More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

[c1ue]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...-problems.html

From a Doctorate of Science, Astronautics via MIT...

But while trying to spread the word about the possibilities of space, Dr Aldrin said he was sceptical of climate change theories.

"I think the climate has been changing for billions of years," he said.

"If it's warming now, it may cool off later. I'm not in favour of just taking short-term isolated situations and depleting our resources to keep our climate just the way it is today.

"I'm not necessarily of the school that we are causing it all, I think the world is causing it."

http://newsblaze.com/story/200901061.../topstory.html

Schmitt, who earned a PhD from Harvard in geology, resigned in November from the Planetary Society, an international non-profit organization devoted to inspiring "the people of Earth to explore other worlds, understand our own, and seek life elsewhere." He is the twelfth person to walk on the Moon; as of 2008, of the nine living moonwalkers, he and his crewmate Eugene Cernan were the last two to walk there.

"As a geologist, I love Earth observations," Schmitt wrote, "But, it is ridiculous to tie this objective to a 'consensus' that humans are causing global warming when human experience, geologic data and history, and current cooling can argue otherwise. 'Consensus,' as many have said, merely represents the absence of definitive science. You know as well as I, the 'global warming scare' is being used as a political tool to increase government control over American lives, incomes and decision making..."

[we_are_toast]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

Meanwhile: on the round earth,

WASHINGTON — The changing global climate will pose profound strategic challenges to the United States in coming decades, raising the prospect of military intervention to deal with the effects of violent storms, drought, mass migration and pandemics, military and intelligence analysts say.

Such climate-induced crises could topple governments, feed terrorist movements or destabilize entire regions, say the analysts, experts at the Pentagon and intelligence agencies who for the first time are taking a serious look at the national security implications of climate change.
Recent war games and intelligence studies conclude that over the next 20 to 30 years, vulnerable regions, particularly sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and South and Southeast Asia, will face the prospect of food shortages, water crises and catastrophic flooding driven by climate change that could demand an American humanitarian relief or military response...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/sc...09climate.html

Luv those astronuts, but pushing for maned space exploration in an age of robotics is almost as crazy as being a denialist.

[WDCRob]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

Would you listen to a microbiologist if he said the same thing? A PhD psychologist?

The study of climate change is a fairly mature science at this poin - there's no reason to go rooting around in other fields for someone to tell you what they think.

[c1ue]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

Yes, Hansen with his astrophysics degree is equally an expert on climate modeling, but astronauts who have gotten respectively doctorates on space travel and geology surely have no relevant background.

How about these scientist's and their views?

“I am appalled at the state of discord in the field of climate science…There is no observational evidence that the addition of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions have caused any temperature perturbations in the atmosphere.” - Award-winning atmospheric scientist Dr. George T. Wolff, former member of the EPA’s Science Advisory Board, served on a committee of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and authored more than 90 peer-reviewed studies.

“Once again we have misleading climate change pronouncements being based on data errors, data errors detected by non-UN, non-IPCC, non-peer-reviewed external observers…This is exactly what happens when you base your arguments on ‘consensus science’ and not scientific fact.” - Professor Dr. Doug L. Hoffman, a mathematician, computer programmer, and engineer, who worked on environmental models and conducted research in molecular dynamics simulations. Hoffman co-authored the 2009 book, The Resilient Earth, described as“bringing a dose of skeptical reality to climate science and the global warming debate.”

“The questions are scientific, but the UN answers are political. The global warming debate is hardly about science.” - Computer Modeler and Engineer Allen Simmons, who worked 12 years with NASA's top climate scientists and wrote computer systems software for the world's first weather satellites and aided in the development of computer systems for polar orbiting satellites. Simmons co-authored the new skeptical book The Resilient Earth.

Belief in climate models compared to “ancient astrology”… "I believe the anthropogenic (man-made) effect for climate change is still only one of the hypotheses to explain the variability of climate.” - Award-winning Japanese Physicist Dr. Kanya Kusano, program director of the Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology who’s research “focuses on the immaturity of simulation work cited in support of the theory of anthropogenic climate change.” compared climate models to “ancient astrology.”

“The recent ‘panic’ to control GHG (greenhouse gas) emissions and billions of dollars being dedicated for the task has me deeply concerned that US, and other countries are spending precious global funds to stop global warming, when it is primarily being driven by natural forcing mechanisms.” - Climatologist and Paloeclimate researcher Dr. Diane Douglas, who has authored or edited over 200 technical reports, specialized in the reconstruction of a variety of proxy data and has worked for the Department of Energy and conducted research for the Arizona State Office of Climatology to investigate the Little Ice Age.

“Temperature measurements show that the [climate model-predicted mid-troposphere] hot zone is non-existent. This is more than sufficient to invalidate global climate models and projections made with them!”- UN IPCC Scientist Dr. Steven M. Japar, a PhD atmospheric chemist who was part of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Second (1995) and Third (2001) Assessment Reports, and has authored 83 peer-reviewed publications and in the areas of climate change, atmospheric chemistry, air pollutions and vehicle emissions.

“The cause of these global changes is fundamentally due to the Sun and its effect on the Earth as it moves about in its orbit. Not from man-made activities.” - Retired Award Winning NASA Atmospheric Scientist Dr. William W. Vaughan, recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Medal, a former Division Chief of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and author more than 100 refereed journal articles, monographs, and papers.

“Unfortunately, Climate Science has become Political Science…It is tragic that some perhaps well-meaning but politically motivated scientists who should know better have whipped up a global frenzy about a phenomena which is statistically questionable at best.” - Award-Winning Princeton University Physicist Dr. Robert H. Austin, who has published 170 scientific papers, was elected a member of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and is the current Chair of the U.S. Liaison Committee of the International Union of Pure and Applied Physics. Austin, who won the 2005 Edgar Lilienfeld Prize of the American Physical Society

“If global cooling will come soon -- scientists will lose trust .” - Award-winning Japanese Geologist Dr. Shigenori Maruyama, a professor at the Tokyo Institute of Technology’s Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences who has authored more than 125 scientific publications, was decorated with the Medal of Honor with Purple Ribbon for a major contribution in the field of geology, specializes in the geological evidence of prehistoric climate change.
“Observe which side resorts to the most vociferous name-calling and you are likely to have identified the side with the weaker argument and they know it.” - Materials and Research Physicist Dr. Charles R. Anderson, a former Department of Navy research physicist who has published more than 25 scientific papers specializes in spectroscopy, microscopy, thermal analysis, mass spectroscopy, and surface chemistry.

“I appreciate the opportunity to add my name to those who disagree that global warming is man-made…Hansen embarrassed NASA by coming out with his claims of global warming.” - Retired senior NASA atmospheric scientist Dr. John S. Theon, a former supervisor of NASA’s James Hansen, and the former Chief of the Climate Processes Research Program at NASA Headquarters and former Chief of the Atmospheric Dynamics & Radiation Branch.
“I am pleased to be considered a ‘denier’ in this cause if this puts me in the class with those who defied prevailing ‘scientific consensus’ that the earth was flat and that the earth was the not the center of the universe.” – Retired U.S. Air Force (USAF) Meteorologist William “Bill” Lyons, of the USAF’s Global Weather Central at Strategic Air Command.

“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus [which] is the business of politics. . . . What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.’” - Atmospheric Scientist Timothy R. Minnich, who has more than 30 years experience in the design and management of a wide range of air quality investigations for industry and government, is a past member of the American Meteorological Society and specializes in issues like acid rain and ozone, and has authored or co-authored numerous technical publications and reports.

“Based on the laws of physics, the effect on temperature of man’s contribution to atmospheric CO2 levels is minuscule and indiscernible from the natural variability caused in large part by changes in solar energy output.” - Atmospheric Scientist Robert L. Scotto, who has more than 30 years air quality consulting experience, served as a manager for an EPA Superfund contract and is co-founder of Minnich and Scotto, Inc., a full-service air quality consulting firm. He also is a past member of the American Meteorological Society (AMS). Scotto, a meteorologist who has authored or co-authored numerous technical publications and reports.

“My dear colleague [NASA’s James] Hansen, I believe, has finally gone off the deep end... The global warming ‘time bomb,’ ‘disastrous climate changes that spiral dynamically out of humanity's control.’ These are the words of an apocalyptic prophet, not a rational scientist.” - Chemist Dr. Nicholas Drapela of the faculty of Oregon State University Chemistry Department

“There is no credible evidence of the current exceptional global warming trumpeted by the IPCC…The IPCC is no longer behaving as an investigative scientific organization or pretending to be one…Their leaders betrayed the trust of the world community.” - Chemist Dr. Grant Miles, author of numerous scientific publications who was elected to a Fellowship of the Royal Institute of Chemistry, was a member of UK Atomic Energy Authority Chemical Separation Plant Committee.

[tacito]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

Well, the opinion of an astronaut about climate change is very convincing because they have a highly elevated point of view. However, there are serious doubts about the intelligence of astronauts, because all of them evolved from monkeys.

Arguments "ad hominem" are a waste of time :-).

In my opinion, nobody knows the causes of climante change. I haven't heard any theory about climate that explains glatiations and the different periods of climate in historic times. Are the computer models the theories? For me this is ok. If any of them can show a simulation that can explain the past data, we could have a prediction to compare to current data.

Maybe the climate is changing and the man is the cause, I'm no sure it's not. But I'm pretty sure that our beloved scientists don't have any idea.

[metalman]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

Well, the opinion of an astronaut about climate change is very convincing because they have a highly elevated point of view. However, there are serious doubts about the intelligence of astronauts, because all of them evolved from monkeys.

Arguments "ad hominem" are a waste of time :-).

In my opinion, nobody knows the causes of climante change. I haven't heard any theory about climate that explains glatiations and the different periods of climate in historic times. Are the computer models the theories? For me this is ok. If any of them can show a simulation that can explain the past data, we could have a prediction to compare to current data.

Maybe the climate is changing and the man is the cause, I'm no sure it's not. But I'm pretty sure that our beloved scientists don't have any idea.

welcome! great first post.

' there are serious doubts about the intelligence of astronauts, because all of them evolved from monkeys.'

it comes down to 4 questions that must be definitively answered before a conclusion can be drawn re human vs natural global warming...

1. are temperatures rising in an anomalous way over a relevant time sample? (1billion vs 500 million yrs, etc)

if yes, then...

2. what factors are contributing the most to cause rising global temperatures? (CO2, etc)

if known, then...

3. what portion of these man made and what portion naturally occurring?

if known, then...

4. can the man made factors and the warming be not only correlated but causation proven?

absent a scientific proof of all 4 of the above, it's all so much blah, blah, blah...

doesn't mean that global warming isn't real and isn't man made and we aren't all going to drown in a steamy soup of hot putrid sea water, but it does mean the argument will go in circles either until we are or aren't.

[medved]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

The study of climate change is a fairly mature science at this point - there's no reason to go rooting around in other fields for someone to tell you what they think.

It is just as mature as economics, and we all know how good are the expert economists in their theories and predictions (CLUELESS:rolleyes.

I remain a complete agnostic on the subject of global warming. I don't have enough understanding even to read the long and thoughtful iTulip posts on the matter. I would give the experts more time to discuss the issues and not rush to create huge government programs.

Remaining a clueless electrical engineer I would like to rely on the media to inform me about the progress in this matter. However, what I see is very troubling. The media decided long ago, who is right. You mostly hear one side of the discussion. Just like the financial media always supports the bulls and whatever crap you hear from the gov’t, and makes the bears look like idiots. I have almost instant contrarian reflex against this situation. If the media pushes something in one voice, be careful, this is not a valid discourse.

Besides, some “experts” look outright suspicious, e.g. a NASA expert Mr. Hansen supported and promoted by Mr. Soros (http://ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles...75526219598836). Of course, Mr. Soros has no political agenda!(:rolleyes

I am sure we can find mirror equivalents on the other side of the issue. This is not the kind of discussion that leads to reasonable decision making. We have enough politicized issues already, no need to add one more, much less promote massive gov't involvement.

[doom&gloom]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

I love the 'climate change' worshippers, they are just so... soo... accepting. Not.

Follow the money. The Crap n' Tax bill would have almost NO impact on what
the US puts out, but plenty of impact on YOUR wallet. The big bankers would
stand to profit, as would the Gore-acle himself.

I have as much belief in Glow-ball Warming as I do in the Easter Bunny. And
if you think the BIG Banks and the Gore-acle really give a shit about you, you
are the fool in the game.

Quit the Church of Climate Change and free your mind.

[WDCRob]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

I'll stick to the scientists, thanks.

The ones that do research on climate change, submit that research for peer review and then publish their findings for the world to have a go at.

[metalman]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

I'll stick to the scientists, thanks.

The ones that do research on climate change, submit that research for peer review and then publish their findings for the world to have a go at.

who needs scientists when we have bloggers and glen beck?

[flintlock]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

From a Doctorate of Science, Astronautics via MIT...

Oh come on, they give those away like candy these days!

[flintlock]

Re: More knuckle-draggers skeptical of man made global warming: astronaut doctorates

http://community.detnews.com/apps/bl...hp?blogid=2041

"Climate change is very real," she confessed as she embraced cap and trade's massive tax increase on Michigan industry - at the same time claiming, against all the evidence, that it would not lead to an increase in manufacturing costs or energy prices. "Global warming creates volatility. I feel it when I'm flying. The storms are more volatile. We are paying the price in more hurricanes and tornadoes."