Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of socialism"

[c1ue]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

catastrophic care insurance will just plow money into the most expensive and least "productive" area of medicine. more money for icu's and terminal cancer! another round of chemotherapy and radiation on the house! i'd rather see coverage for preventive care and chronic disease management, which would avert some of those catastrophes.

JK,

I don't disagree with you in anything of what you say.

But you haven't thought this through: if there is a specific price tag associated with catastrophic health care, then there will shortly be specific guidelines for what constitutes acceptable expenses covered by said catastrophic health care.

As for preventative care and chronic disease management - the point is to reintroduce the concept of actions->consequences via the vehicle of out of pocket payments.

Certainly some type of lifetime care model would provide more systemic incentives for preventative care et al, but I think that's too great a change to our present system.

[jk]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

JK,

I don't disagree with you in anything of what you say.

But you haven't thought this through: if there is a specific price tag associated with catastrophic health care, then there will shortly be specific guidelines for what constitutes acceptable expenses covered by said catastrophic health care.

As for preventative care and chronic disease management - the point is to reintroduce the concept of actions->consequences via the vehicle of out of pocket payments.

Certainly some type of lifetime care model would provide more systemic incentives for preventative care et al, but I think that's too great a change to our present system.

catastrophic care is the hardest place to set limits. "unplug granny?"

[Ghent12]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

catastrophic care is the hardest place to set limits. "unplug granny?"

Perhaps so, and that would be a good place for the debate to be, rather than where it is currently. One of the primary causes of the cost crisis in American health care is the fact that health insurance covers almost everything rather than insuring against disaster. Your home-owner's insurance doesn't pay for a broken dishwasher or water heater, so why in the hell does health insurance pay for annual check-ups and run-of-the-mill ailments?

The for-profit and other types of health insurance are to blame, but not because they are for-profit. The entire system has been corrupted because it is already socialized in cost, for the most part. Yet the uninsured parts of health care, the elective procedures, are not suffering from a cost crisis. I wonder why?

[jk]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

Yet the uninsured parts of health care, the elective procedures, are not suffering from a cost crisis. I wonder why?

talked to any plastic surgeons lately?

[c1ue]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

catastrophic care is the hardest place to set limits. "unplug granny?"

Quite true, but on the other hand there will be a direct feedback between limits and out of pocket payments.

As opposed to today where there is no relationship whatsoever.

[Ghent12]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

talked to any plastic surgeons lately?

Well PRK surgery in Hawaii in 2006 when I had it done was going at a rate of roughly $2000 per eye if memory serves. Now there are some advertisements (albeit not entirely truthful) for LASIK at $499 per eye. I'm sure once they add all the corrective fees for customizing the procedure to less-than-ideal candidates, it will be over a $1000, but the average is probably nowhere near the $2000, let alone the double-digit percent increase each year that apparently occured in the regular health-care industry for insured procedures.

I haven't seen data on plastic surgeons, but I doubt that the price of a breast implant has doubled in 6 years like some other procedures.

[jk]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

Well PRK surgery in Hawaii in 2006 when I had it done was going at a rate of roughly $2000 per eye if memory serves. Now there are some advertisements (albeit not entirely truthful) for LASIK at $499 per eye. I'm sure once they add all the corrective fees for customizing the procedure to less-than-ideal candidates, it will be over a $1000, but the average is probably nowhere near the $2000, let alone the double-digit percent increase each year that apparently occured in the regular health-care industry for insured procedures.

I haven't seen data on plastic surgeons, but I doubt that the price of a breast implant has doubled in 6 years like some other procedures.

what do you suppose has happened to the price of the o.r. and anesthesia?

[Ghent12]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

what do you suppose has happened to the price of the o.r. and anesthesia?

The anesthesia itself probably cost more, as a shared asset among the insured health care industry. Why would the O.R. cost more?

[jk]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

The anesthesia itself probably cost more, as a shared asset among the insured health care industry. Why would the O.R. cost more?

because hospital costs are up across the board. why do you think an aspirin costs $12.00 when delivered to an inpatient? because the hospital amortizes all its costs - including delivering care to the uninsured and uncollectible bills- across all its services..

[Slimprofits]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

e. All the time knowing full well they never paid into the "system" as much as they will take out, and also knowing full well that due to the failure of the current system, the rest of us will most likely never see anything close to the level of support they currently get.

I thought the quote stood on it's own, but you nailed it.

I don't think it's a mindset based on so-called conservative economic principles.

[Ghent12]

Re: Quote of the day: "I値l be danged if I am going to give up my Social Security because of sociali

because hospital costs are up across the board. why do you think an aspirin costs $12.00 when delivered to an inpatient? because the hospital amortizes all its costs - including delivering care to the uninsured and uncollectible bills- across all its services..

Well the O.R. is not always a shared asset. I do not know the data regarding plastic surgery, but laser surgery for the eyes is usually done in a specialized clinic by a non-hospital entity. Mine was done in a military hospital, but from what I've seen since, that is more the exception than the rule.

Hospitals pass the cost on to everyone in just about every way they can. However, according to the CFO of a non-profit hospital, they get their final reimbursement for unpaid bills from the insured customers. Something about Medicare and Medicaid not being fully-funded, and a mandate to accept the uninsured as well... The money is ultimately derived from private insurance.