Why I'm not a Doomer on food

[shiny!]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

Then you're eating processed cellulose the old way: the cow eats grass, you eat the cow.

I'm an old-fashioned girl. An OLD old-fashioned girl.

[raja]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

The reality is that there is one step required to increase food supplies an unimaginable amount: cellulose breakdown.

Humans cannot process it, but cellulose is exactly comprised of those sugars and simpler carbohydrates which we use as food.

Ruminants of all sorts: cows, sheep, and what not are able to convert cellulose into food via symbiotic bacteria in their gut.

Food is comprised of a large number of nutrient components besides sugars and simple carbohydrates that are necessary for health, such as vitamins, minerals, oils, phytonutrients, etc. If you bump up the carbohydrate component of the diet through cellulose conversion, how would you provide for these other necessary nutrients that are needed in conjuction with carbohydrate?

The digestive system of animals can break down cellulose, but their digestive organs also foster abundant microorganisms that create vitamins and other necessary nutritional components. Humans do not have this capability. For example, humans require B12 in their diet, but ruminants don't . . . because ruminants' internal microflora create it and the B12 thus created is absorbed into their system.

Straying from the world of established facts, I believe that creating a synthetic food containing converted cellulose and all the other necessary nutrients might prove too expensive, and may be impossible. We could never know if we've provided every component that is necessary for health. (Consider phytonutrients, which were only discovered to be nutritionally important in the 90s.)

I wouldn't eat synthetic food unless I had absolutely no other choice!

[c1ue]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

Food is comprised of a large number of nutrient components besides sugars and simple carbohydrates that are necessary for health, such as vitamins, minerals, oils, phytonutrients, etc. If you bump up the carbohydrate component of the diet through cellulose conversion, how would you provide for these other necessary nutrients that are needed in conjuction with carbohydrate?

For one thing, while ruminants are able to break down cellulose, the process is very inefficient.

Ruminants have a huge part of their bodies tailored towards this process - including extremely long guts and multiple stomachs, the ability to process gigantic quantities of input, etc etc.

A more efficient process would allow cellulosic carbohydrates to be used a feedstock not only to people, but also for non-ruminant animals like pigs and chickens, or even fish. These animals convert input into meat far more efficiently than cows and sheep.

Cellulosic breakdown also has an impact on soil fertility; the process by which cellulose breaks down in nature is also fairly slow.

[grapejelly]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

I agree, no shortage of food. But it is a good idea to have food stocked up because a supply chain disruption is quite likely. Won't last for more than a few weeks but it's good to have food and water for that period of time if it ever happens.

[aaron]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

Hi Raja,

This synthetic food already with us. We use corn instead of sawdust. It is quite fascinating what they can do with corn.

Synthetic food is not for you. It is for the people who do not read. It is for the starving masses, sort of like McDonald's "food" today. It is for those without a choice. There will be a lot of them.

[aaron]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

I am not a doomer on food for the near term because Obama can produce food for millions of people with one, small executive order. "NO MORE ETHANOL IN CARS";
After that, we would be awash in corn, which can be turned into Chicken Nuggets, pig meat, etc. Hell, we could even drink the ethanol during the transition.

I think this scenario was planned long ago; corn as car fuel makes little sense otherwise.

[Kadriana]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

I agree, no shortage of food. But it is a good idea to have food stocked up because a supply chain disruption is quite likely. Won't last for more than a few weeks but it's good to have food and water for that period of time if it ever happens.

I will never forget the East Coast black out and how many things I took for granted. Luckily, we has taken out cash the day before because all the ATM's were shut down. The grocery stores were shut for a day and when they reopened, they smelled like rotting meat and milk gone bad. My husband and I ended up surving on chips and granola bars for the next two days. Empty store shelves are an intimidating site.

[tojaktoty]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

Regarding algae, I tried some but prefer leafy greens. Also these findings may be of interest:
Detection of the hepatotoxic microcystins in 36 kinds of cyanobacteria Spirulina food products in China. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18569007
Disseminated chlorellosis in a dog. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19176504

For those who've already ate vegan/vegetarian longer term.. any advice for someone interested in experimenting with vegan?

[aaron]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

I am not sure what vegan means, but I did the vegetarian thing (no milk either) for a couple of years.

Advice -> Do not do it. I seemed to have a cold all the time. I gained an extra 20 pounds. It was a very unhealthy diet, in my opinion. Soy is no substitute for meat.

Thanks for the information on the spirulina. It makes sense that my body revolted it.

I just got sucked into those great advertisements and felt I had to try the latest superfood. I have stopped doing that.


If you are interested in a truly healthy diet, our own Dr Roger Mexico has a web site with good information.

[shiny!]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

For those who've already ate vegan/vegetarian longer term.. any advice for someone interested in experimenting with vegan?

tojaktoty: I lived for 22 years as a lacto-vegetarian (milk products but no eggs). My advice is DON'T DO IT.

My theory is that everyBODY is different. There is no such thing as an ideal diet. What works for one body won't work for another. Ask youself: WHY are you considering a vegan diet?

If it's for health, what exactly do you think is better for you by going vegan instead of being an omnivore? Are you SURE that the data you have read against meat is accurate and truthful? More and more evidence shows that the whole cholesterol scare is bad science. As long as you get plenty of fiber in your diet, eating meat can be very healthful.

If you're choosing veganism for social reasons, e.g. "Save the Planet", "grow food for people, not cows", to reduce Global Warming, etc... Here is the best advice I can give you, which I learned at terrible cost to my health:

Your body doesn't know or care about philosophy. Your body doesn't know or care about political correctness. Your body is a collection of cells and they need what they need. Period. Not everyBODY can efficiently convert plant material into protein, and it's a lie for people to insist that we all can. If your body needs protein from meat and you deprive it of meat, you will pay the price. If you substitute meat with goitrogenic soy products, your thyroid, and consequently your entire body will pay the price. Good luck feeling radiantly healthy when you're hypothyroid. And good luck finding a doctor who knows how to treat it properly.

I am an animal lover like you can't believe! For 22 years I didn't eat animals and I wrecked my health. Now, I eat cows and I feel better, although my health has never fully recovered. When I sit down to eat I say a prayer of gratitude for the cow and for the farmer, and I dig in.

I'm fortunate to live in a country that is filled with abundance. I realize that not everybody is so fortunate, but I am not going to deprive myself of meat out of guilt. I'm not going to lay down and die so that others can have their "Perfect World".

I hope this is helpful.

[jk]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

.. any advice for someone interested in experimenting with vegan?

yes, don't do it.
read lierre keith's "the vegetarian myth."
also check out the critique of the china study at http://rawfoodsos.com/

[flintlock]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

I agree, no shortage of food. But it is a good idea to have food stocked up because a supply chain disruption is quite likely. Won't last for more than a few weeks but it's good to have food and water for that period of time if it ever happens.

Thats the way I see it also. I have about two months or so of food. After that, if things have not been resolved in the supply chain, I'll have bigger worries.

[flintlock]

Re: Why I'm not a Doomer on food

All I know is many of the vegan's I know don't look that well. Does that diet affect muscle tone? Some look kind of soft and mushy despite exercising and eating "well".

[aaron]

15 Food Companies That Serve You 'Wood'

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11012...d-so-good.html

Need those steaks to weigh a bit more? No problem, just add wood.

The recent class-action lawsuit brought against Taco Bell raised questions about the quality of food many Americans eat each day.

Chief among those concerns is the use of cellulose (read: wood pulp), an extender whose use in a roster of food products, from crackers and ice creams to puddings and baked goods, is now being exposed. What you're actually paying for -- and consuming -- may be surprising.

>> Bankruptcy Watch: 14 Risky Restaurant Stocks

Cellulose is virgin wood pulp that has been processed and manufactured to different lengths for functionality, though use of it and its variant forms (cellulose gum, powdered cellulose, microcrystalline cellulose, etc.) is deemed safe for human consumption, according to the FDA, which regulates most food industry products. The government agency sets no limit on the amount of cellulose that can be used in food products meant for human consumption. The USDA, which regulates meats, has set a limit of 3.5% on the use of cellulose, since fiber in meat products cannot be recognized nutritionally.

>> Jump Directly to the Slideshow

"As commodity prices continue to rally and the cost of imported materials impacts earnings, we expect to see increasing use of surrogate products within food items. Cellulose is certainly in higher demand and we expect this to continue," Michael A. Yoshikami, chief investment strategist at YCMNet Advisors, told TheStreet.

Manufacturers use cellulose in food as an extender, providing structure and reducing breakage, said Dan Inman, director of research and development at J. Rettenmaier USA, a company that supplies "organic" cellulose fibers for use in a variety of processed foods and meats meant for human and pet consumption, as well as for plastics, cleaning detergents, welding electrodes, pet litter, automotive brake pads, glue and reinforcing compounds, construction materials, roof coating, asphalt and even emulsion paints, among many other products.

Cellulose adds fiber to the food, which is good for people who do not get the recommended daily intake of fiber in their diets, Inman said. It also extends the shelf life of processed foods. Plus, cellulose's water-absorbing properties can mimic fat, he said, allowing consumers to reduce their fat intake.

Perhaps most important to food processors is that cellulose is cheaper, he added, because "the fiber and water combination is less expensive than most other ingredients in the [food] product."

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: 15 Food Companies That Serve You 'Wood'

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11012...d-so-good.html

Need those steaks to weigh a bit more? No problem, just add wood.

For years now I've been annoyed that the chicken I buy contains "... up to 15% broth".
That's two-and-a-half ounces of water in every pound of chicken I buy.