Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

[metalman]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Here is what some of the bloggers said in reponse to the article and link you posted.

1. "Except for the Orwellian NewSpeak, nothing really new here, is there?"

2. "Yes, what Mariann says, as usual. Nothing really new here. Same old Same old. Except maybe now with zanier fonts and better music."

3. "Nothing new,for sure"

4. "Of course, if any of you'd like to actually READ the whole article being discussed before decrying it in your comments, you'll realize that it's being grossly mischaracterized here.
"what Sunstein is proposing is government infiltration of groups opposing prevailing policy"??!? No. Nowhere in the paper does it say anything about groups opposing prevailing policy; this is simply a paranoid extrapolation you've made yourself.

Seriously people, go read it. Estrin is trying to portray it as some kind of call-to-arms for the unleashing of spies onto the internet, when it's actually a fairly sedate examination of various responses to both extremist thought groups and conspiracy theorists.



Also, a little side point, it's an academic journal, okay? When they use phrases like "cognitive diversity" they're citing specific technical terminology within their field - so when you stick your own little bunny ears around it as if to suggest that it's an invented euphemism for something more sinister, that's just weak. (That goes too for the guy at the top who called it 'Newspeak')"


So, Jteb do the bloggers help you understand? Read #4 carefully

Cindy

the paper says nothing new. odd to see this argument on itulip. see any conspiracy theories here? nope... only forecasts of events that occur later.

here ya go...

#1 Public Enemy
9-11: Conspiracy
9-11: Coverup
9-11: Crime
9-11: Enemy Within
9-11: Unanswered Questions9-11: Who Benefits?
Abortion Industry/ Human Organ TradeAIDS
Al Martin
Alan Cantwell
Arnie Schwarzenegger
Art (sic)
Astrology
Avian Flu/ Anthrax Scam
Bad Law, Bad Judges
Beyond the Beyond
Bilderbergers
Biowarfare
Bush/ Clinton Crime FamilyChemtrails
Cheney/Halliburton Fraud
CIA (Criminals In Action)
CIA Drug Trafficking
CIA-Bush-Nazis
Corporate-Govt Fraud
Criminal Government
Culture (sic)
Dictatorship-Police State
DoJ
Dyncorp Crimes
Enron Money Laundry
FDA-Big Pharma Fraud-ConspiracyFederal Reserve Scam
Fraud (Financial)
Fraud (Military)
Genetic Engineering
GlobalismGuns/Control
History Recovered
Humor
Illuminati
Income Tax Slavery
Iran-Contra
Iraq (Nam)
Israel/ Zionism
Julian Robertson Lawsuit ArchivesKiller Spooks
Media LiarsMedia Whores
Michael Riconosciuto
Military Guinea Pigs
Military Tech
Mind Control
Moon Landing Scam
National ID Cards/ Microchips/ RFIDNew World Order
Osama bin Scapegoat
Pentagon Fraud
Phony "Conservatives"
Phony "Progressives"
Phony Drug War
Phony Global War on Terror (GWOT)Phony Religion
Phony War on 'Terrorism'
Princess Diana: Murder-CoverupPrisons/Slave Labor
PsyOps
Resist War
Ron Paul
Suppressed Science
USA PATRIOT Act (Treason)Vaccination Scam
Voodoo Science
Vote Fraud - USA
War on Gold
Whistleblower: James CasboltWhistleblower: Oswald LeWinterWhistleblower: Rodney StichWhistleblower: Sue Arrigo, M.D.

sad fact... 1 out of 9 is true!

[aaron]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Yeah - the GI Bill is a good deal. That's how I paid for my computer science degree, which served me well for several decades.

The other benefit that served me well was the dental benefits. You get one visit to the dentist after you get out, and whatever that dentist says you need is paid for. I got a mouthful of excellent quality caps that would probably cost me $50,000 these days. I still have most of them, several decades later. Hopefully your teeth are in better shape now than mine were at that time and this benefit is of no interest to you.

I've just started reading that "Conspiracy Theories" paper now. The arrogance of the opening page strikes me as outrageous. But I come at this from a very different place than the good Cindy above. I'm one of those conspiracy nutters that the paper is worried need to be protected from their own foolishness.

Aside to Cindy: usually when I see someone on a web forum recommend in good faith that someone else seek professional help, I tend to agree with that recommendation. I do not agree in this case however. I find jtabeb to be of sound mind and healthy psyche (as if a retired computer nerd has any business making such judgments based just on web posts .) I suspect it is simply a matter that your frame of reference is so far from jtabeb's that you are not able to imagine wherefrom he speaks.

That would not have happened to be in 2005? I think that is when I paid $50,000 in taxes.

From my hand to your mouth!

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

odd to see this argument on itulip. see any conspiracy theories here?

This is by the choice of the management of iTulip. It does not reflect one way or the other on the validity of such theories.

The naiveté of so many respectable and intelligent people is frustrating.

Each of us must continue to engage in a continued conversation on the circumstances of our lives, as an essential element of life itself. iTulip is blessed with the presence of a variety of some of the best, which is why I am grateful for my moments here. Someday, perhaps sooner or perhaps later, my frustrations will exceed my endurance and I will be asked to leave or I will choose to leave. Meanwhile, thanks to rest of you for the good conversation.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

That would not have happened to be in 2005? I think that is when I paid $50,000 in taxes.

From my hand to your mouth!

No - it happened sometime about thirty years earlier than that. But thanks for the generous thought .

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Thanks, DToM67, for reminding me of Zeitgeist. It's good.

[Shakespear]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Of course some conspiracy theories, under our definition, have turned out to be true. The Watergate hotel room used by Democratic National Committee was, in fact, bugged by Republican officials, operating at the behest of the White House. In the 1950s, the Central Intelligence Agency did, in fact, administer LSD and related drugs under Project MKULTRA, in an effort to investigate the possibility of “mind control.”
Operation Northwoods, a rumored plan by the Department of Defense to simulate acts of terrorism and to blame them on Cuba, really was proposed by high-level officials (though the plan never went into effect).13 In 1947, space aliens did, in fact, land in Roswell, New Mexico, and the government covered it all up. (Well, maybe not.) Our focus throughout is on false conspiracy theories, not true ones. Our ultimate goal is to explore how public officials might undermine such theories, and as a general rule, true accounts should not be undermined.

The problem in suggesting that there is nothing here is with the highlighted statement. Who will decide what is a True conspiracy and what is a False conspiracy? The Public Official? All examples given are from the sphere where the Public Official works :confused:

Ready for the Office of Conspiracy Verification?

[cindykimlisa]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Well I can see that this conversation is not going anywhere:p.

But before I bid you good-day, (And I mean that with no ill intent or disrespect, just ask Metalman, he will verify that YOU WOULD KNOW if I intended either) I think I will answer the above question as I think it is legitimate and as such deserves an answer.

I think that our ability to sustain our economic and military (and possibly our political) systems is very limited against the backdrop of the present economic/geopolitical and limited natural resource environment that we face. Our overt/covert operations are very visible to the marginally intelligent due to the free flow of information (and disinformation) that the internet allows. (Not good, as Brzezinski would say).

So as a person who has to rely on their critical thinking skills to teach what works (and to also keep me and my students ALIVE in the process), I have to constantly analyze what is and what is not (the definition of Situational Awareness, no).

"Situation awareness (SA) involves being aware of what is happening around you to understand how information, events, and your own actions will impact your goals and objectives, both now and in the near future".

When I use those skills to analyze the policy choices (as their potential for success or failure) I am not left with "A Warm Fuzzy" as they say.

I love this country very much. It has provided me with opportunities only limited by my own capabilities (or lack there of) and it is a great honor to serve and protect the people of this country, and it is a duty that I take GRAVELY. That is to say when I swore an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States" (which I have affirmed with each accession of rank" I approach it not only from the perspective of a military officer but that of a citizen as well. Civic duty, is a natural requirement of a functioning democracy as you well know. When the process of civic discourse is circumvented through the use of domestically disseminated unqualified information, society breaks down. The population becomes unable/unqualified to meaningfully add to the governance and policy process that the country must undergo to find it's way to workable, sustainable solutions.

To directly answer your question r.e. IRAs/401Ks, I think I have made it clear why I did that. But the point you raise about advocacy stems from my desire to not see my fellow citizens harmed financially when it is well within there means and ability to protect themselves and their financial interests. What kind of officer/citizen am I if I do not seek to protect the people who put their trust in me to do so?

To answer you last question, frankly, I'm just tired of the bullshit, to put it plainly. And I think that I have a meaningful contribution that I can make in the alt. energy field. And with the gracious opportunities provided by the new GI Bill, I hope to put that opportunity to good use (and hopefully served the people of this country and our military through the development of a sustainable source of liquid transport fuel that MORE than meets our current usage needs).

"Give me 1000 acres, and I'll give you a domestic Saudi Arabia" is the idea.

My underlying desire (more than anything) is that we the people of this country choose to do the RIGHT things for the RIGHT reasons. I only try to ensure that the discussion we have on how to get there is informed, vs ill-informed.

I hope that adequately answers your questions.

And with that,

I Bid you good day.

It answers my question

Thank you

Cindy

[cindykimlisa]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Yeah - the GI Bill is a good deal. That's how I paid for my computer science degree, which served me well for several decades.

The other benefit that served me well was the dental benefits. You get one visit to the dentist after you get out, and whatever that dentist says you need is paid for. I got a mouthful of excellent quality caps that would probably cost me $50,000 these days. I still have most of them, several decades later. Hopefully your teeth are in better shape now than mine were at that time and this benefit is of no interest to you.

I've just started reading that "Conspiracy Theories" paper now. The arrogance of the opening page strikes me as outrageous. But I come at this from a very different place than the good Cindy above. I'm one of those conspiracy nutters that the paper is worried need to be protected from their own foolishness.



Aside to Cindy: usually when I see someone on a web forum recommend in good faith that someone else seek professional help, I tend to agree with that recommendation. I do not agree in this case however. I find jtabeb to be of sound mind and healthy psyche (as if a retired computer nerd has any business making such judgments based just on web posts .) I suspect it is simply a matter that your frame of reference is so far from jtabeb's that you are not able to imagine wherefrom he speaks.

Thanks for your answer cow.

I actually do a lot of counseling.

Perhaps surprisingly I surmise I know mainly where JTEb is coming from and his answer helps. We obviously have different philospies but I have taken time to listen and try to understand his.

I use the same process he does (SA) as quoted below but arrive at different conclusions:

"So as a person who has to rely on their critical thinking skills to teach what works (and to also keep me and my students ALIVE in the process), I have to constantly analyze what is and what is not (the definition of Situational Awareness, no).

"Situation awareness (SA) involves being aware of what is happening around you to understand how information, events, and your own actions will impact your goals and objectives, both now and in the near future".

When I use those skills to analyze the policy choices (as their potential for success or failure) I am not left with "A Warm Fuzzy" as they say.' "

One issue of SA that the user must be careful of is his own educational, experiential and emotional points of reference. You must think about what you bring to the issue when you start analyzing the situation: A good example is WMD. If you want to Blow the hell out of Saddam then you can take a few words like WMD and make a trillion dollar war out of it. I think Bush and Paulsen had another notable SA with the economy: Remember Paulson wrote a two page memo saying he only was to be in charge of where $700,0000,0000,000 of tarp funds were to be spent? I did not agree with Bush on either of those SA issues.

JT and I are both using the same process and coming to different conclusion: I think he might be right for himself and maybe some others but not right for me and all others.

He is frustrated and tired of the "BS" and has worked for the Government until 2010. I would be angry if I spent my life doing the things he has done for me (Cindy) and our country and see where we are today. He is a noble man who "gets it."

In my own case from birth I alsways desired to be a career military officer. I ended up serving in JROTC in High School in the 1960's. I was constantly insulted by teachers, students and the public because of my uniform due to carryover from Vietnam. My dad was a WWII vet help me understand the ongoing zannieness in the govt in the 1970's as did others. I went into business and always "bought American" and tried to serve my country and help my fellow man in a noble way through my faith.

Along the way I met some great people who helped me think critically about our government - I don't think we can "beat em" but I have't "joined em" because there are other ways. A way for me is through my faith - I uses my resources and time to serve and help others. I give fiat currency to help poor people eat. I work with chilren and teach them. I help men and women with their grief and emotional care. I pray for people and visit them when they are sick. I am exactly like JTEB in that he is using the GI bill and I am using my understanding of other regulations to help myself to be in a position to help others.

He is obviously "pissed" and rightly so - He might be an idealist and the system seems to have surely failed him. He is a really bright guy. I have been really pissed a few times myself and a few sessions with a good counselor helped me understand myself better and then I could take my life and lifes work and ministry to the next level. Sometimes we need a little self-care along the way.

Peace

Cindy

Peace

Cindy

[jtabeb]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

[/b]



"So as a person who has to rely on their critical thinking skills to teach what works (and to also keep me and my students ALIVE in the process), I have to constantly analyze what is and what is not (the definition of Situational Awareness, no).

"Situation awareness (SA) involves being aware of what is happening around you to understand how information, events, and your own actions will impact your goals and objectives, both now and in the near future".

When I use those skills to analyze the policy choices (as their potential for success or failure) I am not left with "A Warm Fuzzy" as they say.' "

One issue of SA that the user must be careful of is his own educational, experiential and emotional points of reference. You must think about what you bring to the issue when you start analyzing the situation: A good example is WMD. If you want to Blow the hell out of Saddam then you can take a few words like WMD and make a trillion dollar war out of it. I think Bush and Paulsen had another notable SA with the economy: Remember Paulson wrote a two page memo saying he only was to be in charge of where $700,0000,0000,000 of tarp funds were to be spent? I did not agree with Bush on either of those SA issues.

Thank you Cindy for your kind words.

I must point out that in your above example, you are conflating SA with NASA (with respect to the Bush administration references).

NASA = N/A on the SA, otherwise known as "tumbleweed".

"Tumbleweed" = not knowing your own orientation/situation nor your end point.

I hope you do no take offense to the above clarification.

V/R

JT

[cindykimlisa]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Am reminded of the OSS or recent questionable security/intelligence programs like InfraGard

Anyone here have an idea what % of the populace is employed by the "intelligence industry" these days?

Cindy: Zeitgeist This is what I believe to be ministry. There, I've done my 'duty'. The rest is for you to decide.

Perhaps you will want to look up the translation of german word zeitgeist.

Thanks for the link; I am studying what they are about and they seem to have some egalitarian thoughts as a basis for their philosophy.

My first impression is there is truth in what they are saying but I do not know if it is real truth which is long lasting. I surmise what this is something like the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount and in the gospel of Luke (Truly idealistic) and I suspect it (zeitgeist) will ultimately morph later into something like the Catholic and Orthodox churches in the years 1000 to 1500. In the final solution of Zeitgeist there will have to be a heirachy who makes decisions about resources - bountiful and scarce.

If you think about it they already have two Deities or Buddahs or Spiritualists who seem to have a corner on truth - unfortunately their truth is not what I perceive as enduring real truth. There is a long history of people who have had a corner on truth and the new world order. Most last a generation or less - we'll have to see about zeitgeist.

From my own Christian experience with The Triune God my observation is that some of the Zeitgeist "truths" are untrue for me and many in the church and I am not talking dogma here - I am talking mystery and epiphany of the Triune God.

Peace,

Cindy

[cindykimlisa]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Thank you Cindy for your kind words.

I must point out that in your above example, you are conflating SA with NASA (with respect to the Bush administration references).

NASA = N/A on the SA, otherwise known as "tumbleweed".

"Tumbleweed" = not knowing your own orientation/situation nor your end point.

I hope you do no take offense to the above clarification.

V/R

JT

Thanks for the clarification JT - I really have no offense in anything you have said along the way. I have learned from you.

But a point of humor about sa and nasa.

In 1976 one of my bosses and I sat around a table talking about the possibility that a terrorist may take off in a plane from Washington national airport a few miles from the White house and crash into the White House or capitol. Back then we (sa/nasa) concluded that it just couldn't happen because the government surely had missles underground on the lawn which would rise up and knock down the plane out of the sky. Or at a minimum something on top of the white house to fire. It was important to his situation because he lived in the area.

Imagine me and that guy thinking back to that conversation on 9/12/2001 and even today. What is uncanny is I don't think we even had a defensive military aircraft in the sky when all of that started to happen on 9/11.

Cindy

[flintlock]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Aaron, The GI bill helped attract quality recruits for our nation's armed forces, without which you may not have had the opportunity to earn enough to pay $50,000 in taxes. We take US security for granted. I have a huge problem with government spending, but the GI bill is not on that list.

[aaron]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

Aaron, The GI bill helped attract quality recruits for our nation's armed forces, without which you may not have had the opportunity to earn enough to pay $50,000 in taxes. We take US security for granted. I have a huge problem with government spending, but the GI bill is not on that list.

The amount of money we spent in the recent wars is enough to pay for college education for every American FOREVER!


---------

And, on the subject of the GI bill. A relative of mine came back from 6 years in the military and started going to college .That GI Bill that was supposed to take care of him turned into the biggest nightmare. Basically, he was promised a college education and they did not come through for him. It was a big clusterfuck that messed up his life. (wife left him since he could not find a job without a college degree).

-------------

[chr5648]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

the paper says nothing new. odd to see this argument on itulip. see any conspiracy theories here? nope... only forecasts of events that occur later.

here ya go...

#1 Public Enemy
9-11: Conspiracy
9-11: Coverup
9-11: Crime
9-11: Enemy Within
9-11: Unanswered Questions9-11: Who Benefits?
Abortion Industry/ Human Organ TradeAIDS
Al Martin
Alan Cantwell
Arnie Schwarzenegger
Art (sic)
Astrology
Avian Flu/ Anthrax Scam
Bad Law, Bad Judges
Beyond the Beyond
Bilderbergers
Biowarfare
Bush/ Clinton Crime FamilyChemtrails
Cheney/Halliburton Fraud
CIA (Criminals In Action)
CIA Drug Trafficking
CIA-Bush-Nazis
Corporate-Govt Fraud
Criminal Government
Culture (sic)
Dictatorship-Police State
DoJ
Dyncorp Crimes
Enron Money Laundry
FDA-Big Pharma Fraud-ConspiracyFederal Reserve Scam
Fraud (Financial)
Fraud (Military)
Genetic Engineering
GlobalismGuns/Control
History Recovered
Humor
Illuminati
Income Tax Slavery
Iran-Contra
Iraq (Nam)
Israel/ Zionism
Julian Robertson Lawsuit ArchivesKiller Spooks
Media LiarsMedia Whores
Michael Riconosciuto
Military Guinea Pigs
Military Tech
Mind Control
Moon Landing Scam
National ID Cards/ Microchips/ RFIDNew World Order
Osama bin Scapegoat
Pentagon Fraud
Phony "Conservatives"
Phony "Progressives"
Phony Drug War
Phony Global War on Terror (GWOT)Phony Religion
Phony War on 'Terrorism'
Princess Diana: Murder-CoverupPrisons/Slave Labor
PsyOps
Resist War
Ron Paul
Suppressed Science
USA PATRIOT Act (Treason)Vaccination Scam
Voodoo Science
Vote Fraud - USA
War on Gold
Whistleblower: James CasboltWhistleblower: Oswald LeWinterWhistleblower: Rodney StichWhistleblower: Sue Arrigo, M.D.

sad fact... 1 out of 9 is true!

Exactly, some people have a psychological predisposition to believe in conspiracy theories. These theories fill up voids in their minds, helping them explain perceptual gaps in their thought processes.

How many here have made money or important decisions based on conspiracy theories? How many have made money or decisions on facts and evidence?

[flintlock]

Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

I am very much against the current war and how it is being handled. I think its lives and money down the drain. That said, I still think we need to take care of our service people. Benefits like the GI bill are not unlike the way a corporation will often pay out severance packages, even when they don't have to. They want to be able to attract good people in the future. A reputation for screwing over employees can hurt future recruiting efforts. I sincerely hope the government is not screwing over our service people like with your friend's experience.