News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

[Jim Nickerson]

Healthcare comparison chart from National Geographic.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...y_way_mor.html

Chart is hard to read. The line designating the US is the dark one at the top.

Ezra Klein: It's hard to constantly come up with new ways to say "America spends way, way, way, way, way more than any other country on health care." But we do! Just look at the National Geographic graph above, which puts per-person spending on one side of the chart and average life expectancy on the other. Or consider this: If we spent what Canada spends per person, our deficit problem would go away entirely. And Canada's per-person average is in a country where everybody is fully covered and so has full access to care. America's is in a country with 47 million uninsured, and so many people skimp on needed care. So the comparison is actually unfair to Canada.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Perhaps this chart is a bit better.

Nah, it is no better, go to Nat. Geo. and click to enlarge its chart.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Chart is hard to read. The line designating the US is the dark one at the top.

Here ya' go with the big easy on the eyes chart:

I had to upload the original image to my own website and link to it there. Apparently the iTulip forum software shrinks big images that you upload to it.

Wow -- I was about to complain that the "United States" was not even shown on this chart, until I found it named in the far upper left and painted in orange like Mexico, not blue like all the other nations.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Thanks PC, much, much better.

If the data that go into that chart are correct, it does prove the the title on which I worked so hard as one clearly descriptive of the thread's content.

I've quit reading about health care legislation, because whatever comes out of it will continue the current situation regarding quality of care and neglect on assessment of outcomes only at a higher cost. I guess that will make for another dramatic chart down the road several years.

[Rajiv]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Here is another way to look at it -- from - Healthcare spending and life expectancy: a comparison of graphs



The size of the bubble is the number of Dr. visits

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Thanks PC, much, much better.

You're welcome.

I've quit reading about health care legislation

I pretty much quit reading about it six months ago, stating at the time that no good could come of the health care effort, given the depth of regulatory and legislative capture of the U.S. government by big pharma, big insurance, big ag, ...

[loweyecue]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Nice graphics but is life expectancy an apples to apples comparison of the quality of health care? I think most people with regular jobs leads lives that are far more stressful under a lot more pressure here in the US than anywhere else in the world. I think this has a huge negative impact on overall health and absolutely brings down life expectancy.

Our per person expense may be sky high but lets not write it off as total crap unless we can make some adjustments to those numbers.:confused:

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Nice graphics but is life expectancy an apples to apples comparison of the quality of health care? I think most people with regular jobs leads lives that are far more stressful under a lot more pressure here in the US than anywhere else in the world. I think this has a huge negative impact on overall health and absolutely brings down life expectancy.

Our per person expense may be sky high but lets not write it off as total crap unless we can make some adjustments to those numbers.:confused:

It isn't clear what numbers you're suggesting be adjusted. If life here is more stressful, it might be because of the stress of fearing a personal or familial health problem or even a health crisis.

Out of curiosity, do you personally think that there is nothing wrong with US health care and its associated costs?

[LargoWinch]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Voted most daring thread title of the year. :eek:

[Ghent12]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Nice graphics but is life expectancy an apples to apples comparison of the quality of health care? I think most people with regular jobs leads lives that are far more stressful under a lot more pressure here in the US than anywhere else in the world. I think this has a huge negative impact on overall health and absolutely brings down life expectancy.

Our per person expense may be sky high but lets not write it off as total crap unless we can make some adjustments to those numbers.:confused:

I've said before that I think the life expectancy relationship to healthcare is also bunk. Life expectancy takes into consideration so many aspects that are completely unrelated to healthcare that no other conclusion could be logically reached. The obesity epidemic has only a quasi-relationship with healthcare, and the substantial gun violence has no relationship whatsoever, yet both of those negatively impact the life expectancy number.

Given that the US is on par with most industrialized nations in spite of significant non-healthcare problems, I think that the life expectancy rate in the US is actually more of a tribute to healthcare here than a detraction thereof.

[LargoWinch]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Given that the US is on par with most industrialized nations in spite of significant non-healthcare problems, I think that the life expectancy rate in the US is actually more of a tribute to healthcare here than a detraction thereof.

Interesting point of view. Well said.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

I've said before that I think the life expectancy relationship to healthcare is also bunk. Life expectancy takes into consideration so many aspects that are completely unrelated to healthcare that no other conclusion could be logically reached. The obesity epidemic has only a quasi-relationship with healthcare, and the substantial gun violence has no relationship whatsoever, yet both of those negatively impact the life expectancy number.

Given that the US is on par with most industrialized nations in spite of significant non-healthcare problems, I think that the life expectancy rate in the US is actually more of a tribute to healthcare here than a detraction thereof.

Out of curiosity, do you personally think that there is nothing wrong with US health care and its associated costs?

[chr5648]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Out of curiosity, do you personally think that there is nothing wrong with US health care and its associated costs?

Here is an article from poland, non translated because I could not find a translator that could do it.

http://www.polityka.pl/kraj/opinie/1...andardowa.read

let me give you a short summary. The NFZ (government socialized medicine authority) has run out of money, there are 2 types of cancer treatments, old ones and new ones, when the old ones don't work people need the new methods, they are expensive. People have to go to the bureaucrat to decide whether to get the treatment and when it will be done.

yesterday on the tv, I saw a guy between looked between 35-50 either pancreatic or stomach cancer, he said "I'm young and I want to live". Some bureaucrat is going to decide whether this guy will get the treatment to live.

As costly as our system here is, I would still rather get into debt and pay than be in a position like that, on tv saying to others "I'm young and I want to live". He wasn't the only one, tons of people waiting for a decision.

There is a human aspect to this, it is not just numbers and $$$ that count.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Here is another way to look at it -- from - Healthcare spending and life expectancy: a comparison of graphs

Nice, thanks. This shows a nice gentle correlation between spending and life expectancy (well, except for that one out-lier off to the right. What country is that again? I sure wouldn't want to use that country's health care system; they must be really messed up .)

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: News: US healthcare is totally fucked up as is the US.

Here is an article from poland, non translated because I could not find a translator that could do it.

http://www.polityka.pl/kraj/opinie/1...andardowa.read

let me give you a short summary. The NFZ (government socialized medicine authority) has run out of money, there are 2 types of cancer treatments, old ones and new ones, when the old ones don't work people need the new methods, they are expensive. People have to go to the bureaucrat to decide whether to get the treatment and when it will be done.

yesterday on the tv, I saw a guy between looked between 35-50 either pancreatic or stomach cancer, he said "I'm young and I want to live". Some bureaucrat is going to decide whether this guy will get the treatment to live.

As costly as our system here is, I would still rather get into debt and pay than be in a position like that, on tv saying to others "I'm young and I want to live". He wasn't the only one, tons of people waiting for a decision.

There is a human aspect to this, it is not just numbers and $$$ that count.

As I see it, human life is cheap (supply >>>> demand), medical care in the US isn't cheap or in some cases affordable except for the very rich because of entrenched problems with the system.

What would happen to the Pole if he were an American without insurance or with inadequate insurance? Whatever the decision regarding his life, it seems unlikely it would be a bureaucratic one.