British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

[Nero]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

The one thing that has always bothered me was that the 3rd building, building number 7 imploded without any airliner hitting it.

That has never before happened to a skyscraper in history.

[WDCRob]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

Jesus you guys scare me sometimes.

[c1ue]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

If you're going to insist on refighting the last war over and over - at least bring some new arguments to the table.

This entire nano-thermite crap has been talked about at great length in multiple threads - in fact by a number of the same people.

April 2009
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=90182
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=89469

September 2009
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11845

Dead Horse. Stick. Avoid.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

What exactly are you talking about?

WWII? Jet fuel??

Do you have a reference as I have never heard of such a thing...

Jet fuel is kerosene.

[flintlock]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

Why not just use the nano-thermite, skip the airplanes, and blame it on the terrorists? After all, they'd already tried once before with conventional explosives? I mean, we attacked Iraq based on shaky grounds. Why blow up our own building just to go after some two bit terrorist? Its not the individual parts of the truther argument that are so illogical. Its the sum of the parts. Too many things had to be set in place. Any conspiracy that complicated almost always falls apart. A failed conspiracy is very dangerous to the conspirators. Ask Count von Stauffenberg.:eek:

I'm no engineer, but I find it perfectly feasible that the buildings merely collapsed like the official report said. You have be able to get your mind around the sheer size of those towers. Each floor was one acre. Thats over 43,000 sq ft. Now add all the floors above the damage. Now drop that massive section 10-30 feet down. Its going to keep moving folks. Down, down, down. Picking up momentum and more weight as it falls. Pancake city. Sure it looked like the demolitions we see all the time. I thought that also at the time I saw it happen. It was a demolition of sorts. Only instead of starting at the ground floor, it started many stories above the ground.

As far as building seven goes, the ground floors were obviously undermined and damaged by the twin towers collapsing around it. Where do you think 110 stories of rubble goes? It doesn't just pile up around the other buildings. It goes through them! It has not happened before in history because we've never had two 110 story sky scrapers collapse before! I read the force of the collapse was the equivalent of 1/5 the Hiroshima bomb. To think a building next door could escape serious foundation damage is not logical. I've seen failed controlled demolitions where the building failed to collapse first but later came down. Why is this any different?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

I'm no engineer, but I find it perfectly feasible that the buildings merely collapsed like the official report said.

Well, this is a little frustrating.

EJ apparently more or less agrees with you. Furthermore, this is his site, and from what I can tell, he prefers not to have dissenting views or evidence on this particular topic presented here in any significant way.

Just please note that my further silence on this thread does not imply my agreement with the position you (and several other respected iTuliper's) stated here.

I do not believe that one can reasonably expect to anticipate or analyze our political or economic circumstances unless one understands the extent of the corruption, and the events of 9/11 are critical to that understanding.

[flintlock]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

PC, I'm open to someone explaining to me their arguments. I sincerely want to know what happened. But even if they found residue from a nuclear explosion, I would have to have more to convince me that any conspiracy was involved in this case.

The TV show I watched explained how these conspiracy theories come to occur. There is a pattern. Most proponents of the conspiracy are not willing to give a plausible A-Z scenario, but rather show various bits and pieces of evidence that "do not add up". Leaving to the non-believer, the burden of proving it was not a conspiracy. They may cite the lack of a deeper investigation as proof of a conspiracy. Most of these theories fall apart when forced to give a scenario of what they think occurred. Some truther theories given on that show were downright hilarious. Claims of the original flights being forced down by Air Force planes to secret airfields, only to be replaced by identical "fake" planes. Lots of far fetched stuff, fueled by watching too many episodes of "24" or reading too many Tom Clancy novels.

That show also claimed that conspiracy theorists in general like them because it gives them a sense of intellectual superiority. That they know something the rest of us don't. That only someone with superior intellect could understand.

I was a JFK assassination conspiracy buff for a long time. The bits and pieces of evidence did just not add up. Too many connections between assorted characters. But in the end, I realized that coincidences do happen. I went from leaning 75% towards conspiracy to about 90% against it now. I do think there was some cover up, but more to hide screw ups and other embarrassing things than anything sinister.

As far as the nano-thermite argument, I am willing to concede, for the sake of argument, that it may be possible to bring down a building with it. But where are these samples coming from? Was there a proper chain of custody? Would anyone planting this truly risk being caught by some overzealous security guard gunning for a promotion? Was some G. Gordon Liddy type involved? Even Liddy wouldn't murder 3000 people. And it would take more than a few men to do that deed. I just don't see it.

But heck, this is rant and rave, so convince me.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

flintlock -- I recommend JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, by James W. Douglass (2008). It provides a rich and persuasive tapestry of details, including various first hand reports and details I've not seen before.

As to the subject of this thread, I don't know of an on-line forum suitable for such a discussion. If you were a next door neighbor, we could spend many evenings over some weeks or months examining the primary evidence in detail, over some good beer or wine. Eventually I am confident that you would be persuaded that The Official Story was incorrect, and that it took a serious amount of high explosives or other such intense energy sources to convert those buildings to a cloud of dust in 10 seconds. Those buildings did not collapse. They were rapidly pulverized into fine powder.

But this is not a forum that welcomes such detailed analysis. I know of no reputable on-line forum that does welcome such.

[Ghent12]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

Eventually I am confident that you would be persuaded that The Official Story was incorrect, and that it took a serious amount of high explosives or other such intense energy sources to convert those buildings to a cloud of dust in 10 seconds. Those buildings did not collapse. They were rapidly pulverized into fine powder.

Except for the irrefutable video evidence showing the top sections of the towers collapsing onto the impacted area...

But this is not a forum that welcomes such detailed analysis. I know of no reputable on-line forum that does welcome such.

Indeed.

[skyson]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

Why not just use the nano-thermite, skip the airplanes, and blame it on the terrorists?

In the original post, the British Institute of Nanotechnology state:"This advanced explosive incorporating nanotechnology is only available to sophisticated military labs".

The Arabs in a cave certainly won't have access to this explosive, I guess. Simply, if there is nanotechnology involved, the suspect is readily identifiable.

There are two interesting characteristics of nano-thermite from what I gethered from the Jesse Ventura video: first, it is non-reactive when it is in liquid form; second, it has to be ignited by high temperature for it to react in dry form.

I am dreaming a scenario here: 1. to apply the nano-thermite onto the steel columns, simply tell the renovation contractors to paint a layer of fresh "anti-rust" paint(which is pre-mixed with nano-thermite) over them. 2. to install the sequential wireless ignition device, ask the technicians to install "wireless routers and signal boosters" at key points of the building.

See, you could install the explosive and ignition devices in the building without anyone knowing it. To the unsuspected parties (contractors/network technicians), they were just normal paint/network equipments. The only one need to know the plan is the renovation planner and equipment provider.

There I solved the too many people involved mystery! If it is only that easy...

However, the most problem I have with this case is the way US government handled the investigation. It looked so much like the suspects were pre-identified before the attack. In fact they were identified and their homes were search on day one of the attack.

Despite extensive investigation of 9 years now and numerous discrepancies, no new suspects identified, no one from the original list acquitted. How can that be possible? Such a sophisticated attack only involved 19+1 persons?

From an investigation point of view, pursuing a pre-determined list of suspects and disregarding any other contradictory evidence is fatal to a successful investigation. There are many examples which investigators' eagerness to prove their cases resulted in tragic consequences: innocent people's lives destroyed, and real criminals never identified.

Two famous cases:

O.J. Simpson murder case: from the get go, O.J. was the prime suspect and LAPD were determined to prove him guilty. However, in his memoir(the one I read is in Chinese), Dr. Henry Lee (lead expert witness for the defendant) stated that from all available evidences he was certain O.J. was not the one who committed the murder. And after ten years independent investigation, William C. Dear alleged that in fact O.J.'s son and another unidentified suspect were the possible true criminals in this case.

JonBenét Ramsey case: her parents were the only suspects that the police pursued in this case, and On July 9, 2008, the Boulder District Attorney's office announced that as a result of newly developed DNA sampling and testing techniques, the Ramsey family members are no longer considered suspects in the case. And her mother already died of cancer. How tragic.

Yet, for whatever reason, in the case of 9/11 attack, the US government seems to be only interested in proving the "19+1" scenario. That is, from day one of the attack, til today.

However, if you have paid attention, you will have to agree:

1. the 19 hijackers were never proven in court. Who were these people? Were they the ones who actually boarded the planes? Were they the people who they claimed to be?
2. Bin Laden was not charged for the crime of 9/11. See FBI Most Wanted.
3. FBI publicly admitted they have "no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to the attack of WTC in 2001". This fact is easy to verified. Just contact the FBI yourself or via your congress man. Ask the question, and seek the answer.

That is where the German judge Dieter Deiseroth coming from (see original post). There are serious questions need to be asked. Especially for US citizens, it is your duty to ask those questions. Otherwise, you are as complicit as your government in the war crimes committed in the name of "fighting terror" after 9/11.

Finally, we all know now that Sadam Hussein did not have weapon of mass destruction after all.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

Except for the irrefutable video evidence showing the top sections of the towers collapsing onto the impacted area...

Correct. There were some elements of momentary collapse of upper portions when something below them turned to dust first. But in the space of ten seconds all but a few fragments of blown out steel girders was converted to fine dust.

[phirang]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

Here's what I DO know: the US specops and CIA DO set off carbombs in Iraq and 'stan when it's convenient, women and children included.

Not sure if they "shit where they eat," but who knows eh?

[Ghent12]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

Correct. There were some elements of momentary collapse of upper portions when something below them turned to dust first. But in the space of ten seconds all but a few fragments of blown out steel girders was converted to fine dust.

That's called buckling. It's what happens when a material is subjected to a load greater than what its compression strength can withstand. In this case it wasn't the load that was getting heavier, it was the compression strength that was getting reduced as the fire started to warm work the steel which was in the process of recrystallizing. Remember, 400 degrees C is 30% of the melting point of steel, and that is when recrystallization begins to occur in earnest. Combine that with the enormous dynamic load of the airliner impact, which assuredly left residual strain and made the supports weaker, not stronger (in addition to removing parts of the fire treatment on the steel), and you have yourself a collapsing structure.

If there were "nanothermite bombs" anywhere in the towers, they were unnecessary. The towers were brought down by the impact of the planes and the subsequent fires.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

That's called buckling. It's what happens when a material is subjected to a load greater than what its compression strength can withstand. In this case it wasn't the load that was getting heavier, it was the compression strength that was getting reduced as the fire started to warm work the steel which was in the process of recrystallizing. Remember, 400 degrees C is 30% of the melting point of steel, and that is when recrystallization begins to occur in earnest. Combine that with the enormous dynamic load of the airliner impact, which assuredly left residual strain and made the supports weaker, not stronger (in addition to removing parts of the fire treatment on the steel), and you have yourself a collapsing structure.

Dang -- guess you'd better send out an alert to all owners of oil heating stoves.

Have you ever tried soldering a wire to a large piece of metal? It isn't easy. Steel conducts heat quite well. How many BTU's of heat would it take to raise the many tons of steel in the central columns of the World Trade Center towers to melting point.

Do you have any references on your claims that steel will crystallize at 400 degrees C?

Are you aware that the main fires had pretty much been extinguished on Tower 2 and firefighters were walking around the floors where the plane impacted? Most of the jet fuel from the plane that hit Tower 2 blew out the side at the time of impact, because the plane didn't make a straight on, dead center, hit.

And what of Building 7, which had just limited fires on a couple of floors, before collapsing at free fall speeds?

And what of -all- other high rise steel frame buildings that have ever had major fires, some infernos lasting many hours, that have -never- collapsed into a cloud of dust?

Once again, do you have any idea how much energy it would take, applied in the space of about ten seconds (that's seriously enormous power) to convert that much tonnage of concrete and steel to micro-fine dust? No office furniture, no commodes or urinals, no computers or phones, no bone fragments bigger than an inch or two, nothing (other than the small percentage that got blown out the side at high velocity during that ten seconds and a few girders, nicely cutoff at a 45 degree angle, near the ground) survived the demolitions.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: British Institute of Nanotechnology: Military Involved in 9/11

That's called buckling.

Oh, and I wouldn't call this buckling. "Buckling" sounds to me like some kind of bending, not some kind of rapid conversion to fine dust.