If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

[touchring]

After watching this, I've no doubt about what Assad can do once Iran passes him the nukes. Assad can do this on his fellow Sunni Muslims, let alone the infidels that Assad's religion declares that must all be killed.

And this is the best Obama can say: "Chemical weapons use would cross line"

Why would Assad need to use chemical weapons if he can use conventional bombs?

Is that all that a US President who has won the Nobel Peace Prize can say?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/obama-...425_video.html

[c1ue]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

Goodness, how can Iran pass nukes to Syria when Iran doesn't even have them?

The only nation with nukes in the Middle East is Israel itself.

You really shouldn't even bother paying attention to anything from the WaPo that purports to be analysis or fact - at least anything remotely outside of Washington politics.

[Raz]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

I don't believe the Imams want Israel nuked - that would destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque al-Aqsa.
They want a nuke to deter the US while they agitate, destabilize, threaten and eventually rule the Persian Gulf states.

Assad doesn't want Syria turned to glass, and the Imams don't want Mecca and Medina turned to glass either.
I'd bet half of my net worth that the Israelis have made it crystal clear to their neighbors that should they endure a nuclear strike
ALL the holy places of Islam will be among the first to go.

[astonas]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

I don't believe the Imans want Israel nuked - that would destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque al-Aqsa.
They want a nuke to deter the US while they agitate, destabilize, threaten and eventually rule the Persial Gulf states.

Assad doesn't want Syria turned to glass, and the Imams don't want Mecca and Medina turned to glass either.
I'd bet half of my net worth that the Israelis have made it crystal clear to their neighbors that should they endure a nuclear strike
ALL the holy places of Islam will be among the first to go.

I'm with Raz on this one. Painting the middle east as two bands of madmen willing to destroy themselves in order to destroy their enemies doesn't make any sense, in spite of its overuse as a convenient narrative. The only people who are willing to do THAT are the ones who already do it -- young men who see no other route to have an impact in the world, or even their own lives. And these take themselves out of play through individual actions early on.

When someone is in the role of leading a nation, that very fact means that there are lots of other options -- and responsibilities.

[touchring]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

I don't believe the Imans want Israel nuked - that would destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque al-Aqsa.
They want a nuke to deter the US while they agitate, destabilize, threaten and eventually rule the Persial Gulf states.

I thought Assad and Imams got no qualms about destroying Mosques and burning up Qurans. Look how many they have destroyed in the last couple of months. Not all religious people are really religious. Many religious leaders only use religion to secure power and to further their own personal agendas. Monuments that are destroyed can always be rebuilt to the exact state where they were as long as you have the architectural floor plans.

When someone is in the role of leading a nation, that very fact means that there are lots of other options -- and responsibilities.

So when Saddam Hussein who was in his 60s decided to take Kuwait, did he do it in a responsible manner?

There is no shortage of insane leaders in the world.

If the Imams were sane, they would have abandoned the nuclear program to produce electricity- I read that Iran has the largest reserve of free natural gas in the world! By abandoning the program, Iran will prosper, economic suffering will end.

[touchring]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

Goodness, how can Iran pass nukes to Syria when Iran doesn't even have them?

You're right, but I didn't say Iran has nukes. But I believe that Iran will be almost capable of producing nukes by the end of Obama's second term.

Notice that Iran has been very quiet in recent months. In fact, they are extremely subdued even when their crucial Syrian allies are on the losing end of the rebellion.

It will be to their benefit if their agent wins.

Obama is also doing his job by staying out of Syria.

[c1ue]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

You're right, but I didn't say Iran has nukes. But I believe that Iran will be almost capable of producing nukes by the end of Obama's second term.

Pity your belief is not shared by either the US defense establishment, or for that matter almost anyone else except a couple loud mouths in Israel.

Notice that Iran has been very quiet in recent months. In fact, they are extremely subdued even when their crucial Syrian allies are on the losing end of the rebellion.

It will be to their benefit if their agent wins.

Obama is also doing his job by staying out of Syria.

Uh, more nonsense. I guess in your book the only 'noise' is when someone starts shooting at someone else - like the US in Libya.

I suppose you will now point out that the US shooting up an Indian fishing boat was also 'defense'.

Iran did nothing when the US 'Mission Accomplished' Iraq, and wound up with a virtual proxy as a result instead of an opponent in a decade plus long war.

Sometimes you accomplish more by doing nothing rather than doing something stupid.

[touchring]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

Sometimes you accomplish more by doing nothing rather than doing something stupid.

I think you still don't get the point. I'm not saying that the US should do something. In fact, the US shouldn't do anything. Obama is doing the right thing by putting up a Chinese opera show with respect to Iran and Israel affairs.

[astonas]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

So when Saddam Hussein who was in his 60s decided to take Kuwait, did he do it in a responsible manner?

There is no shortage of insane leaders in the world.

"responsible" and "insane" are, in this case, relative. Hussein did gas his own people. But he did not gas Israel, even though he had the capability of doing so. The reason? He knew he ran the risk of being nuked in response.

The argument being made in the lead piece is that mutually-assured destruction (MAD) is insufficient to prevent a nuclear holocaust in the Middle East, because the depth of hatred is so great that Israel will be destroyed EVEN IF THE RESPONSE WILL BE THE TOTAL ANNIHILATION OF THE INITIATING NATION.

In other words, the Post is saying that national leaders would sign their entire nation, and most especially themselves personally, to be suicide bombers, just to destroy Israel.

Even Saddam Hussein didn't do that. Indeed, there is NO precedent for that. Since the advent of the nuclear age in WWII, no nuclear bomb has been used in a war. And it wasn't because the Soviets, for example, were all nice and trustworthy guys. It was because they knew that there was a line they couldn't cross and survive.

I don't see how one can read Krauthammer's earlier piece in the Post as something other than propaganda, either. A dictator's entire existence is a struggle to REMAIN in power (hence the ruthlessness, after all). And we are to believe that all of a sudden they will be seized by a religious furor that will cause them to abandon not only this unifying principle of their existence to date, but also the desire to survive as well?

It doesn't make sense.

[Raz]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

I thought Assad and Imams got no qualms about destroying Mosques and burning up Qurans. Look how many they have destroyed in the last couple of months. Not all religious people are really religious. Many religious leaders only use religion to secure power and to further their own personal agendas. Monuments that are destroyed can always be rebuilt to the exact state where they were as long as you have the architectural floor plans.

It's not simply the destruction of a mosque that can be rebuilt; it would mean the vaporizing of religous relics that cannot be replaced.

In Jerusalem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_Stone

In Mecca: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

[Raz]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

"... He knew he ran the risk of being nuked in response.

... A dictator's entire existence is a struggle to REMAIN in power (hence the ruthlessness, after all). And we are to believe that all of a sudden they will be seized by a religious furor that will cause them to abandon not only this unifying principle of their existence to date, but also the desire to survive as well?

It doesn't make sense.

I actually thought Sadaam Hussein had a nuclear weapon or two, but I still didn't buy into "W"s bull$#!t excuse to invade Iraq.
Sadaam only cared for his palaces, his concubines and his two lovely sons. He never gave a damn about Islam and even Bin Laden declared him to be a hypocrite and an infidel.

The Sadaams of this world will never risk their necks for a religious crusade.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=283399

US/Israeli joint ballistic missile defense exercise is now going to have a substantially reduced US component.

US personnel involved is now expected to drop approx 70%.

Patriot missile batteries still expected to arrive, but without crews(which is quite odd)

US Navy Aegis BMD capable cruisers expected to drop from 2 to 1, and possibly none from other sources.

I'm assuming this is stronger/public diplomatic wrangling on the part of the US to hinder Israeli efforts towards Iran.

[BadJuju]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

I'm assuming this is stronger/public diplomatic wrangling on the part of the US to hinder Israeli efforts towards Iran.

It would be nice to see further decoupling of the US and Israel in the future. Not to say we should abandon them or anything, but that they should play a far, far smaller role in our international politics.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

It would be nice to see further decoupling of the US and Israel in the future. Not to say we should abandon them or anything, but that they should play a far, far smaller role in our international politics.

Israel has been working hard to develop stronger ties with China, India, and Brazil.

I don't think the US would be too worked up about stronger Israeli ties with India and Brazil....in fact I could imagine the US quietly encouraging support for stronger ties with India in particular.

But China.......that's where the US would likely get a little bit bunny boiler weird.

Israel, always acting the part that nearly everything is an existential threat to them, could be trying hard to play China off the US.

There's already been a number of military technology transfer allegations by the US against Israel in its relations with China that could justifiably give the US pause.

There really is a significant amount of jointly and independently developed bleeding edge military technology between the US and Israel.......if Israel felt it had to choose and actually chose China, to procure China's veto in the UN it could mean a far accelerated military technology development cycle for China to the detriment of the US.

Worst case hypothetical.......but Israel is no ally of the US. Just look at France and Israel up until the 1960's.....France made it's choices under pressure and Israel found a better suitor in the US......it could happen again.

[touchring]

Re: If Obama wins, Israel wil not survive.

Even Saddam Hussein didn't do that. Indeed, there is NO precedent for that. Since the advent of the nuclear age in WWII, no nuclear bomb has been used in a war. And it wasn't because the Soviets, for example, were all nice and trustworthy guys. It was because they knew that there was a line they couldn't cross and survive.

I don't see how one can read Krauthammer's earlier piece in the Post as something other than propaganda, either. A dictator's entire existence is a struggle to REMAIN in power (hence the ruthlessness, after all). And we are to believe that all of a sudden they will be seized by a religious furor that will cause them to abandon not only this unifying principle of their existence to date, but also the desire to survive as well?

It doesn't make sense.

I agree with what you say, but the Persians are too smart for that. They don't need to use the bomb themselves. They can pass it to some suicidal terrorist group in a truck. After the bomb goes, it will vaporize completely, including the truck, and there will be no trace of it nor evidence who did it. And they could even ship it to port of New York. It doesn't even need to clear customs.

I am only giving examples, these dudes are very imaginative, remember that Steve Jobs is also half Arab. Who would have thought it a million years that they would have hijacked planes and direct them towards the Pentagon?