How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

[plinko]

Hey all,

I'm starting to go nuts managing a number of investment accounts, so I'm spending some time this weekend creating some system of accounting for all assets that is:

1) Flexible in case I decide to ever move to another country
2) Easy to update (I don't want to spend more than an hour updating the sheet)
3) Ability to write my thoughts - e.g. my investment "thesis"!
4) Ability to tag investment classes and generate an asset allocation summary (i.e. LargoWinch's updates in "How is one ituliper invested?" http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...t=2259&page=17)

It does not necessarily have to automate gathering investment account data, it would be a nice feature though. I DO want the accounting and tagging of personal expenditures fairly automated.

Also, I eventually want this system to plug into another spreadsheet to serve as a portfolio modeling tool.

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My plan so far:

1) Create my own excel spreadsheet, keeping each investment account on each spreadsheet "sheet", then having a summary "sheet" that links to the totals of this. Then use excel's enumerator ability (if there is one) to tag into a number of classes (this will have to link into a list).

2) Keep a mint.com account just to help keep track of expenses, and ONLY expenses (i.e. food, rent, condoms, etc.). I've tested mint before, and it's a great, well-intentioned tool for expenditures, but I've had issues with it obtaining investment acct. data before.

Anyways, anyone here know if this is a reasonable route to take?
Should I consider using some of the more "money-oriented" packages such as Quicken/MS Money/Gnucash?

I'm hoping some of the folks from the "how one ituliper is invested" thread will chime in (paging LargoWinch & Jim Nickerson)

UPDATE: I've started to look into GNUCash again, It has some ability to automate accounts via perl scripts (I oughta learn perl as a job skill anyways)

[LargoWinch]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

plinko, I have developed a basic Excel spreadsheet for myself which includes the following:

a) Tracking of return monthly / annually

b) Opens with a "summary" tab of all asset classes

c) Allocation within each asset class ($nominal and pie charts in %)

d) Target for each asset class and each sub-class as well as deviation from target for all ($nominal and % for all)

e) RRSP tracking (401K equivalent in Canada)

f) Interest return on GICs (short-term bonds) automated via current date input

g) model accounts for leverage of leveraged ETF (ex. HOU.TO a 2X crude ETF) in allocation model i.e. investment of $10K in a 2X ETF counts as $10K in the summary of asset but as $20K when calculating allocation %)

h) and the best of all ...the iTulip reporting tab in technicolor!


Joking aside, I assume it would take someone just a few hours in MS Excel to achieve same. There are no macros, it is quite simple to modify and manage.

However, it is also very much tailored for my needs, which may not apply to your situation. Reading your query, several tabs would still need to be created by yourself.

How about we do this: lets wait if Jim responds with a better solution. If Jim does not respond and you are somehow interested, I will send you a blank copy (if you promise to keep it for your personal use) so you do not have to start from scratch.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

Should I consider using some of the more "money-oriented" packages such as Quicken/MS Money/Gnucash?

I've been using Quicken for the last decade, swearing I'd get off it when I could. They clearly spend more money on coding bugs and coding changes to the bank interfaces to force upgrades and on marketing than what they spend on quality software development. Besides, Quicken is almost the last Windows program I run, and I'd love to turn off my Windows box for the last time (I'm a deep magic Linux hacker.) Now that I have radically downsized and simplified my financial affairs, it's time I made the move off Quicken.

I've tried just about every money manager program out there since DOS 3.0 days, as well as written my own little spreadsheets to do it.

My "short list" (just a couple hundred items on it ;)) of things to do real soon now includes converting to MoneyDance. I've been running it on test data now and then for the last year, and it's quite reasonable, including support for downloading transactions from most banks, billpay, and support for tracking investment portfolios. It even has an internal Python programming interface, which as you might guess from my screen name here, is something I might make use of. It runs on Mac, Windows, Linux, BSD, OS/2, Solaris and lord knows what else. It offers extensive multi-currency support and translations into Spanish, German, French, Korean, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, and Norwegian.

The primary developer of MoneyDance is Sean Reilly. He's been at it for about ten years now and from what I can tell is a capable and honest chap.

[plinko]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

Thanks for the information all.

I'm giving up on GNUCash after having it crash on me, and getting very confused in trying to setup any online OFX accounting with it. I really wanted to like it, but there are more interesting things I can spend all day tinkering with.

I tried moneydance today though, and it seems to do the basics well. I will say the usability of it still takes a tiny bit of getting used to (ex: on the ofx login page, saying "OK" after entering in your password causes a delay, then a listing of which account you want to use, which I missed the first few times because I hit the Next button too quickly. Regardless, it will be nice to use when it comes out with a companion iphone/ipod touch app for small things.

All of the above though, is minutiae compared to my real goals, which is keeping track of investments. For this, I am going to force myself back to create an excel spreadsheet today.

[plinko]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

funny, I got lazy at some point and haven't invested very well, I'm now restarting everything and trying to build a "lazy web 2.0 twenty something" financial system so I can focus on building a good career and lifestyle for myself.

I'm too lazy to update / maintain a spreadsheet, so I'm caving into the easy "give up all your bank account login" tools, that is using mint and more importantly, wikinvest.com . wikinvest seems pretty nice, it gives you a nice synced portfolio screen across multiple brokerages. It's basically a more investing-oriented mint.com.

Plan to just use google finance for stock screening, although more trader-types may like robotdough.com

Banking: screw local credit unions, I want convenience. going with ramit sethi's checking account suggestions: schwab and ing, at least until banksimple finally arrives.

My big challenge now is setting up an allocation for the uncertainty era, and figuring out how to fix my lifestyle during it. I don't own much, am single, and would rather focus on building a business than priding over home ownership. That said, at 27, I'm a bit more yearning for a comfortable place to live.

[c1ue]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

The way things are, I'd suggest the following order:

1) Save money. Don't try to get too crazy, but do try reasonably hard to occasionally have fun while socking away as much as you can.

2) Keep your eye on your objective. If you want to start a business, start learning all the areas in which you'll need to have some understanding in order to have a chance to start a successful business.

3) Besides the operational stuff above: incorporation, business licenses, taxes, regulations, accounting, marketing, etc etc, you really need to think hard about what/where this business is going to be.

4) If you have time/energy after doing all the above, then think about how to grow your money. Note this is lower in priority than is typical for most iTulipers who are older and safeguarding their retirement funds.

As a youngster, especially one with an eye towards entrepreneurship, you have to think/act differently.

1) is because the biggest obstacle to most business' success is lack of capital. Lack of capital means you either have to give up too much to the bank, are too financially constrained to effectively market, are unable to survive the 6 months to 2 years in order for the business to get going, or are unable to do larger deals because of capital limitations. There are plenty more reasons, but these are just a few examples.

2) is because while there is a huge market for offering these services - frankly you don't need professional help for the vast majority of them, at least starting out. For example: setting up a corporation can be done without a lawyer - cost to you might be $500 whereas the lawyer route would be $2000 or more. Not having some familiarity with these areas also makes you vulnerable should the service provider be incompetent.

3) is also very key. What is the business you want to run, why is it going to be successful, what are realistic short and medium term objectives, what makes you running that business different than 1000 other people, etc etc. Entry barriers or exclusivity is also vital.

[plinko]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

Thanks c1ue.

Definately one problem I've had reading this site is not getting carried away for more speculative investing.

Everyone says you should take risks while younger, I want to make those risks more in what I do for active income, not passive investment. So far I haven't been living that way, just been working the same job for 6 years and saving, but not taking risks in building other streams of income.

As far as starting a business, I want to just become a software micropreneur for now, with enough of an income stream to not go nuts if I quit my job to make a career change.

[c1ue]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

Definately one problem I've had reading this site is not getting carried away for more speculative investing.

True, but keep in mind that most iTulipers are retirees or much older people.

Secondly entrepreneurship is not investing, unless perhaps you are big/connected enough to do angel or VC investment.

Everyone says you should take risks while younger, I want to make those risks more in what I do for active income, not passive investment. So far I haven't been living that way, just been working the same job for 6 years and saving, but not taking risks in building other streams of income.

It isn't that you can't take risks when you're older.

It is that doing so when you're married and/or have young children, and/or have children going to private school/private college, is pretty friggin' difficult. Not just time wise, but just being able to cut down your cash flow as to not go 'all in' on your shot. And if you fail - as is where the odds lie - it is harder to recover.

As far as starting a business, I want to just become a software micropreneur for now, with enough of an income stream to not go nuts if I quit my job to make a career change.

There is nothing wrong with what you are looking to do, but you've got to focus and find out what you can create and protect.

Keep in mind that if your goal is just to elevate your profile - it is much easier to go into a semi-specialty field, gain expertise, maybe even sell a small startup, and then become a consultant. The expertise/startup sale lets you become visible above and beyond outsource/offshored competitors, and the semi-specialty field keeps down the equivalent (or higher) level competitors.

This is different however than going full entrepreneur. The beginning is the same, but the outcomes are significantly different.

I won't pretend to be an expert; I am an engineer doing entrepreneurship but am much more business focused. However, I do have hands-on and very close friends/ex-coworkers in both paths. I'd be happy to pass on the experiences that I've seen if you are interested, offline.

[aaron]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

True, but keep in mind that most iTulipers are retirees or much older people.

Secondly entrepreneurship is not investing, unless perhaps you are big/connected enough to do angel or VC investment.



It isn't that you can't take risks when you're older.

It is that doing so when you're married and/or have young children, and/or have children going to private school/private college, is pretty friggin' difficult. Not just time wise, but just being able to cut down your cash flow as to not go 'all in' on your shot. And if you fail - as is where the odds lie - it is harder to recover.



There is nothing wrong with what you are looking to do, but you've got to focus and find out what you can create and protect.

Keep in mind that if your goal is just to elevate your profile - it is much easier to go into a semi-specialty field, gain expertise, maybe even sell a small startup, and then become a consultant. The expertise/startup sale lets you become visible above and beyond outsource/offshored competitors, and the semi-specialty field keeps down the equivalent (or higher) level competitors.

This is different however than going full entrepreneur. The beginning is the same, but the outcomes are significantly different.

I won't pretend to be an expert; I am an engineer doing entrepreneurship but am much more business focused. However, I do have hands-on and very close friends/ex-coworkers in both paths. I'd be happy to pass on the experiences that I've seen if you are interested, offline.

We need a itulip select forum for this. I would love to talk business and entrepreneurship. It would be really cool to bounce ideas off of each other.

[c1ue]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

We need a itulip select forum for this. I would love to talk business and entrepreneurship. It would be really cool to bounce ideas off of each other.

That would exclude me then...

[aaron]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

Shoot.
It might be worth the money.

The problem is, I would like to bounce ideas off like-minded people, but I do not want it all read by the other thousands of people. The spam would probably be hard to control as well. Maybe iTulip could put up an invite-only forum? But, I guess there might end up being problems with paying members not being invited fast enough, etc.

It is sort of like those social networking ideals I bet... I would like to talk to people I trust. In an ideal world, that would be face to face. We can all agree, the world is less than ideal now.

I trust most long time, posters here even when I disagree with many of their ideas at times. I feel like I get where they are coming from. I feel like I could open up in the right environment.

Anyway, I never know where I am on this site. I forget there are paid forums and those that are not paid. You may be only getting half the ideas then. I paid from the first day I got here. For the amount of time I spend here (entertainment?), it is extremely cheap.

[c1ue]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

It might be worth the money.

I am sure it is worth the money, but I have a general policy of never paying for investment advice.

That, and I spend lots of time here, hopefully as a contributor.

[plinko]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

I am sure it is worth the money, but I have a general policy of never paying for investment advice.

That, and I spend lots of time here, hopefully as a contributor.

Pretty fascinating to hear this. While I've been skeptical of paying for investment advice, I wouldn't mind paying an open-minded financial advisor to let me give him my thoughts on markets and get him to make my money take action in those areas. I'm not sure such a person/service exists though, but I honestly hate logging into investment accounts and figuring out how to set everything up. and yes, I'm saying this as a 20-something engineer who writes software for a living.

As far as possibly having an entrepreneurial section at itulip, I wouldn't mind having one where discuss more about the progress of a TECI economy or otherwise. As far as worrying about disclosing information, I figure it'd be up to the discretion of the writer regardless of whether it's behind paywall or not. That said, I recently signed up for a trial of a paid entrepreneur forum, and follow some bloggers who have been really transparent about developing their businesses. It's been pretty shocking yet informational to see how much goes into running a business, and how much can be done to delegate and hack around those tasks.

[c1ue]

Re: How ONE iTuliper keeps track of their money?

That said, I recently signed up for a trial of a paid entrepreneur forum, and follow some bloggers who have been really transparent about developing their businesses.

If I may, could you post the name of this site.

I've looked at a few - valuable but unfortunately the path I'm taking is 90 degrees different than all of the ones I've seen, as is my business philosophy.