. And there seems to have been an extraordinary number of updates required since I bought the computer a few year back [just after XP was introduced].

Frankly I was more than happy with NT, which overall seemed a hell of a lot more stable than any other version of the MS Windows OS I have used over the years.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

Jim, everybody who has a linux machine will have a god chuckle reading what we_are_toast is saying. Why don't you get a Live CD from Ubuntu, and give it a try. You don't like it, you just get out the CD and restart your computer. Actually, we_are_toast should do the same thing before writing stuff like this:

" Some of the files from OpenOffice and Microsoft applications will not be compatible"
I would be very curious myself to find out what are the files not compatible? Everything a normal user needs is compatible.

"drivers for new hardware will not be available"
that is highly unlikely. The simplest test is is to use a Live CD to find out for yourself if any of your hardware is not recognized.


"and there won't be nearly the number of applications available for linux."
this is outright funny

"Linux systems can be attacked and corrupted by people who know what they are doing or even by script kiddies downloading crap they found on the internet"
That is simply not true. I guess we_are_toast is talking here about the Internet Explorer and MS Windows. I don't know where we_are_toast is getting his information, I bet he has no idea which is the best linux antivirus software and who is making it



I guess we_are_toast should try to use linux himself before writing things like this. Actually his words describe very well what is happening with windows. :p


Jim I have experience with both Linux and Windows, and I disagree with we_are_toast completely.

I have been running Linux systems continuously since 1994 when the 1st Slackware distributions were released and you had to configure the vertical and horizontal scan rates for your monitor. I've also been a subscriber to Linux Journal (the latest issue is dedicated to security) for more than a decade. Although I'm not and would not want to be a System Administrator, I've found myself administering small Linux networks. I've sat with security people and watched hundreds of probes per hour on our linux servers. I've had linux boxes compromised because basic set ups of some distributions open ftp or rsh ports. Wait till someone sends you a highly formatted Microsoft document and you try and open it in OpenOffice.

About 80% of my time has been spent on Linux, HPUX, IRIX and other Unix systems. Google "linux drivers" and you'll find dozens of websites that will try to help you find a driver for the latest hardware. You'll also find long hardware compatibility lists. Very few manufacturers will spend the time writing a driver for linux systems that comprise <2% of the market. You'll need someone from the open source community to get around to writing one.

$#* needs to be a little careful before he proclaims his expertise and denounces the input from others.

Good luck on this adventure in computing Jim.

[Rajiv]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

But KDE on Linux appears to have had an attack of "Vista"-itis -- KDE 4 suffers from plonking somebody quite familiar with the older versions of KDE (2.0 to 3.5) into an environment where old ways of doing things no longer work -- and the learning curve is huge -- caused me to go back to a KDE 3.5 desktop -- I am using Mepis 8.0 beta (which refused to shift over to KDE 4.0)

For KDE, it would have been better to have preserved the older look and feel, and have allowed the user to experiment with and then add the new features on the users terms, and not the developers!

[Rajiv]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

I have used Mepis for over five years, and I have found that it works very well for me. Installing upgrades is very easy, and installing major version changes (say 6.x - 7.x -8.x) is also simple -- but of course with a major version change, some of the software that did not come with the distribution may have to be reinstalled -- with the package managers, installing and upgrading software is relatively simple.

However, even though a Windows user will never find him/herself at a complete loss of what to do, there is still a learning curve -- that at least to me has been worth the effort, in software that very rarely has operational problems.

Problems of drivers with some of the newer hardware is always there, because Linux is always playing catchup on the driver front -- even though things are much better than they were.

For people who want to start experimenting with Linux, I would suggest that they use an older desktop or laptop -- one in which Windows Vista, or even Windows XP hiccups. You will find that the old computer will run faster and more reliably than Windows Vista on the latest hardware.

[GRG55]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

...For people who want to start experimenting with Linux, I would suggest that they use an older desktop or laptop -- one in which Windows Vista, or even Windows XP hiccups. You will find that the old computer will run faster and more reliably than Windows Vista on the latest hardware.

This is exactly the problem with personal computers. I will repeat something I have posted before...If the computers in our cars were as difficult to use, as unreliable & prone to failure, and as crappy as the computer on our desk, we would have long ago gone on a buyers strike and insisted the automakers remove them. Why we put up with the garbage sold to us by Microsoft and their hardware vendors, and look to something like Linux, which requires quite a bit of time and no small amount of specialized knowledge to implement successfully, as an improvement, is completely beyond me.

The personal computer should be a tool. And like any decent tool, some knowledge of how to use it and properly take care of it is important. I have an air compressor and pneumatic framing nailer. I know how to use them to accomplish what I need to do, and I know enough about how to maintain them to keep them running reliably. I have no desire to gain any intimate knowledge as to how either of them work internally, because that knowledge doesn't contribute to achieving a higher quality result from having and using those tools. I feel the exact same way about my laptop.

I have no difficulty understanding why some people, including quite a few iTulipers apparently, are keenly interested in the internal workings of computers. But I cannot help but think that the vast majority of personal computer users are more like me...they would rather spend their time on something else instead of being forced to become some sort of technician just to keep the damn thing from crashing.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

One of those nice little internet rumors.

At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the
computer industry with the auto industry and stated "if GM had kept up
with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be
driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."


In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release
stating: "If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be
driving cars with the following
characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to
buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You
would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the car
windows, shut it off, restart it, and reopen the windows before you
could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause
your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would
have to reinstall the engine.

5. Only one person at a time could use the car unless you bought
"CarNT", but then you would have to buy more seats.

6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was
reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive-but would only
run on five percent of the roads.

7. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would
all be replaced by a single "General Protection Fault" warning light.

8. New seats would force everyone to have the same sized butt.

9. The airbag system would ask "are you SURE?" before deploying.

10. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you
out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door
handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of
Rand McNally Road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither
need nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately
cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more. Moreover, GM
would become a target for investigation by the Justice Dept.

12. Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn
to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in
the same manner as the old car.

13. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

[Rajiv]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

look to something like Linux, which requires quite a bit of time and no small amount of specialized knowledge to implement successfully, as an improvement, is completely beyond me.
.
.
.
.
.
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I have no desire to gain any intimate knowledge as to how either of them work internally, because that knowledge doesn't contribute to achieving a higher quality result from having and using those tools. I feel the exact same way about my laptop.

But I cannot help but think that the vast majority of personal computer users are more like me...they would rather spend their time on something else instead of being forced to become some sort of technician just to keep the damn thing from crashing.

GRG55,

That is not what I said or even implied. If you want an analogy between Windows and Linux, and operating those, the analogy is more like moving from a Jaguar to a BMW. People who have only driven Jaguars will have a learning curve before they will become totally familiar with their BMW's -- that is what I was alluding to.

However, the problem with drivers I was alluding to, is that hardware vendors when they release hardware based on new chipsets, do not write Linux drivers -- but only release the hardware with windows drivers (and quite justifiably so -- as Windows had a 90% market share) -- but they do not release the firmware specifications (that will allow Linux vendors to develop the drivers) at the same time as they do to Microsoft -- the net result is that the drivers are available a bit after they are available in Windows.

And installing drivers is often quite mystifying even to regular Windows users.

So you may find that your latest Compaq or Dell laptop may not have all the bells and whistles that come with Windows -- that is the reason for my suggesting using older hardware.

Other than that there is as little difference in operating a Linux Desktop compared to operating a Windows desktop as driving a Jaguar is different from driving a BMW.

[c1ue]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

Jim,

If you have something that works, then I'd not mess with it.

The main problem with older MS OS or Office installs is if you communicate with others. I've been using Office 2000 for many years now (ever since Quattro Pro was discontinued); while it sucked in terms of what I was able to do before, on the other hand it was too much trouble passing data around for Quattro in an Office world.

Recently, I'm now having the same problems with my fellow business owners all using Office 2007. The damned .xlsx, .pptx, and .docx files can be converted, but it is a pain in the rump.

As for Linux - there are some capabilities in Linux similar to Windows. However, as someone with a dual boot Linux/XP laptop - Linux is not that easy to use. Getting my wireless access working on the Linux boot was 1,000,000 times harder than XP; nothing more frustrating than having wireless working on one side and not the other - on the same machine!

But, if you are expecting a stable environment - then the investment may be worth it. As your present machine ages, you will have more and more difficulty maintaining your same environment. I found this out last time when I tried to convert an XP machine back to Windows 2000 - M* won't let you! Expect more of this in the future. Linux on the other hand is likely to only get better and easier to use.

The way it appears to be progressing is such that it is most likely to retain the same basic capabilities for a long time. Thus if you get used to it now, it is much more likely that you'll be able to retain the same functionality/appearance for years to come.

My views on M* are well known.

[Supercilious]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

I have been running Linux systems continuously since 1994 when the 1st Slackware distributions were released and you had to configure the vertical and horizontal scan rates for your monitor. I've also been a subscriber to Linux Journal (the latest issue is dedicated to security) for more than a decade. Although I'm not and would not want to be a System Administrator, I've found myself administering small Linux networks. I've sat with security people and watched hundreds of probes per hour on our linux servers.

Yeah great, If you have these credentials then how can you say that the current consumer distros are difficult to use for windows users.

I've had linux boxes compromised because basic set ups of some distributions open ftp or rsh ports.

You are talking history. Have you tried to check an out of the box new distro? Just get the new Ubuntu or Suse or even a Red Hat and do a port check for yourself, and tell me what you find...

Wait till someone sends you a highly formatted Microsoft document and you try and open it in OpenOffice.

I guess Jim is going to receive a lot highly formated microsoft documents with embedded media and MS objects.:rolleyes: Give me a break please. Most of the individual users don't use "highly formated" documents. The Open Office can deal with 100% of day to day text editing and spreadsheets. I haven't had yet any problem with opening and writing MS format files.

About 80% of my time has been spent on Linux, HPUX, IRIX and other Unix systems.

Good, then how can you say XP and Vista are better than the latest consumer distros such as Ubuntu, Mandriva or Suse? have you tried one of these packages lately ?

Google "linux drivers" and you'll find dozens of websites that will try to help you find a driver for the latest hardware. You'll also find long hardware compatibility lists.

The individual users installs drivers from certified repositories through a package manager. With any OS if one goes like an idiot on the web and installs "drivers" from the first website they see the security is compromise. No system can protect an user for his own stupidity.

Do you really think Jim is so sumb to install "drivers" from the first website he googles.

Very few manufacturers will spend the time writing a driver for linux systems that comprise <2% of the market. You'll need someone from the open source community to get around to writing one.

For your information Firefox is also Open Source, and it's much safer than IE. Can you give me of an example of a funny script picked out of a certified repository? There was one case and it was discovered after three days.

$#* needs to be a little careful before he proclaims his expertise and denounces the input from others.

have you ever though I might have been involved with linux before you ever heard of it? If you claim you have such experience, then or you are not aware of the latest progress made for bringing Linux to the average personal computer user, or you have a MS bias and you are full of it.

Do you really believe XP and Vista home editions are better than the new Linux distros ?

Good luck on this adventure in computing Jim.

Jim, can try linux without making any changes to his computer. If he has any problems or he doesn't like it he sticks with Windows. No harm done.

Why do you want to scare him out of trying something better? I haven't told him to replace XP. Just to get a dual boot. If he doesn't like linux . even after the dual boot, he can use use Supergrub to change it back to all XP like before. What is the problem?

[Sharky]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

Most netbooks that come with Linux will also run Windows. Drivers can be an issue in some cases, but usually the conversion goes very smoothly.

I've found the solid state disk-based netbooks to be pretty slow compared to the ones with actual hard drives. Either way, though, they can be very nice little machines, esp. for people who mainly use their PCs for surfing and email.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

I've been biting my tongue (gluing my keyboard -- I need an appropriate metaphor for this medium) on this thread. I've spent the last three decades deep in the bowels of Unix and Linux, with a few years here and there professionally on the Microsoft DOS/Windows side, and have setup most of my relatives with one kind or another of computer, including Linux, DOS, WIndows and Mac. I have a half dozen computers in front of me, a mix of Linux, Windows and Mac.

May I suggest this. It depends on what you want to do with the computer, on your tolerance for technical frustrations and on whom you can get to help you.

We have tolerated computers that were far less usable and reliable than we would accept from almost anything else. I think this is because computers have been changing and extending their uses and capabilities so fast that almost any half broken computer of today was worth more than the most stable computer that was more than five or ten years old.

If Linux does what you need, and if you have the temperment or a friend or family member with the temperment to get past the problems, then I recommend it. Every, every computer will have problems that are trivial to get past if you happen to know how, or that can totally stop you and waste hours and days and weeks of your time if you don't know.

The inner technology of Linux is more stable, but if you have to deal with the latest Microsoft documents from say fellow workers and get the formatting just right, you must use Microsoft. If you want to play PC games, you pretty much require Windows. If you are not tightly constrained by money and deal especially with sound and video and other such media, then Mac is awesome, and has internal technology as solid as Linux. Windows innards suck, but even I run it (while cursing at it) for some uses, such as games, the best tax and accounting software, and certain web sites (my bank for one) that require Internet Explorer.

Arguing whether an unreliable old FORD pickup truck, or a rusted out Vega hatchback, or a 60's muscle car with a blown cylinder is a better vehicle for you is pointless. They all suck, it depends on what you need to do, and on either your mechanical skills or your ability to befriend someone with such skills.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

For me this has turned into an informative thread, but then I don't know much about a lot of things. I PM'd symbols about how one might proceed with creating a dual boot machine and he was kind enough to provide me with a detailed instruction, which with his permission I am posting for anyone else who has marginal or no experience with Linux and who might wish to give it a try.

Here is the official guide of Ubuntu Linux installation, but this is a general guide and probably you don't need to know or use more than three quarters of what it is written there:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot

This is another page, which is still too complicated and with too much linux talk, which later you will find it very easy to understand:
http://www.herman.linuxmaniac.net/p24.html

Jim, the big problem is that the first linux installation can be quite intimidating because Windows users are like train passangers while Linux users are like car drivers, but it is realy not a big deal.

As long as you backup all your windows data and create a rescue system disk, even if you make a mistake you can restore your windows machine as before installation with no risk. You shouldn't have any problem, I'm just concerned you said you have little knowledge computers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nickerson It is a laptop with over half of a 60gig harddrive free and there are no partitions except the c:\

Most probably you also have a factory hidden partition for the recovery tools.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nickerson I periodically clone the drive on this computer into a second drive that is bootable, and I keep all my stuff that is important backuped daily. I'm not worried that in trying a Linux installation that I would suffer some unrecoverable disruption of what I have now.

Is that second drive and external USB drive?Good, then you are not running any risks. You should also make bootable the CDrom drive (if it's snot already bootable. Is that second drive and external USB drive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nickerson If I am going to try Linux, I need it set up so that over days I can fool with it when I have time and see what I like and don't like and what, if any, shortcomings it has with the things I need to do. I think a second operating system installation on the drive that is in the computer now would allow me to do that.

That is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nickerson Once one has two operating systems installed, is it possible to switch from one to the other without rebooting?

No. In a dual boot you can't switch between operating systems without rebooting. You can run Linux inside Windows in a virtual machine, but that would make linux very slow. Not worth doing it IMHO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nickerson Am I understanding your note that the WindowsDualBoot link is a good instruction, and I can use that if I wish to proceed?

Yes but those are general guides covering much more than you need

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nickerson I'm very reluctant to presume upon other people's time, so please don't think I expect your help. I do appreciate your guidance, but you know the value of your time.

It won't take long to explain because the process is actually very simple. If you run into trouble you may need a hint or two and that will save you time and sweat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nickerson I wrote I know NOTHING about Linux, but I do know something about pc's, but how to quantitate that I have no idea.

Ok let's check that. For you the steps are very simple. Tell me if there is anything you don't know what it means or you don't understand, or you don't know how to do it from the following procedure.
1) Get all your files backuped and get a windows system repair disk (or the factory equivalent foryour computer from the factory recovery utility)
2) Download the 32 bit or the 64 bit(depending on your processor and architecture) Ubuntu 8.10 installation file (ISO format) form here:
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
3) Get an ISO writing utility (windows doesn't come with ISO capability) and burn the ISO installation CD. I would suggest to use Infra Recorder:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
4) After you get the Live CD (Ubuntu installation CD), put the disk in your machine and reboot. First thing you do is an integrity check (don't need to bother with md5sum and hash data):
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...IntegrityCheck

If the disk is OK then reboot leaving the disk in the CD
5) When it reboots again, at the main menu screen select the first option : "Try Ubuntu without any change to your computer" (if your computer is low on memory it may put you in a language selection menu. Use "Escape" to return to main menu)
The Linux OS runs from the CD and from your RAM. You can browse the internet with Firefox, take a look at Open Office , but most important see if you have any hardware problems or conflicts.

If everything goes well and you like it, you should prepare for installation.

If things are not OK power down the computer and take the Live CD out. No harm was done.
6) Download two utilities called "Supergrub" and "Gparted" and make two separate ISO disks with Infra Recorder (from step 3) -If you get into trouble you can repair easily the Master Boot Record with the Supergrub CD (by rebooting it with the Supergrub CD in and choosing the last option on the menu) and you can change partition data with Gparted. Hopefully you will not need them.

7) Defragment your C drive until you get a big empty sector at the end of your drive. If your XP defragmenter doesn't have visual interface to check , just defragment two or three times until the defragmenter finishes fast (2-3 minutes of actual defragmenting)

8) Stick the Live CD (Ubuntu installation CD you burned at 3 ) in the CDrom and reboot. Don't forget to unplug the internet before rebooting!! Older machines may have problems if the internet connection is present at the time of installation.

9) At the main menu choose "Install Ubuntu". Here is a very concise and good guide for Unbuntu 8.04 (the graphics are almost identical in 8.10):
http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/installing

10) At the partition step you choose "guided resize partition" and shrink the windows partition to make 15-20 GB space for Linux
http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/images/...ardyplus11.png

11) Don't forget to import your internet bookmarks settings from Windows when prompted. Don't bother with anything else (for documents you should use a flash drive or an external drive)

12) When the installation is finished , it will eject the installation disk before turning off. Don't forget to take out the installation disk and to plug the internet in before pressing Enter at the end.

13) At reboot you get a loader like this:
http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/images/...ardyplus23.png

for laptops you may get an extra option for the hidden recovery partition for windows (don't go there !) If both windows partitions ( C and recovery )have the same name chose one, and if you get a funny recovery screen, exit or turn off the computer and chose the other one next time when you want to boot windows. By default it will load Linux

14) At the first boot in Linux you will get a red icon in the tray saying you have to update the software/system ( in linux the software installation files are called packages). This updating may take a while if you have a bad connection. All linux software is installed in Ubuntu by an utility called Synaptic Package Manager (System>Administration>Synaptic Package Manager).
____________________________________

If you have any question about how things works just do a google search "Ubuntu " You will find good answers fast, especially on Ubuntu forums.
For the rest , just have fun and explore. In a few days maximum you will love it.

Cheers, [Symbols]

FYI, I am in the process of checking to see how much I know about computers--I guess if Symbols' directions are good, and I have a bit of knowledge and get Linux installed, it will be a statement that I know something.

Thank you, Symbols, and you other fellows for your inputs.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Anyone getting a $250 netbook?

Given the propensity of computers to not work usefully, and given the extraordinary value of searching the web for answers to computer problems (which requires a usefully working computer), and given the extremely low cost of cheap computers (perhaps at an historic all time low, if some of the predictions on this forum are correct) then I would encourage anyone not too strapped for cash to get a second (or third or fourth or ... ;) computer, rather than dual booting.

When I was poorer, and computers were more expensive, I used to dual boot extensively (well, quadruple quintuple boot or some such ;).) But now it's one computer, one O.S. Since a KVM (Keyboard, video, mouse) switch is cheaper than a decent monitor, I attach all my computers to a KVM switch and have just one chair + desk + keyboard + mouse + monitor setup.

I recommend Avocent KVM switches. They cost a little more, but work exceedingly well.