Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of socialism"

[Slimprofits]

too funny

http://www.rollcall.com/news/38015-1.html

LeRoy Schaffer, a St. Francis city council member, dressed in a tuxedo and top hat for the occasion. Shaffer got visibly emotional asking Bachmann about the future of health care and the role of special interests in Washington.

“I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of socialism,” Schaffer said, before being booed by the crowd.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

I don't find that quote as silly as it seems at first glance.

Yes, social security is a socialized retirement system.

However very little bureaucratic control is exercised via the system. They add up what you paid in each year, look that up in a table, and send you the check.

Compare that with the Federal Income Tax, which has more special cases and twists and turns and contraditions and inconsistencies than it is possible for any single human to know entirely, enforced by one of the more feared sources of domestic police control in the so-called free world.

People spend billions, hiring millions of experts from thousands of firms, to deal with income taxes. Most people manage their own social security account, choosing when and by what means to collect what they can, on their own behalf, with the few complications being caused more by interactions with the Infernal Revenue code than by complexities in the social security system itself.

The U.S. government exercises far, far less control over the particulars of any individuals financial dealings via social security than via the income tax.

I am more concerned with the proper locus of control than I am with the name on the check.

Attempts to discredit seniors objecting to "socialized medicine" on account of their (very enthusiastic) support for social security are (sometimes deliberate) distractions from more important issues, such as where the bulk of regulatory and management control of medical care and insurance should reside in our society.

[flintlock]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

I just find it funny that the most ardent opponents of ANY health care reform are those who are receiving the majority of their financial support from the government in the form of SS and medicare. All the time knowing full well they never paid into the "system" as much as they will take out, and also knowing full well that due to the failure of the current system, the rest of us will most likely never see anything close to the level of support they currently get. They know this yet their basic response is, "So what, screw the future generations, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie."

I don't favor the current health care reform plan either, but I suspect the blue hairs would bitch if Martians landed on Earth and offered to pay for it all. They see it as any dollar spent on the rest of us as a dollar that could be spent on them instead. Not all are like this of course, but you'd be surprised at the attitude that generation has come to have in the last 15 years or so. Its the "entitlement generation" and they dominate US politics more than many realize.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

I just find it funny that the most ardent opponents of ANY health care reform are those who are receiving the majority of their financial support from the government in the form of SS and medicare. All the time knowing full well they never paid into the "system" as much as they will take out, and also knowing full well that due to the failure of the current system, the rest of us will most likely never see anything close to the level of support they currently get. They know this yet their basic response is, "So what, screw the future generations, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie."

I don't favor the current health care reform plan either, but I suspect the blue hairs would bitch if Martians landed on Earth and offered to pay for it all. They see it as any dollar spent on the rest of us as a dollar that could be spent on them instead. Not all are like this of course, but you'd be surprised at the attitude that generation has come to have in the last 15 years or so. Its the "entitlement generation" and they dominate US politics more than many realize.

Flintlock, those are some pretty strong statements, which I suppose could be possibly true, but they are not true just because you wrote them.

Do you have any references that support those contentions?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

Flintlock, those are some pretty strong statements, which I suppose could be possibly true, but they are not true just because you wrote them.

Do you have any references that support those contentions?

It sounds to me like flintlock is more engaged in class warfare than in referenced and reasoned analysis .

[cindykimlisa]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

I just find it funny that the most ardent opponents of ANY health care reform are those who are receiving the majority of their financial support from the government in the form of SS and medicare. All the time knowing full well they never paid into the "system" as much as they will take out, and also knowing full well that due to the failure of the current system, the rest of us will most likely never see anything close to the level of support they currently get. They know this yet their basic response is, "So what, screw the future generations, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie."

I don't favor the current health care reform plan either, but I suspect the blue hairs would bitch if Martians landed on Earth and offered to pay for it all. They see it as any dollar spent on the rest of us as a dollar that could be spent on them instead. Not all are like this of course, but you'd be surprised at the attitude that generation has come to have in the last 15 years or so. Its the "entitlement generation" and they dominate US politics more than many realize.

Last night I watched a portion of a town hall meeting by a rep from Maryland.

Actually I found the "blue hairs" to be just the opposite of what you have stated.

Some bluehairs wanted to understand the basic concepts of the bill and were seeking understanding and clarifications about the differences in the bill compared to socialized healthcare in other countries.

Other bluehairs who seemed to be informed and apparently had read the bill were much more concerned with your concerns, Flintlock. The estimated costs for this Bill is X and it will probably be 10X in reality - "so where is the money going to come from," they asked. Others who understood the bill were equally insensed that the Bill would have to be paid for by their grandchildren.

For me, a very informed citizen, I am not nearly as concerned about the cost of Social Security and Medicare as I am concerned about the cost of Medicade - Nobody is talking about Medicade???

Why, you may ask -Answer: When the poor and middle class run out of money and it is necessary to "warehouse" them in a nursing home for years at a cost of $4000 per month - then who pays for that? - not Social security, Not Medicare but Medicade and it is already a bazillion people on Medicaid and many more to come! People can actually live five or more years in a nursing home on Medicade - Do the math and add to it the cost of additional health care costs!

Cindy

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

Cindy - I think that it is spelled Medicaid, not Medicade.

Good post. I agree. Thanks.

[flintlock]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

Flintlock, those are some pretty strong statements, which I suppose could be possibly true, but they are not true just because you wrote them.

Do you have any references that support those contentions?

Those have been my observations. Or are we not allowed to voice opinions anymore? I didn't say ALL opponents felt this way. I merely was bringing up a point that, while not politically correct, is in my opinion very real. If a politician wants to commit political suicide, he need merely mention reducing any benefit whatsoever to retirees. Why should everyone else tighten their belt and the retired not have to? That's all I'm saying.

Perhaps I should have said " SOME of the most ardent supporters...", but it gets a bit old trying to constantly couch every little word so as to avoid offending some particular person, gender, age group or political philosophy on this forum.:rolleyes: Geez you guys are uptight.

Cow, if you'll re-read my post, it talks about those receiving MOST of their financial support from the government. ie the POOR retirees. The ones who did NOT save for retirement. So how is that "class warfare?" Or are you suggesting my class warfare is aimed against the irresponsible?:rolleyes: Your statement makes no sense at all.

Also note I was talking about people who want NO REFORM AT ALL WHATSOEVER. I even put the word "ANY" in "ANY reform" in caps because I knew the troll police would be out looking for something to pounce on. So to be clear so you'll understand. I'm talking about seniors who A) receive medicare, SS payments, and have little else paying their way through life, AND B) Think out of control rising medical costs is not a problem and things are just hunky dory. If you think these people don't exist then you probably think its safe to dry your hair in the bath tub. Sorry, I don't need to prove it, its common knowledge.

[flintlock]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

Last night I watched a portion of a town hall meeting by a rep from Maryland.

Actually I found the "blue hairs" to be just the opposite of what you have stated.

Some bluehairs wanted to understand the basic concepts of the bill and were seeking understanding and clarifications about the differences in the bill compared to socialized healthcare in other countries.

Other bluehairs who seemed to be informed and apparently had read the bill were much more concerned with your concerns, Flintlock. The estimated costs for this Bill is X and it will probably be 10X in reality - "so where is the money going to come from," they asked. Others who understood the bill were equally insensed that the Bill would have to be paid for by their grandchildren.



Cindy

Well that is good to hear Cindy. But please note I'm not talking about the middle and upper class seniors that typically make up most of your politically active in events like this. I'm talking about the ones that go to the polls every year and vote out anyone who even suggests anything other than more medicare spending. The ones who elect congressmen like Charles Rangle, Nancy Pelosi, and others who pander to those always wanting more. And it cuts across party lines. I've seen it from some who call themselves conservatives. They want less government spending except when it comes to something that will affect their wallet. The same voters who thought Medicare D was a great idea, despite the fact it would bury an already strained Medicare system. Even the Neocon hero George Bush was for it. So its not about which party, or even what income bracket you belong to. Its between those who give a damn about this country and those who only care about themselves.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

I enjoyed reading your response to Jim and myself, flintlock. I sense some underlying dynamic whose nature elludes me, so I don't have a response in kind. That is, I'm unsure what to make of this. Good luck.

[c1ue]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

I had lunch with a good friend of mine (who is 61) last week.

We talked about lots of things including health care.

When the subject of Obama's big reform came up, he suddenly switched from a liberal California engineer into a (for him) foaming red stater.

After letting him calm down a bit, I asked why the possibility of a major reform of the health system via a public plan got him so hot.

His response was that Medicare is a program which millions of older folks (like him) have been paying into for years. To have a 'reform' program which snatches this entitlement away from those who have already paid into the system is unacceptable.

This is all the more interesting given that he has a lifetime medical plan via his 20 year service in the Navy.

From this viewpoint and of course from my well known view of Obama, I would have to agree with this sentiment.

When we then discussed the possible alternative put forth in the Atlantic article - i.e. compulsory catastrophic health insurance for all, the discussion got to the point where he agreed that this plan might be ok if it were not used as an excuse for killing Medicare.

Obviously this is idealistic, but it should be possible for the previously catastrophic health insurance portion of Medicare to be split off into said national program; the remaining portions could continue as before.

This type of split already exists with the Medicare supplemental insurance programs so is not even an untested thought experiment.

[flintlock]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

I enjoyed reading your response to Jim and myself, flintlock. I sense some underlying dynamic whose nature elludes me, so I don't have a response in kind. That is, I'm unsure what to make of this. Good luck.

It sounds to me like flintlock is more engaged in class warfare than in referenced and reasoned analysis

Gee, you accuse me of "class warfare", because you clearly misread a post of mine, then want to play coy as if you have no idea what I am talking about. :rolleyes:

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

Gee, you accuse me of "class warfare", because you clearly misread a post of mine, then want to play coy as if you have no idea what I am talking about. :rolleyes:

Sometimes when people claim ignorance, they're actually ignorant .

[kartius919]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

Interesting insight Clue. The idea of catastrophic care is not much of a change from what currently exists. Many in dire circumstances will go to the emergency room where they are required to attend to the patient. The bill if the patient can't pay is footed by the Federal government. A good portion who could not see a physician because of costs would still be unable to see a physician with only catastrophic care as most would have to pay out of pocket the initial expenses.

Although he has paid into the system for twenty years, as a whole the amount paid into does not remotely cover the cost of benefits received. It is not even an ideal system as so much resources are expended to care for a "relatively" unproductive class of Americans while those more productive and less costly to maintain go without any form of insurance until they are seriously ailing and require emergency care. Of course i'm not advocating eliminating medicare, but the nation requires an honest discussion of costs and benefits because as is, the system is unsustainable.

[jk]

Re: Quote of the day: "I’ll be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

catastrophic care insurance will just plow money into the most expensive and least "productive" area of medicine. more money for icu's and terminal cancer! another round of chemotherapy and radiation on the house! i'd rather see coverage for preventive care and chronic disease management, which would avert some of those catastrophes.