Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

[c1ue]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

If only 20% of China has a Western standard of living, that is *still* 200 million! Nearly two-thirds the US population! That simply can not be written off.

If the 200 million were by themselves, that means something. If the 200 million must keep in check and/or support 1.1 billion, that cancels out their impact significantly.

Or else India would also be an 'economic superpower'. India has comparable numbers of affluent people, with an even larger population of even poorer people.

And having traveled through many Chinese cities that likely few Westerners have ever heard of, I can tell you factually, that these are *not* peasant villages. In most ways they are comparable or even superior in some ways to many US cities. It's not just transportation.

I stress the word "Cities".

Have you toured the factories in Shenzhen? The rural farms? Xinjiang?

For that matter, next time you visit, get a driver and just go in a straight line 60 miles away from any of the cities in question.

[jpatter666]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

If the 200 million were by themselves, that means something. If the 200 million must keep in check and/or support 1.1 billion, that cancels out their impact significantly.

Or else India would also be an 'economic superpower'. India has comparable numbers of affluent people, with an even larger population of even poorer people.



I stress the word "Cities".

Have you toured the factories in Shenzhen? The rural farms? Xinjiang?

For that matter, next time you visit, get a driver and just go in a straight line 60 miles away from any of the cities in question.

Oh, I did, I did....from the Vietnam border to Kunming and thence to the Tibetan plateau. Several hundred miles. Numerous stops along the way -- few of them "tourist locations". In many, not a soul spoke English. And we used the local transport buses. No personal drivers -- we traveled *exactly* the way the locals did.

And since we're on the subject, what's your personal China experience?

[c1ue]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

Oh, I did, I did....from the Vietnam border to Kunming and thence to the Tibetan plateau. Several hundred miles. Numerous stops along the way -- few of them "tourist locations". In many, not a soul spoke English. And we used the local transport buses. No personal drivers -- we traveled *exactly* the way the locals did.

And since we're on the subject, what's your personal China experience?

I've already noted my China experience: I first visited China in 1984, and regularly visited for both personal and business reasons.

I have relatives and friends there.

I've been in Xinjiang and Tibet. I've visited Wuhai, Harbin, Chengdu, and points in between, though not far western China.

I've seen China go from a 2 currency system and internal controls on purchases to stock markets.

I also speak Mandarin.

How about you?

[jpatter666]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

Been wandering around China (and Southeast Asia in general) for business and pleasure since about 1996. No relatives, but plenty of friends.

Very limited Mandarin though I keep trying -- I've no talent for languages. My wife, on the other hand, is a whiz.....

[c1ue]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

Very simple experiment for you.

Go to China and live as a Chinese.

It is really easy for someone from the US to go to China and feel like a king.

Food seems ridiculously cheap, ditto pretty much everything else.

Cut your daily budget to what a typical Chinese works with, then come back and let's talk. We're talking $15 a day - but to be generous I'll give you $30.

[jpatter666]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

Sigh...actually our budget when traveling in China was $50 (for a couple) -- and that was including doing the touristy things and travel. We met up with other travelers who were making it on less.

Our discussion from my side is over. You are continually argumentative, you seem to seek out fights from our and other postings I've seen you on. You must be smarter, wiser and so obviously more informed than everyone else.

I am wasting my own very valuable time here -- and it's done.

[aaron]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

Oh, I did, I did....from the Vietnam border to Kunming and thence to the Tibetan plateau. Several hundred miles. Numerous stops along the way -- few of them "tourist locations". In many, not a soul spoke English. And we used the local transport buses. No personal drivers -- we traveled *exactly* the way the locals did.

I went out that way too (1995 I think). It an amazing trip. They would not let tourists into the poor areas. However, the areas that I did see were very poor indeed.

[aaron]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_by_GDP_(PPP)
China
10,084,764

USA
14,582,400


Give it 3 years, or fudge the numbers (nobody does that) and they are the same.

I cannot tell you how it is across the country, but as you say it feels "dirt cheap" to eat and live in China. In other words, the cost of living is A LOT less. I would say 1/2.

So, if 2 economies are approximately the same size, one has 4 times the population but 1/2 the cost of living... My math says your typical Chinese ought to have half the lifestyle as the average American. They do not, obviously. Hence the point. Most money is wasted, stolen, or saved as protection against an uncertain future. China is not a poor country, although that is the position they like to sell to the world. However, what they really have is extremely poor governance, as well as a gambling/get-rich culture that puts America's to shame.

I kind of lost the point of the conversation. I guess there is some debate as to whether China is poor. You say yes. I say no. You say you have seen poor people. So have I. But poor people does not mean the country is poor, just poorly run.

[touchring]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

I kind of lost the point of the conversation. I guess there is some debate as to whether China is poor. You say yes. I say no. You say you have seen poor people. So have I. But poor people does not mean the country is poor, just poorly run.

Exactly, there is extreme wastage and misallocation of resources. The environment has also taken a beating over the last 10 years if you noticed, weather is all scrwed up, drought in Russia, floods in Australia, all this iron, aluminum, and concrete production are powered using coal. And once the building is up, you need electricity, also generated from coal. The world itself will die before everyone in China becomes 'rich'. And perhaps even the earthquakes might be caused by over-mining and over building.

Anyway, the topic is about earthquakes. Latest news:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nati...age-casks.html

The Aug. 23 earthquake that rattled the East Coast apparently shifted massive storage casks containing spent nuclear fuel at the North Anna nuclear power plant in central Virginia.

None of the metal cylinders were damaged and no radiation was released, Dominion Virginia Power told the Virginia Times-Dispatch.

The casks each weigh 115 tons, and rest on concrete pads. A spokesman for the utility likened the situation to hockey pucks on a jostled tray, and said the 16-foot-tall casks shifted from about an inch to 4 1/2 inches. "They just moved because of the vibration," Rick Zuercher told the Richmond Times-Dispatch. "They remained upright and fully intact."

He added: "To date, there has been no significant earthquake-induced damage in safety-related structures or systems important to safety and shutdown cooling."

Officials from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission will examine the seismic action as part of a plant inspection ordered in the wake of the quake. An NRC spokesman, Roger Hannah, told the L.A. Times that a public report on the inspection results can be expected in mid-to-late October. He added, however, that an initial review shows no damage.

Efforts to reach Dominion Power were not successful.

The power station is about 10 miles from the epicenter of the 5.8-magnitude quake, and began running its safety systems on generators after the quake knocked out the plant’s outside power source. Four diesel generators immediately began that backup operation, but then one of those generators broke down.

The two reactors at the plant stopped generating power automatically after the quake.

The North Anna plant is designed to withstand a 5.9 to 6.1 quake. Last week, it came “uncomfortably close” to that maximum, said Edwin Lyman, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a group that advocates stronger regulation of nuclear power.

A much milder quake occurred this morning in Virginia, with a 3.4 magnitude. There were no immediate reports of injury or damages.

[jpatter666]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

We did not know the plant was only designed to meet a quake of that level. Given my family lives only about ten miles away, that's worth knowing (though not much we can do about it now!) :-(

Thanks for the info.

[jpatter666]

7.1 quake in Alaska

Well, touchring, looks like you are on a roll....unfortunately.

[c1ue]

Re: Earthquake hitting major city can create world depression.

Sigh...actually our budget when traveling in China was $50 (for a couple) -- and that was including doing the touristy things and travel. We met up with other travelers who were making it on less.

Our discussion from my side is over. You are continually argumentative, you seem to seek out fights from our and other postings I've seen you on. You must be smarter, wiser and so obviously more informed than everyone else.

I am wasting my own very valuable time here -- and it's done.

Including housing? transportation? tours?

More power to you.

And while you keep saying I'm argumentative, at the same time you've never actually responded to my factual comments. Every response is: I see this, I see that.

Why is there such a huge disconnect between what you see, and what my relatives see?

Between your views and what both the unofficial and official numbers show?

So, if 2 economies are approximately the same size, one has 4 times the population but 1/2 the cost of living... My math says your typical Chinese ought to have half the lifestyle as the average American.

Except the actual income differences are at least 5 to 1.

Per capita income in the US in sum is close to GDP - the same is not true for China.