Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/09/...l-these-years/

    {Excerpt only}
    ...

    9/11 conspiracism, perhaps at last somewhat on the wane, penetrated deep into the American left. It has also been widespread on the libertarian and populist right, but that is scarcely surprising, since the American populist right instinctively mistrusts government to a far greater degree than the left, and matches conspiracies to its demon of preference, whether the Internal Revenue Service, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Black Helicopters or the Jews and now Muslims.

    These days a dwindling number of leftists learn their political economy from Marx. Into the theoretical and strategic void has crept a diffuse, peripatic conspiracist view of the world that tends to locate ruling class devilry not in the crises of capital accumulation, or the falling rate of profit, or inter-imperial competition, but in locale (the Bohemian Grove, Bilderberg, Ditchley, Davos) or supposedly “rogue” agencies, with the CIA still at the head of the list. The 9/11 “conspiracy”, or “inside job”, is the Summa of all this foolishness.

    One trips over a fundamental idiocy of the 9/11 conspiracists in the first paragraph of the opening page of the book by one of their high priests, David Ray Griffin, The New Pearl Harbor. “In many respects,” Griffin writes, “the strongest evidence provided by critics of the official account involves the events of 9/11 itself In light of standard procedures for dealing with hijacked airplanes not one of these planes should have reached its target, let alone all three of them.”

The operative word here is “should”. A central characteristic of the conspiracists is that they have a devout, albeit preposterous belief in American efficiency. Many of them start with the racist premise–frequently voiced in as many words in their writings — that “Arabs in caves” weren’t capable of the mission. They believe that military systems should work they way Pentagon press flacks and aerospace salesmen say they should work. They believe that at 8.14 am, when AA flight 11 switched off its radio and transponder, an FAA flight controller should have called the National Military Command center and NORAD. They believe, citing reverently (this is high priest Griffin, who has written no less than ten books on 9/11) “the US Air Force’s own website,” that an F-15 could have intercepted AA flight 11 “by 8.24, and certainly no later than 8.30.”

They appear to have read no military history, which is too bad because if they did they’d know that minutely planned operations–let alone by-the-book responses to an unprecedented emergency — screw up with monotonous regularity, by reason of stupidity, cowardice, venality and all the other failings, not excepting sudden changes in the weather.

    History is generous with such examples. According to the minutely prepared plans of the Strategic Air Command, an impending Soviet attack would have prompted the missile siloes in North Dakota to open, and the ICBMs to arc towards Moscow and kindred targets. The four test launches actually attempted all failed, whereupon the SAC gave up testing. Was it badly designed equipment, human incompetence, defense contractor venality or conspiracy?

    Did the April 24, 1980 effort to rescue the hostages in the US embassy in Teheran fail because a sandstorm disabled three of the eight helicopters, or because the helicopters were poorly made, or because of agents of William Casey and the Republican National Committee poured sugar into their gas tanks in yet another conspiracy?

Have the US military’s varying attempts to explain why F-15s didn’t intercept and shoot down the hijacked planes stemmed from absolutely predictable attempts to cover up the usual screw-ups, or because of conspiracy? Is Mr Cohen in his little store at the end of the block hiking his prices because he wants to make a buck, or because his rent just went up or because the Jews want to take over the world? Bebel said anti-Semitism is the socialism of the fools.

    The conspiracy virus is an old strand. The Russians couldn’t possibly build an A bomb without Commie traitors in the U.S.. The Russians are too dumb. Hitler couldn’t have been defeated by the Red Army marching across Eastern Europe and half Germany. Traitors let it happen. JFK couldn’t have been shot by Oswald — it had to be the CIA. RFK couldn’t have been shot by Sirhan–it had to be the CIA. There are no end to examples seeking to prove that Russians, Arabs, Viet Cong, Japanese, etc etc couldn’t possibly match the brilliance and cunning of secret cabals of white Christians.


    Michael Neumann, a philosopher, and CounterPunch contributor, at the University of Trent, in Ontario, remarked in a note to me:
    “I think the problem of conspiracy nuttery has got worse, and is part of a general trend. There really were serious questions about the Kennedy assassination, an unusual number of them, and it wasn’t too crazy to come to the wrong conclusion. There wasn’t a single serious question about 9-11. The main engine of the 9-11 conspiracy cult is nothing political; it’s the death of any conception of evidence.

    “This probably comes from the decline of Western power. Deep down, almost everyone, across the political spectrum, is locked in a bigotry which can only attribute that decline to some irrational or supernatural power. The result is the ascendency of magic over common sense, let alone reason.
    Yet some have discovered a silver lining in the 9/11 conspiracism. A politically sophisticated leftist in Washington, DC, wrote to me, agreeing with my ridiculing of the “inside job” scenarios, but adding, “To me the most interesting thing (in the US) is how many people are willing to believe that Bush either masterminded it [the 9/11 attacks] or knew in advance and let it happen. If that number or anything close to that is true, that’s a huge base of people that are more than deeply cynical about their elected officials. That would be the real news story that the media is missing, and it’s a big one.”

    “I’m not sure I see the silver lining about cynicism re government,” I answered. “People used to say the same thing about the JFK conspiracy buffs and disbelief in the Warren Commission. Actually, it seems to demobilize people from useful political activity. If the alleged perpetrators are so efficiently devilish in their plots, all resistance is futile. 9/11 conspiracism stemmed from despair and political infantilism. There’s no worthwhile energy to transfer from such kookery. It’s like saying some lunatic shouting to himself on a street corner has the capacity to be a great orator.

    Anyone who ever looked at the JFK assassination will know that there are endless anomalies and loose ends. Eyewitness testimony is conflicting, forensic evidence possibly misconstrued, mishandled or just missing. But in my view, the Warren Commission, as confirmed in almost all essentials by the House Committee on Assassinations in the late 1970s, had it right and Oswald fired the fatal shots from the Schoolbook Depository. The evidentiary chain for his guilt is persuasive, and the cumulative scenarios of the conspiracists entirely unconvincing. But of course–as the years roll by, and even though no death bed confession has ever buttressed those vast, CIA-related scenarios — the conspiracists keep on toiling away, their obsessions as unflagging as ever.


    ...

  • #2
    Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

    Not a 911 truther, but.....why did WTC building 7 pancake neatly into it's own footprint? (not hit by a plane)......this trouble me as well as extraneous explosive material found all over the crime scene, yet not tested for by 911 commission because they felt it was "implausible"..very weak scientific inquiry..that said I cannot imagine motive behind any US citizen involvement...just not convinced the entire explanation of that day has been shared.....btw I do instinctively distrust our government...several good examples of overt government manipulation and lies documented in G Edward Griffin's "The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve"...a very good read.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

      mitboom, see NIST's report with regards to how the building collapsed.
      http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/f..._qa_082108.cfm
      Originally posted by NIST
      How did the fires cause WTC 7 to collapse?

      The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.
      According to the report's probable collapse sequence, heat from the uncontrolled fires caused thermal expansion of the steel beams on the lower floors of the east side of WTC 7, damaging the floor framing on multiple floors.
      Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building (see Diagram 1). The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.
      The unsupported Column 79 then buckled and triggered an upward progression of floor system failures that reached the building's east penthouse. What followed in rapid succession was a series of structural failures. Failure first occurred all the way to the roof line-involving all three interior columns on the easternmost side of the building (79, 80, 81). Then, progressing from east to west across WTC 7, all of the columns failed in the core of the building (58 through 78). Finally, the entire façade collapsed.
      If you want to understand it mathematically, look up Buckling. The loss of nine floors of lateral support, combined with the relationship between unsupported length and buckling strength, means that the column had 1% of its designed resistance to buckling.


      The "extraneous explosive material" you refer to has numerous benign potential sources and is not at all as you characterized it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

        Steel will not melt or collapse from fire....if that was the case there would be many precedents for fire causing complete skyscraper collapse...there are none...and if a building should collapse from a fire induced structural issue, it would certainly not be a complete symmetrical collapse in pancake fashion...the WT7 collapse shows every sign of a controlled demolition.....the 911 commission report actually concluded that there was not a clear cause for the wt7 collapse, and would require "more study".... take a look at videos of the small fires at WT7...many on the web....these small fires burning for only 45 mins or so and could not lead to the events you have detailed...

        I will grant you that the explosive material found may be from benign materials, although there are many physicists and engineers who are reputable that dispute that....However, I am convinced that there are alternate explanations for WT7, and this explanation you provide is not plausible

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

          Originally posted by mitboom View Post
          Steel will not melt or collapse from fire....if that was the case there would be many precedents for fire causing complete skyscraper collapse...there are none...and if a building should collapse from a fire induced structural issue, it would certainly not be a complete symmetrical collapse in pancake fashion...the WT7 collapse shows every sign of a controlled demolition.....the 911 commission report actually concluded that there was not a clear cause for the wt7 collapse, and would require "more study".... take a look at videos of the small fires at WT7...many on the web....these small fires burning for only 45 mins or so and could not lead to the events you have detailed...

          I will grant you that the explosive material found may be from benign materials, although there are many physicists and engineers who are reputable that dispute that....However, I am convinced that there are alternate explanations for WT7, and this explanation you provide is not plausible
          Your first paragraph is a very cookie-cutter "Truther" type of response and indicates that this conversation is likely to not advance beyond your erroneous preconceived notions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

            Originally posted by mitboom
            Not a 911 truther, but.....why did WTC building 7 pancake neatly into it's own footprint? (not hit by a plane)......this trouble me as well as extraneous explosive material found all over the crime scene, yet not tested for by 911 commission because they felt it was "implausible"..very weak scientific inquiry..that said I cannot imagine motive behind any US citizen involvement...just not convinced the entire explanation of that day has been shared.....btw I do instinctively distrust our government...several good examples of overt government manipulation and lies documented in G Edward Griffin's "The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve"...a very good read.
            I'd suggest reading the full Alexander Cockburn article for his view on how these questions are answered.

            The excerpt was simply to examine the reasons and/or circumstances behind burgeoning conspiracy belief, not to re-open the WTC discussion.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

              People have watched too many episodes of "24" and read too many Tom Clancy novels. "We couldn't screw up, it had to be on purpose". This idea of a super efficient, all knowing military/law enforcement complex, where response times are measured in seconds, is kind of funny.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

                Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                People have watched too many episodes of "24" and read too many Tom Clancy novels. "We couldn't screw up, it had to be on purpose". This idea of a super efficient, all knowing military/law enforcement complex, where response times are measured in seconds, is kind of funny.
                I know, right?

                I've not delved too much into the psychological aspects that afflict conspiracy theorists, but I think a primary motive for "wanting to believe" in any given conspiracy theory which is either completely lacking in any merit (9/11 controlled demolition, false moon landing, FDR let Pearl Harbor happen on purpose, Roswell alien crash) versus those which might have some even remote possibility of being true (JFK), is a fundamental desire to prove competence. What I mean is that the tin foil wearer believes that they have overcome the veil put over the sheep's eyes--or at least they interpret it as such--and that gives them a sense of accomplishment. Believing in government omniscience/omnipotence is par for the course and bolsters the accomplishment of "seeing past the curtain of lies," at least from the perspective of the paranoid.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

                  Originally posted by Ghent12 View Post
                  mitboom, see NIST's report with regards to how the building collapsed.
                  http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/f..._qa_082108.cfm

                  If you want to understand it mathematically, look up Buckling. The loss of nine floors of lateral support, combined with the relationship between unsupported length and buckling strength, means that the column had 1% of its designed resistance to buckling.


                  The "extraneous explosive material" you refer to has numerous benign potential sources and is not at all as you characterized it.
                  I think those studying the science of building design will eventually come to the conclusion (if they haven't already) that these open floor designs, where very long floor girders are supported by a just a small core and the outer walls of the building, are inherently vulnerable to these sorts of pancake style collapses.

                  The classic column and girder box design of many tall buildings seems to make them more resistant to collapse after a fire.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

                    Originally posted by Scot View Post
                    I think those studying the science of building design will eventually come to the conclusion (if they haven't already) that these open floor designs, where very long floor girders are supported by a just a small core and the outer walls of the building, are inherently vulnerable to these sorts of pancake style collapses.

                    The classic column and girder box design of many tall buildings seems to make them more resistant to collapse after a fire.
                    Any architects here at iTulip who would care to share their opinions?

                    Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

                      September 28, 2011, 10:24 AM
                      Stop the Conspiracy Theories, Al Qaeda Tells Iranian Leader
                      By J. DAVID GOODMAN

                      The latest issue of the terror group’s English-language magazine, Inspire, lashed out at the Iranian president for indulging in the claim that the American government — and not Al Qaeda — was responsible for the attack. It was a claim Mr. Ahmadinejad repeated during his address to the United Nations General Assembly last week, when he suggested that the killing of Osama bin Laden was part of a dark conspiracy to conceal the real perpetrators of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

                        Originally posted by Scot View Post
                        I think those studying the science of building design will eventually come to the conclusion (if they haven't already) that these open floor designs, where very long floor girders are supported by a just a small core and the outer walls of the building, are inherently vulnerable to these sorts of pancake style collapses.

                        The classic column and girder box design of many tall buildings seems to make them more resistant to collapse after a fire.
                        I think this will answer the question:
                        http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ed2_1186072243&p=1


                        Looks like yes, the weakness was exposed and will probably not contribute to a building collapse of buildings built since then. At least until the lesson is forgotten, of course.


                        In contrast, here's a look at the intellectual rigor of the "conspiracy theorist" crowd:
                        Infowars article.

                        "Conspiracy theorists" make me sick sometimes. Too thick-headed to think for themselves it seems.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

                          Originally posted by Ghent12 View Post
                          I know, right?

                          I've not delved too much into the psychological aspects that afflict conspiracy theorists, but I think a primary motive for "wanting to believe" in any given conspiracy theory which is either completely lacking in any merit (9/11 controlled demolition, false moon landing, FDR let Pearl Harbor happen on purpose, Roswell alien crash) versus those which might have some even remote possibility of being true (JFK), is a fundamental desire to prove competence. What I mean is that the tin foil wearer believes that they have overcome the veil put over the sheep's eyes--or at least they interpret it as such--and that gives them a sense of accomplishment. Believing in government omniscience/omnipotence is par for the course and bolsters the accomplishment of "seeing past the curtain of lies," at least from the perspective of the paranoid.
                          I've had thoughts along the same lines. People want to believe they are more insightful than others. That they can't be fooled like all the other sheep. Good job contrasting the JFK( plausible conspiracy) with the others.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

                            Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                            I've had thoughts along the same lines. People want to believe they are more insightful than others. That they can't be fooled like all the other sheep. Good job contrasting the JFK( plausible conspiracy) with the others.
                            It's all speculation from me, but that's what I gather. I've been accused of being a part of the conspiracy on another forum, when all I was doing was stating very simple facts. One of those was about the "molten steel" found during the salvage operations of the WTC complex which was more than likely to be aluminum or mostly aluminum or some other metal with a lower melting point--it doesn't exactly look like the aluminum in the "Truthers" favorite video of molten aluminum, but from first principles one must conclude that any molten metals found somewhere must consist of at least the more common metals with the lower melting points, and possibly the other common metals with higher melting points. Once you make the connection that this "molten steel" was, in fact, dripping off of red-hot chunks of steel as it was being lifted, you have to conclude that the "molten steel" was actually aluminum or some other metal with a tangibly lower melting point than steel. The "Truthers" own favorite photos provide ample disproof of their wild speculation in most cases, and for pointing this out I am magically a part of this uber-vast conspiracy.

                            I don't personally believe there is any plausibility to the JFK conspiracy theory, but it is the only conspiracy theory that is the "once-off" for some people. That is to say, people who don't normally believe in any other conspiracy theories may often have doubt about whether JFK was assassinated by a lone gunman, at least in my experience. This is in contrast to those who believe in the 9/11 conspiracy theory who often believe in multiple conspiracy theories including absolutely asinine ones such as "chem-trails" and so forth. Just a little critical thought dispels virtually all of those types of conspiracy theories.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Long article on 9/11 conspiracy - interesting part is the social analysis of this phenomenon

                              It occurs to me that a more likely "conspiracy theory" is somebody cut corners when building the buildings. A little less steal here, a little less support there. Pretty soon, you have a building that cannot take the collapse of another building 3 blocks away.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X