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Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

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  • Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

    http://epw.senate.gov/hearing_statements.cfm?id=266543


    U.S. Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works
    Hearing Statements
    Date: 12/06/2006
    Statement of Dr. David Deming
    University of Oklahoma
    College of Earth and Energy
    Climate Change and the Media


    Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee, and distinguished guests, thank you for inviting me to testify today. I am a geologist and geophysicist. I have a bachelor's degree in geology from Indiana University, and a Ph.D in geophysics from the University of Utah. My field of specialization in geophysics is temperature and heat flow. In recent years, I have turned my studies to the history and philosophy of science. In 1995, I published a short paper in the academic journal Science. In that study, I reviewed how borehole temperature data recorded a warming of about one degree Celsius in North America over the last 100 to 150 years. The week the article appeared, I was contacted by a reporter for National Public Radio. He offered to interview me, but only if I would state that the warming was due to human activity. When I refused to do so, he hung up on me.


    I had another interesting experience around the time my paper in Science was published. I received an astonishing email from a major researcher in the area of climate change. He said, "We have to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period."

    The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was a time of unusually warm weather that began around 1000 AD and persisted until a cold period known as the "Little Ice Age" took hold in the 14th century. Warmer climate brought a remarkable flowering of prosperity, knowledge, and art to Europe during the High Middle Ages.

    The existence of the MWP had been recognized in the scientific literature for decades. But now it was a major embarrassment to those maintaining that the 20th century warming was truly anomalous. It had to be "gotten rid of."

    In 1769, Joseph Priestley warned that scientists overly attached to a favorite hypothesis would not hesitate to "warp the whole course of nature." In 1999, Michael Mann and his colleagues published a reconstruction of past temperature in which the MWP simply vanished. This unique estimate became known as the "hockey stick," because of the shape of the temperature graph.

    Normally in science, when you have a novel result that appears to overturn previous work, you have to demonstrate why the earlier work was wrong. But the work of Mann and his colleagues was initially accepted uncritically, even though it contradicted the results of more than 100 previous studies. Other researchers have since reaffirmed that the Medieval Warm Period was both warm and global in its extent.

    There is an overwhelming bias today in the media regarding the issue of global warming. In the past two years, this bias has bloomed into an irrational hysteria. Every natural disaster that occurs is now linked with global warming, no matter how tenuous or impossible the connection. As a result, the public has become vastly misinformed on this and other environmental issues.

    Earth's climate system is complex and poorly understood. But we do know that throughout human history, warmer temperatures have been associated with more stable climates and increased human health and prosperity. Colder temperatures have been correlated with climatic instability, famine, and increased human mortality.
    The amount of climatic warming that has taken place in the past 150 years is poorly constrained, and its cause--human or natural--is unknown. There is no sound scientific basis for predicting future climate change with any degree of certainty. If the climate does warm, it is likely to be beneficial to humanity rather than harmful. In my opinion, it would be foolish to establish national energy policy on the basis of misinformation and irrational hysteria.

  • #2
    Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

      The truth is out there.




      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

        I am sure it is:



        "In a scene from his upcoming movie, Al Gore demonstrates the concepts of global luke warming with a bowl of soup."

        http://www.crystalair.com/content.php?id=95200807012

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

          Hypothesize, research, analyze, publish in a peer reviewed journal. It's not that complicated.

          The first person that comes up with scientific evidence that the consensus is incorrect will simultaneously make a fortune and be hailed as a genius of his/her time.

          Likewise for the first first person to photograph a unicorn, record on video unqualified proof of the Loch Ness monster or find the carcass of a deceased Yeti.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

            Originally posted by WDCRob View Post
            Hypothesize, research, analyze, publish in a peer reviewed journal. It's not that complicated.

            The first person that comes up with scientific evidence that the consensus is incorrect will simultaneously make a fortune and be hailed as a genius of his/her time...
            You must be joking.

            The first [and second, and third, and...] person that comes up with scientific evidence that the prevailing wisdom is incorrect will be hailed as a modern day Galileo...and treated in much the same fashion...:p

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

              Here's a wonderful example of "mass collective delusion" in action (or was it a "conspiracy of vested interests"? I forget which is the more appropriate dismissive term). All these clucking governmental and agency chickens are foolishly and erroneously concluding the Himalayan glacier erosion across 50 years is A) actually occurring as opposed to an optical illusion, and B) bears even the remotest link to industrial activity. What an awesome display of "collective delusion" here, eh? Now they propose to take us all to the cleaners with their plans for collective action in mitigation of the 50 year slide. What a fraud!! ;) :rolleyes:

              It's enough to drive our various resident global-warming-skeptic "armadillos" to distraction!

              _____________________________________

              The high stakes of melting Himalayan glaciers




              • Story Highlights
              • Climate change has potential for conflict over water resources


              • Himalayan glaciers could disappear by 2035 according to IPCC


              • Conflict between countries possible; internal problems more likely
              • Holy river of Ganges could become seasonal and disrupt religious customs
              updated 5:25 a.m. EDT, Mon October 5, 2009


              By Reenita Malhotra / For CNN


              (CNN) -- The glaciers in the Himalayas are receding quicker than those in other parts of the world and could disappear altogether by 2035 according to the 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report.


              In retreat: the roof of the world is experiencing rapid summer melting.

              The result of this deglaciation could be conflict as Himalayan glacial runoff has an essential role in the economies, agriculture and even religions of the regions countries.

              The Himalayan glaciers form the world's largest ice body outside of the polar caps. Popularly known as the "Water Tower of Asia," they are the source of water for rivers that flow across the continent: the Indus River in Pakistan, the Brahmaputra that flows through Bangladesh, the Mekong that descends through Southeast Asia, the Irrawaddy in Myanmar, the Yellow and Yangtze rivers of China and a multitude of smaller rivers that flow through the Indo-Gangetic plains of Northern India.

              Satellite data from the Indian Space Applications Center, in Ahmedabad, India, indicates that from 1962 to 2004, more than 1,000 Himalayan glaciers have retreated by around 16 percent. According to the Chinese Academy of Sciences, China's glaciers have shrunk by 5 percent since 1950s.

              Dr. Vandana Shiva, an environmental activist, physicist and leader in the International Forum on Globalization, has just returned from a "Climate Yatra," a research journey to the Himalayas to study the impact of climate change and the glacial melt upon communities in Asia.

              "Himalayan rivers support nearly half of humanity," Dr. Shiva told CNN. "Everyone who depends on water from the Himalayas will be affected."

              One area of increasing concern for Shiva is flooding. "In Ladakh villages have already been washed away due to flash floods," she said.

              The situation has exacerbated the occurrence of Glacier Lake Outburst Floods (GLOFs). Impacts include loss of lives, domestic property, cultivable land, mountain infrastructure downstream, forced migration and long-term secondary environmental degradation.

              In the short term, the glacial retreat could cause not just an overflow of rivers within countries, but more significantly, a cross border overflow into countries that already have a history of tension.

              Rivers such as the Indus, Jhelum, Ravi, Bias and Sutlej rivers, are shared between India and Pakistan (that have fought five wars since 1947) while melt-water from the Tibetan glaciers supply both India and China (that fought a war over disputed Himalayan border territory in 1962).

              Both India and China are exploring opportunities to harness Himalayan waters for hydroelectric power projects, and while the initial melt promises to provide plenty of water for both sides, the loss of glaciers could lead to water shortages further in the future.

              Underground aquifers in Asia depend heavily on snow melt during the dry summer season, and long-term implications of the disappearance of Himalayan glaciers mean that access to water could become a serious political problem.

              According to Wendy Barnaby, editor of People and Science magazine, the United Nations issued a warning in February this year that climate change harbors the potential for serious conflicts over water.

              Watch how the U.S. military is preparing for potential climate change conflicts »

              Water-related conflicts have already been witnessed in other parts of the globe such as in the West Bank and in Darfur.

              According to Himanshu Thakkar of the South Asia Network on Dams, Rivers and People, almost 70 percent of the non-monsoon flows in almost all the Himalayan rivers come from glacier melt.

              International water security issues within Asia could be likely since the waters of the Indus, Ganges and the Brahmaptura basins flow into China in the upstream, and are shared across South Asia in the downstream.

              Dr. Shiva believes the situation will render major security issues, between India and China particularly, as flows reduce and demands intensify.

              In India, deglaciation poses the question of political and social upheaval within the country itself. According to Thakkar, the rate of retreat for the Gangotri glacier over the last three decades was more than three times the rate during the preceding 200 years.

              The Gangotri feeds the River Ganges, India's holiest river which has historically been a focal point for Hinduism. That the Ganges could become a seasonal river in the near future will throw a spanner in the works of Hindu religious customs, woven into the socio-economic life and culture of Northern India.

              Moreover, future water allocation that favors economics over religion could spark conflict in a society that already experiences religious and inter-communal strife.


              Even though some authorities in India do not consider the phenomenon to be particularly alarming, there is an increased understanding that the melting of Himalayan snows is real and needs to be taken seriously.

              China and India are expected to sign an agreement this month that will enable scientists to cooperate on cross border research with regard to the Himalayan glacial melt.
              Last edited by meechpod; October 11, 2009, 07:56 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

                Here's a chart from NOAA showing various studies that have plotted temperature change over the last 1300 years. The MWP is in no way the smoking gun that Deming makes it out to be. Temps today are at or above MWP levels and rising. See for yourself. I'm still sticking with the vast majority of the scientific community on this one.

                Jimmy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

                  Originally posted by jimmygu3
                  Here's a chart from NOAA showing various studies that have plotted temperature change over the last 1300 years. The MWP is in no way the smoking gun that Deming makes it out to be. Temps today are at or above MWP levels and rising. See for yourself. I'm still sticking with the vast majority of the scientific community on this one.
                  The problem with the 'reconstructions' is that the conditions in Greenland are clearly different than they are now.

                  If the Vikings were able to cross the Atlantic and establish settlements - that is clearly a different situation than today. Yet supposedly today's temperatures are higher.

                  To get an idea of the difference, look at today's Greenland climate graph vs. Iceland. Iceland has had people living on it since the MWP.

                  Greenland temps.gif

                  Iceland Temps.gif

                  Note the significantly longer growing season in Iceland: 6 months vs. at best 3 months for Greenland.

                  And Iceland isn't known for its crops.

                  And back again to what Deming notes: the NOAA's studies have converted the MWP to a blip to 'normal' - exactly what the 'removal of the MWP' states.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Deming

                    Interesting background on the author

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

                      Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Deming

                      Interesting background on the author
                      :p:p:p
                      Nice find! The guys basically a spokesperson for the oil industry.
                      He is an associate editor for the academic journals Petroleum Geoscience [3] and Ground Water [4], an adjunct faculty member at two conservative think tanks,...
                      Yes, peer review is what science is...NOT...
                      But more importantly I think you've hit the operative word right here: funding

                      http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249598,00.html
                      This sums up this entire, so called, debate. One side uses science journals (which is how science is conducted and the way science is advanced), and the other side uses quotes from people who represent oil journals and right wing think tanks, and a political fake news organization.

                      Maybe we can start a thread on UFO's. I know a couple from Arkansas who saw a UFO land in their backyard and then they were taken into the flying saucer and were probed in places where the sun doesn't shine. I can provide plenty of testimonials from some pretty well educated people, from many different publications, along with charts and graphs and photos, and you can't prove it didn't happen. But I can't provide a single supporting article in a scientific journal.

                      I don't view these threads as a debate over the conclusion drawn from the data concerning man made global warming, that debate was settled several years ago. I view these threads as a way to see how some reach the conclusions they do about how the world is working. What sources of information do they use? Is the data they use verifiable, is it pertinent to the topic, has it been taken out of context, has it been selectively chosen while ignoring more pertinent data...

                      Nope, it's not about global warming, it's about how real is our view of the world around us.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

                        Originally posted by we_are_toast
                        Nice find! The guys basically a spokesperson for the oil industry.
                        Sure, and what is Al Gore? The spokesman for the AGW panic industry.

                        As noted in other threads, Al Gore spearheads 10 times the spending of 'denier' oil companies by his own words.

                        And again, ad hominem attacks as opposed to actually looking at what is said.

                        Originally posted by we_are_toast
                        This sums up this entire, so called, debate. One side uses science journals (which is how science is conducted and the way science is advanced), and the other side uses quotes from people who represent oil journals and right wing think tanks, and a political fake news organization.
                        Yes, the 'use' of science journals: I've already posted in another thread the multiple revolts in the American Meteorological Society, the American Physical Society, and the American Chemical Society on how editors are presuming to speak for their respective constituencies.

                        I've also posted how leading AGW 'researchers' refuse to allow their data to be examined. Surely the sign of scientific interest in the truth?

                        And then there's the researcher in the video posted above: why are the AGW fanatics so reluctant to engage in real discourse over their findings? Why are those of opposing viewpoints demonized?

                        Another example of this:

                        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...-warmists.html

                        Dr Mitchell Taylor has been researching the status and management of polar bears in Canada and around the Arctic Circle for 30 years, as both an academic and a government employee. More than once since 2006 he has made headlines by insisting that polar bear numbers, far from decreasing, are much higher than they were 30 years ago. Of the 19 different bear populations, almost all are increasing or at optimum levels, only two have for local reasons modestly declined.
                        Dr Taylor agrees that the Arctic has been warming over the last 30 years. But he ascribes this not to rising levels of CO2 – as is dictated by the computer models of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and believed by his PBSG colleagues – but to currents bringing warm water into the Arctic from the Pacific and the effect of winds blowing in from the Bering Sea.

                        ...

                        Dr Taylor had obtained funding to attend this week's meeting of the PBSG, but this was voted down by its members because of his views on global warming. The chairman, Dr Andy Derocher, a former university pupil of Dr Taylor's, frankly explained in an email (which I was not sent by Dr Taylor) that his rejection had nothing to do with his undoubted expertise on polar bears: "it was the position you've taken on global warming that brought opposition".
                        Dr Taylor was told that his views running "counter to human-induced climate change are extremely unhelpful". His signing of the Manhattan Declaration – a statement by 500 scientists that the causes of climate change are not CO2 but natural, such as changes in the radiation of the sun and ocean currents – was "inconsistent with the position taken by the PBSG".
                        I love it - a polar bear researcher excluded from a polar bear research conference due to his not following the AGW party line? When he openly says there is warming? A fine example of the 'peer review' community at work no doubt.

                        What amuses me is how the AGW believers cannot seem to understand that a think tank is a think tank - whether it is paid for by Exxon or by the UN.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Who's the denier? "We've got to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period"

                          Media Ignore Al Gore’s Financial Ties to Global Warming

                          "Former Vice President Al Gore has built a Green money-making machine capable of eventually generating billions of dollars for investors, including himself, but he set it up so that the average Joe can't afford to play on Gore's terms. And the US portion is headed up by a former Gore staffer and fund raiser who previously ran afoul of both the FEC and the DOJ, before Janet Reno jumped in and shut down an investigation during the Clinton years."


                          http://newsbusters.org/node/11149

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