US Marine: I will Fight American Civilians

[lakedaemonian]

Re: US Marine: I will Fight American Civilians

I agree with Ash.

I think we need to be particularly careful in what we post and in what context it is likely to be perceived.

It would be easy for this community to be categorized as a conspiracy theorizing tea party haven of black helicopter fearing nutters in broad brush strokes.

I see the iTulip community as performing several roles on several levels.

I feel I have my personal training wheels off and I'm riding somewhat independantly of the pack...but always checking in to compare/contrast.

I also refer many folks to iTulip...and am a bit concerned that if we continue down this track that I'll be less likely to do so in the future, and I will have one less very important educational forum to share with those I meet at a time when the need for increased awareness and understanding is increasingly important.

It feels like we are at risk of filling the forum with hay instead of focusing on the needle.

Just my 0.02c

[radon]

Re: US Marine: I will Fight American Civilians

There was an incident with one of the sections having their juniors walk right up to the CO and Company 1st Sgt and ask for, get this, ******* TRASH CAN LINERS???!!!

Heh, I bet that went over well.

Maybe there could be a holding area for new threads before they get put on the front page. Readers could vote on it and when it gets enough votes it goes up front. It could be quarantine for provocative news articles. Either that or make FRED read them.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: US Marine: I will Fight American Civilians

I agree with Ash.

I think we need to be particularly careful in what we post and in what context it is likely to be perceived.

It would be easy for this community to be categorized as a conspiracy theorizing tea party haven of black helicopter fearing nutters in broad brush strokes.

I see the iTulip community as performing several roles on several levels.

I feel I have my personal training wheels off and I'm riding somewhat independantly of the pack...but always checking in to compare/contrast.

I also refer many folks to iTulip...and am a bit concerned that if we continue down this track that I'll be less likely to do so in the future, and I will have one less very important educational forum to share with those I meet at a time when the need for increased awareness and understanding is increasingly important.

It feels like we are at risk of filling the forum with hay instead of focusing on the needle.

Just my 0.02c

At the same time, and I say this as a worker in the financial services industry in Manhattan, there is a broad awareness amongst people at every level that whatever it is we have in the United States - it is not a free market and it is not the Republic about which they learned as children.

The mistake you are making is looking for a non-political cause to our present predicament. Politics, now more than ever, is all that really matters. Market forces have no impact upon the "economy" as we understand it. It all, ultimately, stems from those who wield political power whether indirectly or directly.

Those who seek conspiracies must merely acknowledge that it is we the people who have allowed this to happen. Most have accepted, and continue to accept, a political system that is so obviously deeply flawed it is clear we are dealing with a mass delusion of epic proportions. If anything, it is no more insane to believe in black helicopters than the fiction that the United States Government is a legitimate government entity or that it is the best system of governance.

At best, itulip is a forum for discussing how our presently corrupt government will attempt to slow the inevitable political disintegration. Clearly, since the collapse of Lehman Brothers, that has amounted to nothing more than cranking the printing press. Surely, we can all agree that is untenable.

In time, more drastic solutions will be necessary. But let's try to enjoy life while we can.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: US Marine: I will Fight American Civilians

At the same time, and I say this as a worker in the financial services industry in Manhattan, there is a broad awareness amongst people at every level that whatever it is we have in the United States - it is not a free market and it is not the Republic about which they learned as children.

The mistake you are making is looking for a non-political cause to our present predicament. Politics, now more than ever, is all that really matters. Market forces have no impact upon the "economy" as we understand it. It all, ultimately, stems from those who wield political power whether indirectly or directly.

Those who seek conspiracies must merely acknowledge that it is we the people who have allowed this to happen. Most have accepted, and continue to accept, a political system that is so obviously deeply flawed it is clear we are dealing with a mass delusion of epic proportions. If anything, it is no more insane to believe in black helicopters than the fiction that the United States Government is a legitimate government entity or that it is the best system of governance.

At best, itulip is a forum for discussing how our presently corrupt government will attempt to slow the inevitable political disintegration. Clearly, since the collapse of Lehman Brothers, that has amounted to nothing more than cranking the printing press. Surely, we can all agree that is untenable.

In time, more drastic solutions will be necessary. But let's try to enjoy life while we can.

Firstly, I'm not sure how you have jumped to the conclusion of a "mistake I am making" <----paraphrasing.

Based on what exactly?

While my own personal economic and financial doctrine/thesis has been quickly changing course in the last 5+ years and more sharply honed here at iTulip helping me to better see the 'rigged" aspects of our financial lives, for the life of me I can't quite determine how you've jumped to conclusions on my own personal pilitical doctrine/thesis?

Being a student of Political Science...amongst other things as a Uni student...I certainly had a lot of aspirational ideas of our specific flavour of democracy on paper.

But it was campaign finance reform...or more specifically...the complete lack of any worthwhile campaign finance reform that I saw a long time ago as the achilles heal of American Democracy....and that included some limited time and experience directly lobbying Members of Congress.

Personally, I believe I hold a fairly accurate, albeit cynical, perspective on American Democracy....or the more accurate description being dollar democracy.

I try not to carry around much ego, as I'm here to learn....but I also know that accusations become the truth if not refuted.

I'm happy to take my knocks when and where deserved.....but I cannot see how they are warranted in this case.

Have a look at my post history.......I'm like a broken record at times trying to encourage debate in the grey area merged between economics and geopolitics.

As far as the black helicopters go.....quite frankly it makes me cringe.

As stated I think we work on a couple levels here:

While I am certainly here to improve my level of understanding and better safeguard my family's financial future......I am also trying to recommend this platform to as many folks I know who have a willingness to consider something beyond just mainstream indoctrination.

I quite strongly believe that the possibility exists for our community's collective reputation to be damaged or marginalized if interests opposed to it were focused on reducing it's perceived public educational value.

And if that happens, then it means there will be a smaller number of financially, economically, and politically educated Americans to help positively shape the perception of the financially, economically, and politically illiterate masses.

While I would not want to see an unintended consequence, such as the damage caused by groupthink financial analysis as mentioned here on iTulip, I think it would probably be a good idea to consider asking the following question:

"Would I have posted that with my real name and stand by it to the end if it were on the front page of Drudge/Huffington/NYTimes for my friends/family/peers to see?"

Personally, I think both the iTulip Management and the iTulip Community need to ruthlessly continue to monitor and adjust the signal to noise ratio and evolve as a community or risk becoming irrelevant.

Feel free to hold me to a higher standard.....just make sure to check your facts.

Just my 0.02c

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: US Marine: I will Fight American Civilians

Personally, I think both the iTulip Management and the iTulip Community need to ruthlessly continue to monitor and adjust the signal to noise ratio and evolve as a community or risk becoming irrelevant.

Feel free to hold me to a higher standard.....just make sure to check your facts.

Just my 0.02c

I agree that the conspiracy theories should be deleted, but the official itulip position is one of anticipating political reactions to our "economy".

I don't necessarily have all the answers, but I agree with the many great thinkers from Plato to Spengler that democracy is the worst possible system of governance. Democracy is dead. The replacement of the priest and nobles with shopkeepers and usurers has been nothing less than a total disaster for Western Civilization and the world. The Enlightenment principles upon which modernity rests - i.e. the Lockean notion of human nature and utilitarianism have been proven conclusive failures. Yet, it is these principles that underly every modern economic theory, i.e. that society exists to give the people what they want and that what the people want is the ultimate goal of society.

I simply hope that rather than look for those who exploit the system, we simply acknowledge that the system is broken and that it is time to find a new one before a Caesar rises to bring order to our decaying civilization. Many learned men far more brilliant than you or I believe that is fate, that it is a future from which we cannot escape. Maybe that's so, but we can certainly try.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: US Marine: I will Fight American Civilians

I agree that the conspiracy theories should be deleted, but the official itulip position is one of anticipating political reactions to our "economy".

As the resident ConspiratorialCow, I will confess to not paying much attention to which forum I am in. Would you (or ASH or others) prefer that I keep my more insane comments off the News forum?

[Sharky]

Re: US Marine: I will Fight American Civilians

The replacement of the priest and nobles with shopkeepers and usurers has been nothing less than a total disaster for Western Civilization and the world. The Enlightenment principles upon which modernity rests - i.e. the Lockean notion of human nature and utilitarianism have been proven conclusive failures. Yet, it is these principles that underly every modern economic theory, i.e. that society exists to give the people what they want and that what the people want is the ultimate goal of society.

For several thousand years before the Enlightenment, the world was filled with abject poverty, slavery, disease, early death and other such "pleasantries," which the philosophies of the time repeatedly failed to address. The Enlightenment, starting about 300 years ago, brought with it a never-before seen increase in world-wide wealth, prosperity, health and life expectancy. To call it a "conclusive failure" is to evade the reality of what life was like before the Enlightenment. Actually, the Enlightenment was one of the most immense successes in all of human history.

In fact, I would argue that the problems of today are happening precisely because the world has strayed away from the core principles of the Enlightenment: namely freedom, democracy and reason as the core values of society. Instead, collectivism has infected the public consciousness, and we appear to be on a path back to the Dark Ages, where mysticism and emotion ruled the day. Just as the Dark Ages followed the collapse of the Roman Empire, perhaps the new Dark Ages are destined to follow the collapse of the American Empire.