BP, its a nightmare!

[reggie]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65L6IA20100622

Methane in Gulf "astonishingly high": U.S. scientist
Julie Steenhuysen
CHICAGO
Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:58pm EDT

CHICAGO (Reuters) - As much as 1 million times the normal level of methane gas has been found in some regions near the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, enough to potentially deplete oxygen and create a dead zone, U.S. scientists said on Tuesday.


Texas A&M University oceanography professor John Kessler, just back from a 10-day research expedition near the BP Plc oil spill in the gulf, says methane gas levels in some areas are "astonishingly high."
Kessler's crew took measurements of both surface and deep water within a 5-mile (8 kilometer) radius of BP's broken wellhead.
"There is an incredible amount of methane in there," Kessler told reporters in a telephone briefing.
In some areas, the crew of 12 scientists found concentrations that were 100,000 times higher than normal.
"We saw them approach a million times above background concentrations" in some areas, Kessler said.
The scientists were looking for signs that the methane gas had depleted levels of oxygen dissolved in the water needed to sustain marine life.
"At some locations, we saw depletions of up to 30 percent of oxygen based on its natural concentration in the waters. At other places, we saw no depletion of oxygen in the waters. We need to determine why that is," he told the briefing.
Methane occurs naturally in sea water, but high concentrations can encourage the growth of microbes that gobble up oxygen needed by marine life.
Kessler said oxygen depletions have not reached a critical level yet, but the oil is still spilling into the Gulf, now at a rate of as much as 60,000 barrels a day, according to U.S. government estimates.
"What is it going to look like two months down the road, six months down the road, two years down the road?" he asked.
Methane, a natural gas, dissolves in seawater and some scientists think measuring methane could give a more accurate picture of the extent of the oil spill.
Kessler said his team has taken those measurements, and is hoping to have an estimate soon.
"Give us about a week and we should have some preliminary numbers on that," he said.

So, Methane is now being demonized. My immediate reaction is to speculate on why this particular gas is being targeted. An initial thought might be that stricter regulation of this gas is sought. A possible reason for this could be tighter controls over meat production.

Anyway, just one thought experiment that may or may not explain the rationale behind the latest round of propaganda.

[Chomsky]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

So, Methane is now being demonized. My immediate reaction is to speculate on why this particular gas is being targeted. An initial thought might be that stricter regulation of this gas is sought. A possible reason for this could be tighter controls over meat production.

Anyway, just one thought experiment that may or may not explain the rationale behind the latest round of propaganda.

Yawn. Another brittle aphorism and feint towards supposed enlightenment. Your posts are like the ramblings of stoned college students -- only interesting to the ones speaking.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

I want to see the calculations. SHOW ME. I am a slow learner, and I need help here. Convince me.

And who are these so-called "scientists"????????

What makes a methane level, "astonishing"?????????? Hell, it was only a decade or so ago that oceanographers even discovered methane deposits on the floor of this planet's oceans. I would think that no-one knows what a normal background level of methane is anywhere on this planet, so I need to know why I should be astonished about what these so-called "scientists" have discovered in the Gulf of Mexico.

And what makes a "dead zone", dead? I mean, what kind of non-science are you pedalling here?

May I ask: What makes an ecosystem "delicate"? Maybe the Democrats might buy into this non-science, but I sure do NOT. And I have seven years of education in geography, climatology, and
health physics.

Ever since 9th-grade high school biology, I understood that evolution will not allow "delicate" eco-systems to succeed and survive on this planet. One of the key principles of evolution is that only the strong survive.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

....And who are these so-called "scientists"????????
...

Steve, you get so worked up. It took me 30 seconds to find his bio / cv. You aren't even trying to know things, just shouting.

Dr. Kessler is a young assistant professor. His specialty is the chemistry of methane in sea water. He's legit. The kid has stumbled into the research opportunity of a lifetime , lucky break for a hyper-specialized young scientist. Some reporter stuck a microphone in his face, he spoke, now you are angry with him.
Sheesh.



Here's his credentials:

Dr. John Kessler
Assistant Professor
Ph.D. Earth System Science, University of California Irvine, 2005
M.S. Earth System Science, University of California Irvine, 2003
B.S. Chemistry and Mathematics, Gettysburg College, 1998
Bio
Dr. Kessler is a chemical oceanographer who focuses on isotope biogeochemistry to elucidate how gases in the ocean cycle and ultimately participate in global climate change. He is particularly interested in oceanic methane which, due to the dynamic nature and massive size of the relatively unexplored oceanic methane system, has the potential for feedbacks with climate. Dr. Kessler’s research strives to quantify sources, sinks, and fluxes of oceanic methane using analytical chemistry measurements with particular emphasis on stable and radiocarbon isotopes. These measurements are then used in regional geochemical models to quantify methane biogeochemical cycling. In past projects, these techniques were used to study methane geochemistry in the Bering Sea, Cariaco Basin, Black Sea, and Southern California Bight to determine 1) whether methane was formed by biological, abiological (e.g. serpentization), or thermogenic processes and 2) what the present-day fluxes of methane are from sediments, methane clathrate hydrates, hydrocarbon seeps, vents, and mud volcanoes.
Dr. Kessler’s research is heavily rooted in analytical chemistry and he is presently developing a portable Cavity-Ringdown Spectrometer to make measurements of methane concentration and stable isotopes (δ2H-CH4 and δ13C-CH4) in the field thus eliminating hours of sample processing and any artifacts introduced by transporting samples back to the laboratory for analysis.
Prospective Graduate Students
Research Interests
GENERAL
• Isotope geochemistry
• Analytical chemistry
SPECIFIC
• Understanding oceanic methane’s role in past, present, and future global carbon cycles and global climate change.
• Determining sources and sinks of oceanic methane with natural isotopic measurements.
• Quantifying the present day release rate of methane from hydrocarbon seeps, vents, and decomposing clathrate hydrates with analytical geochemical measurements and mathematical models
More Information on Kessler's Research Interests
Projects
• Developing a portable Cavity-Ringdown Spectrometer for shipboard measurements of methane concentration, δ2H-CH4, and δ13C-CH4
• Understanding the source of elevated levels of radiocarbon in methane dissolved in the subsurface ocean
• Quantifying the cycling of methane released from seeps in the Cariaco Basin
Past and Present Projects with Pictures
Experience
• 2008-present, Assistant Professor Department of Oceanography, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas.
• 2005-2008, Postdoctoral Research Associate, Department of Geosciences, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
• 2000-2005, Graduate Research Assistant, Department of Earth Systems Science, University of California Irvine, Irvine, CA
• 1998-2000, Research Chemist, Atmospheric Chemistry Group, National Institute of Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, MD
Publications
• Pape, T., A. Bahr, J. Rethemeyer, J. D. Kessler, H. Sahling, K. Hinrichs, S. A. Klapp, W. S. Reeburgh, G. Bohrmann (2010). "Molecular and isotopic partitioning of low-molecular-weight hydrocarbons during migration and gas hydrate precipitation in deposits of a high-flux seepage site." Chemical Geology, 269 (3-4), 350–363, doi:10.1016/j.chemgeo.2009.10.009.
• Kessler, J.D., W.S. Reeburgh, D.L. Valentine, F.S. Kinnaman, E.T. Peltzer, P.G. Brewer, J. Southon, and S.C. Tyler (2008). “A survey of methane isotope abundance (14C, 13C, 2H) from five nearshore marine basins that reveals unusual radiocarbon levels in subsurface waters.” Journal of Geophysical Research, 113, C12021, doi:10.1029/2008JC004822.
• Kessler, J.D., W.S. Reeburgh , S.C. Tyler (2006). “ Controls on Methane Concentration and Stable Isotope (δ2H-CH4 and δ13C-CH4) Distributions in the water columns of the Black Sea and Cariaco Basin .” Global Biogeochemical Cycles, 20 (4), GB4004, doi:10.1029/2005GB002571.
• Kessler, J.D., W.S. Reeburgh, J. Southon, R. Seifert, W. Michaelis, S.C. Tyler (2006). “Basin-wide Estimates of Input of Methane from Seeps and Clathrates to the Black Sea .” Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 243, 366-375.
• Onstott, T.C., D. McGown, J. Kessler, B. Sherwood Lollar, K.K. Lehmann, S.M. Clifford (2006). “Martian CH4: Sources, Flux, and Detection.” Astrobiology, 6 (2), 377-395.
• Kessler, J.D., W.S. Reeburgh, J. Southon, R. Varela (2005). “Fossil Methane Source Dominates Cariaco Basin Water Column Methane Geochemistry.” Geophysical Research Letters, 32, L12609, doi:10.1029/2005GL022984.
• Kessler, J.D. and W.S. Reeburgh (2005). “Preparation of Natural Methane Samples for Stable Isotope and Radiocarbon Analysis.” Limnology and Oceanography: Methods, 3, 408-418. [PDF]
• Currie, L.A. and J.D. Kessler (2005). “On the isolation of elemental carbon (EC) for micro-molar 14C accelerator mass spectrometry: development of a hybrid reference material for 14C-EC accuracy assurance, and a critical evaluation of the thermal optical kinetic (TOK) isolation procedure.” Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, 5, 2833-2845.
• Currie, L.A. , J.D. Kessler, R.A. Fletcher, J.E. Dibb (2005). “Long range transport of biomass aerosol to Greenland : Multi-spectroscopic investigation of particles deposited in snow.” Journal of Radioanalytical and Nuclear Chemistry, 263 (2), 399-411.
• Currie, L.A., B.A. Benner, Jr, H. Cachier, R. Cary, J.C. Chow, E.R.M. Druffel, T.I. Eglinton, O. Gustafsson, P.C. Hartmann, J.I. Hedges, J.D. Kessler, T.W. Kirchstetter, D.B. Klinedinst, G.A. Klouda, J.V. Marolf, C.A. Masiello, T. Novakov, A. Pearson, K.M. Prentice, H. Puxbaum, J.G. Quinn, C.M. Reddy, H. Schmid, J.F. Slater, J. Watson, and S.A. Wise (2002). "A Critical Evaluation of Interlaboratory Data on Total, Elemental, and Isotopic Carbon in the Carbonaceous Particle Reference Material, NIST SRM 1649a." Journal of Research of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, 107, 279-298. [PDF]
• Currie, L.A., J.D. Kessler, J.V. Marolf, A.P. McNichol, D.R. Stuart, J.C. Donoghue, D.J. Donahue, G.S. Burr, D. Biddulph (2000). “Low-level (submicromole) Environmental 14C Metrology.” Nuclear Instruments and Methods B, 172, 440-448

[Chris Coles]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

Thank you thrifty, (you are never boring), Kessler is surely as good as it gets and we are lucky someone of that calibre is prepared to try and understand the problem in detail.

As I see it from the previous paper by Gregory Ryskin, once the water column is saturated, becomes stagnant and the Oxygen is depleted, then there is no further depletion of the Methane which can become the dominant gas in the water column. So this is something that will need very careful monitoring.

[reggie]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

I want to see the calculations. SHOW ME. I am a slow learner, and I need help here. Convince me.

And who are these so-called "scientists"????????

What makes a methane level, "astonishing"?????????? Hell, it was only a decade or so ago that oceanographers even discovered methane deposits on the floor of this planet's oceans. I would think that no-one knows what a normal background level of methane is anywhere on this planet, so I need to know why I should be astonished about what these so-called "scientists" have discovered in the Gulf of Mexico.

And what makes a "dead zone", dead? I mean, what kind of non-science are you pedalling here?

May I ask: What makes an ecosystem "delicate"? Maybe the Democrats might buy into this non-science, but I sure do NOT. And I have seven years of education in geography, climatology, and health physics.

Ever since 9th-grade high school biology, I understood that evolution will not allow "delicate" eco-systems to succeed and survive on this planet. One of the key principles of evolution is that only the strong survive.

So, I got an admin to call up Kessler's office and request a copy of what he's actually published so far. I got back this 1-1/2 page Word doc. from the person handling media inquiries for the professor. We were told that this is all that has been officially released to date.

So sorry to bore the intellectual snobs in the room. Wow, the indoctrination in here is stiffing. Am I supposed to be intimidated, or afraid of ostracism?

Background material for the PLUMES Research Expedition
Dr. John Kessler, Oceanography, College of Geosciences


Funding for the original proposal
http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=1042650

Methane background and talking points

1. Of the spilling material, 40% by weight is natural gas.
2. The main chemical component of this natural gas is methane.
3. Methane is a very potent greenhouse gas and the seafloor worldwide
stores massive amounts of methane.
4. This spill is too small to influence the methane content in the
atmosphere and thus will not influence modern climate.
5. Massive eruptions of natural gas from the seafloor have occurred in
the geological past and this spill simulates one of those eruptions.
Thus we can study this spill to understand if these previous (natural)
massive eruptions in the past influenced climate and how they might
behave in the future.
6. Microorganisms in the water eat natural gas and methane. This
process consumes oxygen dissolved in the water. We will measure how
much oxygen is being removed by natural gas and methane in the waters of
the Gulf.


Sent from the R/V Cape Hatteras, June 18, 2010
Initial and Tentative Findings from the PLUMES (Persistent Localized
Underwater Methane Emission Study) research expedition to the oil spill area in the Gulf of Mexico, onboard the R/V Cape Hatteras from June 11-20, 2010.


A team of scientists lead by Dr. John D. Kessler (Texas A&M University
College Station), with significant contributions by Dr. David Valentine
(University of California Santa Barbara) and Dr. Rainer Amon (Texas A&M
University Galveston) are concluding a 10-day study of natural gas and oil
emitted from the broken riser pipe of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of
Mexico. The team, funded primarily by the National Science Foundation with
additional support from the Department of Energy, investigated how natural
gas and oil might contribute to emission of greenhouse gases and the
depletion of oxygen in this region. They sailed upon the research vessel
Cape Hatteras, owned by NSF and operated by the Duke University/University
of North Carolina Marine Consortium. The team is assembling maps of surface
and deepwater plumes of oil and natural gas based on their preliminary
results. Several localized plumes of hydrocarbons exist in the bottom third
of the ocean water, as evidenced by sensor readings and shipboard chemical
analyses. Natural gas dissolved in waters below 3000 feet depth is
displaying substantial increases above background. The ramifications of
these findings are the topics of their current studies and must await many
additional analyses and calculations before final results are available.


Science magazine article about the research


Dr. Kesslier’s biographic information

Interesting that BP dumped all the Corexit in the water killing all the Microorganisms. Hmmm.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

So, I got an admin to call up Kessler's office and request a copy of what he's actually published so far. I got back this 1-1/2 page Word doc. from the person handling media inquiries for the professor. We were told that this is all that has been officially released to date.

So sorry to bore the intellectual snobs in the room. Wow, the indoctrination in here is stiffing. Am I supposed to be intimidated, or afraid of ostracism?

Good work getting as close as possible to the original information.
What do you make of it?

[Chomsky]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

So sorry to bore the intellectual snobs in the room. Wow, the indoctrination in here is stiffing. Am I supposed to be intimidated, or afraid of ostracism?

It's not that you are wrong on any one point, or wrong to be paranoid in general; what galls is the smugness and contemptuous faux-elitism you flaunt, assholier than thou.

[reggie]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

Good work getting as close as possible to the original information.
What do you make of it?

The agenda this Summer was getting through carbon taxes and shutting down domestic energy. That's what was next on the plate after 'health care'.

By August they'll have the public so worn out and brainwashed on this that they'll get what they want.

Kessler's media attention supports that agenda.

But hey, I'm just the nutjob postulating brittle aphorisms with a feint towards supposed enlightenment. WTF do I know. Stay within your existing authorized frame, it's safe inside.

On edit - Signed: Assholier of the Universe!

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

The agenda this Summer was getting through carbon taxes and shutting down domestic energy. That's what was next on the plate after 'health care'.

You left out House, Senate leaders finalize details of sweeping financial overhaul.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

It's not that ...

Well said, Chomsky.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Methane in Large Quantities. . .

LOL! My unsolicited advice - unplug the computer and television for a few hours, have a beer, enjoy the evening, come back later.

[gnk]

Re: BP, its a nightmare!

People in the Ukraine now eat vegetables and mushrooms grown in Chernobyl soil. They have suffered no apparent ill effects from the radionuclides left-over from the Chernobyl melt-down, at least not from those in their diet.

That's your best response? My point in bringing up Chernobyl is that environmentalists and lawyers, that you despise, directly or indirectly, have an effect on safety regulations at Nuclear reactors. In the USSR, there were no lawuits threatening them like the US would have.

In the GoM, there is a government cap of $75 million in liability for offshore drillers. If the government never placed that cap - the potential liability would be tremendous, due to the lawyers you despise. But guess what? The insurance companies would make damn sure that what they are insuring was legit, and no corners were cut. BP, by far, had the worst record of any GoM driller.

You also said:

But don't believe me; go see the real evidence for yourself, with your own eyes, of how nature works. Pick the oil up with your fingers and smell it. The evidence is quite clear about how the Earth naturally leaks oil into the environment, and oil is not a pollutant.

Is it safe to drink a glass of naturally ocurring petroleum out of the ground?

[Chomsky]

Re: BP, its a nightmare!

gnk, respectfully: don't bother with SS. There's just no point. It's like talking to drying paint.

[reggie]

Re: BP, its a nightmare!

gnk, respectfully: don't bother with SS. There's just no point. It's like talking to drying paint.

Are you the frame enforcer here?