LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

[Slimprofits]

Anyone try them out yet?

I hate to mention any retailers by name, but they're in stock in several of the big-box stores.

[Fiat Currency]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

Anyone try them out yet?

I hate to mention any retailers by name, but they're in stock in several of the big-box stores.

I would try to buy from a manufacturer that uses/follows ITRI's LED technology ...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ITRI+LED

... I find they are the best.

[shiny!]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

I replaced my CFLs with the Philips Ambient LED 60 watt equivalent from Home Depot. It puts out 800 lumens using only 12.5 watts. Unlike the CFLs, the color of the light is beautiful and makes me feel good, and it doesn't contain mercury. I don't feel like I'm wasting money or energy leaving the lights on when I leave the house. Yes, there was pain at the cash register, but that was transient and I really like the lights.

[we_are_toast]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

I think LED's are where CFL's were 10 years ago. I just checked the Lowe's website and a 40W bulb is going for $13. You can get 6 100W CFL's for about the same price. The wattage is incandescent equivalent. The actual power is 23W for the CFL and 7.5W for the LED. So in the end, you can save about 1/3 the energy for and equivalent amount of light with the LED, but it will cost you about 10 times more than the CFL.

I use LED holiday lights, because I live off the grid and monitor my power usage closely. LED house lighting isn't ready for prime time yet, but it won't be long.

[Slimprofits]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

a recent Wired mag. story on LEDs for consumers:

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/0...ghtbulbs/all/1

[Slimprofits]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

side question: what is "letmegooglethatforyou"?

[shiny!]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

One limitation of the LED bulb is that you can't put it inside an enclosed light cover. They need airflow to stay cool.

[aaron]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

side question: what is "letmegooglethatforyou"?

You use it when somebody asks an obvious question that Google will answer for you. It is a dig. I assume Fiat Currency does not know that.

[aaron]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

They last several times as long as a CFL and they do not have mercury. I am not allowed to throw the CFL bulbs in the garbage where I live because they have mercury (which just so happens to escape from the bulb into the air when you break them). I'd have to calculate the gas I would spend to take them to the ______ where I can dispose of them (plus the 30 minutes of research to find the place).

They last 3 times as long. So, the effective cost is 3 times a CFL.

The disposal costs and danger from fumes (yes I have broken them) is not trivial.

Finally, a savings of 15 watts over 5 years --> 8 hours per day, is about 1 cent a day, 2 cents in many places--> $3.50 - $7.00 per year --> over 5 years is $17-$35 bucks saved --> over ten years that $35 - $70 dollars saved.

They are well worth the money, if my back of the Internet calculation is remotely accurate.

[Fiat Currency]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

I assume Fiat Currency does not know that.

I certainly never meant it as a dig - just as a shortcut for those interested in more info.

I've been around the Internet long enough to know things change. "Hacker" used to be a term of endearment. I gave up when "words" starting being invented like "meh" etc. To each his/her own I guess.

[wayiwalk]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

I purchased a 6 in box recessed light kit (four, actually) to replace 10 yr old burned out recessed halogen lights for my kitchen. The person at the big box store said the LED lights were new to the store and made for an application for recessed (actually, they're more like flush).

The light from these 4 are pretty bright but you don't say, "hey, that is a weird looking light", as the tone of the light is quite good.

All in all, I'm happy with them, and my wife is too, which is what really matters.

It wasn't cheap (I think the bulb which includes the light cover and parts that allow it to attached to the "can") was about $40, but if I get the 8 - 10 years out of them that is projected, I think it will be worth it.

As the prices come down, I wouldn't hesitate to install more of these in appropriate locations around the house.

[lektrode]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

the LED lamps eye have seen (so far, out here at HD, lowes, costco) are running appx 10x the cost of CFL's and use the same amount of watts to produce an equiv number of lumens (the measure of light output) - altho the merc content is a concern (dont break em and/or 'dont inhale') - in the 2years have had em, havent had to replace any cept for the 'dim-able' ones (which dont like to be dimmed) and the couple that got whacked/dropped - so my plan is to A: try not to break em; B: bet they will last long enough to get me past my 'early-adapter-fetish' when the price of the LED's will likey be as cheap as the CFL's were when i bought em (taking advantage of the utility co's subsidized discount, that dropped the price to appx 2bux ea for par30's and about 1.50 for 14 & 23watters - equiv to 60 & 100w incandescents) -

my back of the Internet calculation goes something like this:100w incand type, burnt 8hours/day = .8kwh/day @.44/kwh x 365days = 128.48/year
vs the equiv lumens via CFL (or LED)
23w x 8hours/day = .19kwh/day @.44/kwh x 365 = 29.71 = appx $100 saved/year per 100watt equiv lamp per year

equals NO BRAINER for those who still doth protesteth changing out ole tom edison's heatbulbs

like... just about every house i've been in over on the mainland is _still_ using (if not bitchin about "the .gov tellin em which kind of lightbulb they gotta buy..." ????
now... just imagine how many billions of kwh's could be saved if everybody changed em?
never mind how many dollars they'd earn TAX FREE (since the avoidance of expense = same is income)
with an appx ROI (IRR) _minimum_ of 10 to 1 (even at .08/kwh they pay in a lot of places) on every dollar INVESTED in changing their lightbulbs?

wish i had 10bux for every time i've heard people complain about this issue, or every op/ed piece eye've read....

[c1ue]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

my back of the Internet calculation goes something like this:100w incand type, burnt 8hours/day = .8kwh/day @.44/kwh x 365days = 128.48/year
vs the equiv lumens via CFL (or LED)
23w x 8hours/day = .19kwh/day @.44/kwh x 365 = 29.71 = appx $100 saved/year per 100watt equiv lamp per year

Lighting is roughly 12% of overall electricity use in the United States: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_..._United_States

The EIA estimate is higher: 15.3%
http://205.254.135.24/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=96&t=3

Overall average annual electricity use for a single family is 10896 kwh:
http://205.254.135.24/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3

15.3% of 10896 kwh is 1667 kwh

A reduction overall from 100 watts to 23 watts would save 1283 kwh. Even at not-Hawaii prices for electricity, this is a significant cash savings. At 10.37 cents/kwh (average US retail price in June 2011), this equals $102.

However, the average US home has 40 sockets for light bulbs:

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/product...ds/CFL_PRG.pdf

Unless you have only 1 bulb and you carry it around as your sole source, a practical replacement of incandescents with LEDs would cost more like $40x40 = $1600

Even assuming a 10 year lifespan, the economics of this are not nearly so clear for most people.

I'd also note one feature of LEDs which is not shared by CFLs or incandescents: they shouldn't fail as in light/no light.

Rather they just start getting dimmer over time.

The 25000/50000 hours of operation they're supposed to have is an estimate where the light output is only 70% of 'new'.

Of course we don't really know what this means. Does this mean you have 70% of the same light as new? You lose certain parts of the spectrum (i.e. color output changes)? The output spectrum shifts (i.e. not just fade out of parts, but actual shift to different parts of spectrum)?

LEDs also are diodes. They can fail catastrophically.

While incandescents regularly get blown by spikes in electrical supply - due to lightning or poor local regulation, the cost for replacement is quite small.

For an LED, this would not be the case.

Thus another note is that long life operation of LED lights requires the addition of spike protection or at the minimum adding a resistor.

Spike protection is not standard in almost any household permanent lighting fixture, and adding a resistor introduces losses into electrical consumption from heating across the resistor.

As for heat - it isn't that the LEDs need air flow per se. It is that LEDs are vulnerable to heat.

If they're hot, the 'aging' noted above regarding dimming accelerates.

Note the catastrophic failure due to electrical supply doesn't happen because of a blown fuse-type failure, it is because the excess current gets converted into heat in the LED. Thus you can have significant performance reduction even without a supply spike - it could occur just from a localized higher than 'standard' current.

Other things LEDs can do which standard light bulbs cannot: if you pump up the input current, you get more light (and less lifespan). Thus having a dimmer-type switch with adjustable maximums could squeeze more life than 'standard', though there are overall household electrical system considerations.

[lektrode]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

thanks for the dissertation mr c1ue, as always i/we learn more from one of these discussion/posts than could reading alone for a week!

...A reduction overall from 100 watts to 23 watts would save 1283 kwh. Even at not-Hawaii prices for electricity, this is a significant cash savings. At 10.37 cents/kwh (average US retail price in June 2011), this equals $102.

per lightbulb (thats lit 8hours/day @.44/kwh) ?

However, the average US home has 40 sockets for light bulbs:

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/product...ds/CFL_PRG.pdf

Unless you have only 1 bulb and you carry it around as your sole source, a practical replacement of incandescents with LEDs would cost more like $40x40 = $1600

Even assuming a 10 year lifespan, the economics of this are not nearly so clear for most people.
....

why i offer that if SAVING ENERGY is the goal (and not making 'a statement' in protesting the hazards of modern life)
that CFL technology works very well, with a 10-to-1 payback the first year, for less than 1/10th the cost of the LED option (a par30 LED is about 40bux, vs 2bux for the CFL) and LOTS more if one is either in a high-cost electric area or doing the off-grid thing = less PV/battery req'd to light up your life

why it boggles my brain how people are complaining about the 'gov forcing me to change my lightbulbs' when its a no-brainer investment that makes even _gold_ look weak in ROI dept, eh?

[c1ue]

Re: LED lightbulbs now more widely available for consumers

per lightbulb (thats lit 8hours/day @.44/kwh)

No, that's overall.

I'd note that the average wattage for light bulbs is lower than 100 watts, I assumed a similar ratio (i.e. 3/4 reduction) in electricity usage.

The problem is that to get to this savings, you need to replace 40 light bulbs.

Spending $1600 to save $100/year is a very long term proposition which also carries back end risks (i.e. the LEDs don't perform as well as advertised in the future).

Obviously if you're saving $400/year because of the super high electricity prices in Hawaii, that is a very different proposition with much less risk. But still $1600.

why i offer that if SAVING ENERGY is the goal (and not making 'a statement' in protesting the hazards of modern life)
that CFL technology works very well, with a 10-to-1 payback the first year, for less than 1/10th the cost of the LED option (a par30 LED is about 40bux, vs 2bux for the CFL) and LOTS more if one is either in a high-cost electric area or doing the off-grid thing = less PV/battery req'd to light up your life

I'd say that if the proposition was so obvious, then why bother with passing a law forcing choice?

People over time will figure it out.